On 7/8/2018 at 1:45 PM, TheHumanHydra said:

My brother and a friend are planning to start a hybrid WotC Saga/X-Wing campaign this, I'll let you know how it goes if I remember! As far as I know, it's just Saga for ground, X-Wing for space. We've been warned it will be bloody.

The first session went well. It was less than two hours long. Beforehand, we had created two Saga characters each and the GM had created pilot abilities for them. We had a bit of pure RP on the shuttle ride in to our first posting and were just settling in when ordered to scramble when mercs attacked the station. We fought our way into the hangar using the Saga ground combat rules (a particularly heroic NPC trooper was involved whom I christened Johnson). One PC fell and had to use a Force point to survive. Then we screamed out of the hangar in our TIEs to face four Z-95s and a fleeing HWK transport, a man down but with two turrets for support. Despite some questionable flying on our parts, we downed one Headhunter (rather, the turrets did) and drove off the enemy. We were told there was a 15% chance of death if we were forced to eject near the friendly station and that it would be much higher farther afield. A fun session, and the cinematic image of fighting into the hangar and then out of it was pretty cool!

On 7/7/2018 at 9:36 AM, mcintma said:

This brings back fond memories of Star Warriors , the WEG SW ship game (played on a hex-map). It was a super fun game, and integrated directly with the RPG.

I think if I we're going to use the WEG rules for an RPG campaign then I would get some hex maps with larger hexes and use the minis only from X-Wing to play Star Warriors as the space combat system. For the reasons mcintma listed. Probably a far simpler task than trying to integrate the actual X-Wing rules with the WEG system. And Star Warriors was a really fun game on its own.

Jim

On 7/7/2018 at 10:10 PM, Herowannabe said:

Yeah I still have all of my resource books. Of course my friends and I all much preferred the second edition of the RPG, which improved a number of things (the main one I remember is making attacks against things of different scales, like an X-Wing shooting a star destroyer). I really wonder why FFG chose to reprint the first edition rules...

The Second Edition rules were better -- depending on one's definition -- but they were also significantly more complex. Just for one example, the addition of the Wild Die. My group always preferred First Edition, despite the improvements.

Anyway, the D6 system is fantastic. Played WEG D6 Star Wars waaaaaaay back in the day at GenCon, and had a ball.

So much so that I'm currently prepping a 30-session Firefly campaign using the D6 system. It's so perfect for it.

On 7/6/2018 at 10:04 PM, Kieransi said:

Hey, everyone!

I was super excited today that my reprint of the WEG RPG came in today! Looks really fun.

So I'm looking to come up with rules for combining it with X-Wing!

The reasoning behind this is that this RPG exists very cheaply in many places and is a good basic, low entry cost RPG that might combine with X-Wing for a fun HotAC-like experience rather well.

Maybe some of you would be interested in joining me and helping write the rules? I created a Discord server for that, please PM me if you're interested and I'll send you the invite link.

Also watch this thread, because if anyone's interested I'll be posting periodic progress updates here.

Oh hai.

I have no thoughts yet but I. Am. In. For. This. Thread.

Ran so much WEG Star Wars in my life and I love it.

If this is the same d6 Star Wars game I played 20 years ago I don’t see the allure. It was horrible in the fact jedi were stupid over powered in rolling skill checks and regular people were nearly useless. After playing it I swore off d6 systems forever but again not sure if you guys mean the same game.

Now Shadowrun is how a D6 game should work ?

2 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

If this is the same d6 Star Wars game I played 20 years ago I don’t see the allure. It was horrible in the fact jedi were stupid over powered in rolling skill checks and regular people were nearly useless. After playing it I swore off d6 systems forever but again not sure if you guys mean the same game.

It's the same game, but I suspect you misunderstood the rules. Jedi -- especially at the start -- have no particular power advantage over other characters. In fact, many people complained that they were in many ways weaker, because they had more things to spend very finite starting resources on. (For example, all characters had to spend points (dice, or pips, technically) on stats and skills ... but Jedi also had to spend their dice on Control, Sense, and Alter facets of the Force ... and they did not get more dice than anybody else. During game play all characters -- including non-Jedi -- could spend Force points to increase the chances of succeeding at combat and skill checks.

23 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It's the same game, but I suspect you misunderstood the rules. Jedi -- especially at the start -- have no particular power advantage over other characters. In fact, many people complained that they were in many ways weaker, because they had more things to spend very finite starting resources on. (For example, all characters had to spend points (dice, or pips, technically) on stats and skills ... but Jedi also had to spend their dice on Control, Sense, and Alter facets of the Force ... and they did not get more dice than anybody else. During game play all characters -- including non-Jedi -- could spend Force points to increase the chances of succeeding at combat and skill checks.

I seem to remember not buying force powers and jacking my skills because of the reason you said. I know when we played jedi had some kind of mechanic that let them up roll higher, not so much rolling more dice, they had much easier times hitting high numbers than vanilla people. I don’t know, it has been over 20 years I just remember not liking it at all. Though we played several different games in those days so things kind of bleed together especially after so much time.

On 7/8/2018 at 6:22 AM, Dasharr said:

First ed did some things better I think. The alien species rules in 1e prevented the 6d Strength Wookiee problem in 2e. 1e also had nice broad skills that fit Star Wars better than the highly specific skill list of 2e (where flying a swoop bike is an entirely separate skill from a speeder bike). If I were to ever run a Star Wars RPG again I think I would pass over both FFG's system and WotC's Saga Edition for a WEG hybrid of 1e and 2e d6.

The last time I ran D6 I specifically culled a great deal of skills for this very reason.

9 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

If this is the same d6 Star Wars game I played 20 years ago I don’t see the allure. It was horrible in the fact jedi were stupid over powered in rolling skill checks and regular people were nearly useless.

So, just like the Star Wars mythos, then? I mean, mortals shouldn't expect to keep up with gods, and a well-run campaign could and should explore the relationship between force-users and non-force-users, exploring issues that arise from radical asymmetry in power and ability between members of the group (assuming the group has one or more force-sensitive characters). Of course, in a campaign where all the players expect that their characters should be roughly equal in power-level, yea non-jedis would be salty and jealous of jedis. So that kind of group can either just make everyone a jedi or not let any player characters have force-sensitivity.

Frnakly, I think it's a disservice to Star Wars when games try to make non-jedi balanced with jedi for 'fairness.' The world isn't fair, and the Star Wars universe is even less fair.

37 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So, just like the Star Wars mythos, then? I mean, mortals shouldn't expect to keep up with gods, and a well-run campaign could and should explore the relationship between force-users and non-force-users, exploring issues that arise from radical asymmetry in power and ability between members of the group (assuming the group has one or more force-sensitive characters). Of course, in a campaign where all the players expect that their characters should be roughly equal in power-level, yea non-jedis would be salty and jealous of jedis. So that kind of group can either just make everyone a jedi or not let any player characters have force-sensitivity.

Frnakly, I think it's a disservice to Star Wars when games try to make non-jedi balanced with jedi for 'fairness.' The world isn't fair, and the Star Wars universe is even less fair.

Or you can base it off what the Original Trilogy showed us about the Force, and ignore the Prequels, Sequels, current material like Vader Down, and Kevin J. Anderson's God Mode Jedi from the old EU. Y'know, back when being a Force user didn't mean you weren't still mortal. Remember how much effort and focus it took Yoda to lift a single X-wing out of a swamp?

1 hour ago, Ambaryerno said:

Or you can base it off what the Original Trilogy showed us about the Force, and ignore the Prequels, Sequels, current material like Vader Down, and Kevin J. Anderson's God Mode Jedi from the old EU. Y'know, back when being a Force user didn't mean you weren't still mortal. Remember how much effort and focus it took Yoda to lift a single X-wing out of a swamp?

Which when I played this game the Original Trilogy was the Only Trilogy. Part of why I dislike the PT is it deified jedi.

Back in the day it was a good assumption that 1 on 1 a jedi was supreme but not much further. After the prequels a single jedi takes on 100 soldiers easily... never liked that idea and found it kid service stupidity.

23 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Which when I played this game the Original Trilogy was the Only Trilogy. Part of why I dislike the PT is it deified jedi.

Back in the day it was a good assumption that 1 on 1 a jedi was supreme but not much further. After the prequels a single jedi takes on 100 soldiers easily... never liked that idea and found it kid service stupidity.

I DESPISE Vader Down for this reason. It basically elevated Vader to Batman levels of Mary Sue. I mean seriously, he's casually throwing around proton torpedoes and swatting whole squadrons of X-wings out of the sky. If he was THAT powerful in the original film Red Leader would have never gotten his torpedoes off (and remember, if his timing was just a HAIR better Luke wouldn't have been the big hero of the Yavin).

This is also why I don't like Epic level DnD. Characters get so powerful it frankly stops being fun (my favorite NWN2 server was a Dark Ages Britain-based server that used E8 leveling).

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 4:38 PM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So, just like the Star Wars mythos, then? I mean, mortals shouldn't expect to keep up with gods, and a well-run campaign could and should explore the relationship between force-users and non-force-users, exploring issues that arise from radical asymmetry in power and ability between members of the group (assuming the group has one or more force-sensitive characters). Of course, in a campaign where all the players expect that their characters should be roughly equal in power-level, yea non-jedis would be salty and jealous of jedis. So that kind of group can either just make everyone a jedi or not let any player characters have force-sensitivity.

That's something the FFG game does pretty well, I think. Take a basic character (or enemy) and slap even a few levels of 'the force' on it and you really see the difference, but a non-force-user-character ace/pilot and a force user warrior/starfighter ace with the same XP spent are pretty equivalent.

Narratively, the non-force-user would be an ace pilot with academy training and five years combat experience whilst the force user might be a dweeb from a moisture farm being guided by voices in his head on his first time in a proper fighter, but their actual ability to shoot stuff down is pretty much equivalent.

So I want to get this a little on topic.


I think you can go 1 of 3 ways and you ought to decide early how you prefer.

1. Xwing, but with your RPG characters (maybe give each player a pilot ability or something)
2. A mix. Perhaps let the players spend XP to improve EPT's or allow for multiple mods or something.
3. Use the WEG system and use the ships as references more or less.

Honestly I would suggest #3 but I'll help with any of them.

2 hours ago, Kelvan said:

So I want to get this a little on topic.


I think you can go 1 of 3 ways and you ought to decide early how you prefer.

1. Xwing, but with your RPG characters (maybe give each player a pilot ability or something)
2. A mix. Perhaps let the players spend XP to improve EPT's or allow for multiple mods or something.
3. Use the WEG system and use the ships as references more or less.

Honestly I would suggest #3 but I'll help with any of them.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking too, although I might try to incorporate the FFG system a little bit, since I like the maneuver templates and dials, and I expect my local players might want to use FFG dice and/or upgrades and stuff. So somewhere between 2 and 3 on your list?

I'm hesitant to go too close to X-Wing since those sort of campaigns tend to get really brutal and I don't feel like killing a lot of PCs if I don't have to. A good Star Wars campaign is a lot like a Star Wars movie: the good guys do have a good deal of plot armor and only really die if there's a significant powerful plot reason for them to do so (such as Obi Wan or Biggs). That being said, the Solo movie had a few main characters die in the middle of the movie. And I have known some people who really liked playing a Rogue One-like campaign.

Do you have Discord? I did create a server to talk about this, just because I like having channels dedicated to various topics, and the FFG forum image sharing is rather cumbersome.

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking too, although I might try to incorporate the FFG system a little bit, since I like the maneuver templates and dials, and I expect my local players might want to use FFG dice and/or upgrades and stuff. So somewhere between 2 and 3 on your list?

I'm hesitant to go too close to X-Wing since those sort of campaigns tend to get really brutal and I don't feel like killing a lot of PCs if I don't have to. A good Star Wars campaign is a lot like a Star Wars movie: the good guys do have a good deal of plot armor and only really die if there's a significant powerful plot reason for them to do so (such as Obi Wan or Biggs). That being said, the Solo movie had a few main characters die in the middle of the movie. And I have known some people who really liked playing a Rogue One-like campaign.

Do you have Discord? I did create a server to talk about this, just because I like having channels dedicated to various topics, and the FFG forum image sharing is rather cumbersome.

I do have discord.

Additionally if you're worried about Xwing being dangerous... Don't run D6 at all. It's a very brutal system.

25 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Additionally if you're worried about Xwing being dangerous... Don't run D6 at all. It's a very brutal system.

Hmmm? D6 is one of the least lethal systems (for PCs) I've ever used. That's what made it so great for Star Wars.

36 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Hmmm? D6 is one of the least lethal systems (for PCs) I've ever used. That's what made it so great for Star Wars.

I'm wary of a an "internet argument" here but yeah it's fairly easy to die in D6, especially 2nd ed with the Wild Die.

3 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

I'm wary of a an "internet argument" here but yeah it's fairly easy to die in D6, especially 2nd ed with the Wild Die.

Could be the difference. We tried 2nd, didn't like it, went back to 1st. I had a few close calls with my PCs, including bacta tank time, but no deaths.

All in all I prefer the new FFG system the most. But there has yet to be an RPG system that handled Space Combat in a way that truly engages me. I've had to *WORK* to get a squadron based game going.

Honestly, the structure that X-Wing provides would be too tempting for me to resist. I think I'd just handle the lethality of it with a very simple mechanism like Plot Points:

(1) When there's a space combat using the X-Wing system, award each PC ship involved a number of Plot Points: 1 or 2 points for a battle in which the PCs probably aren't in real danger, 3 points for a fair fight, and 4 points -- maybe even 5 -- for a dangerous fight.

(2) Whenever a PC wants to do something not handled by the X-Wing system, he or she can spend a Plot Point and roll an attack die: on a hit/crit, the attempt is successful. Shoot at two TIEs? No problem: spend a Plot Point. Make the GM's Decimator show his dial before you set yours? Spend a PP. Rescue an ejected pilot? No problem, spend a Plot Point. (Or both the rescuer AND rescued can try, meaning a net 75% success chance.) Miraculously come through with hyperdrive nav coordinates just before getting shot at? Spend a PP.

This allows PCs to do really cool things in space combats, while protecting them from dying ( ... too much).

47 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I think I'd just handle the lethality of it with a very simple mechanism like Plot Points

Or you could simply assume that pilots shot down in space combat were able to eject unless plot requires otherwise.

2 hours ago, Kelvan said:

All in all I prefer the new FFG system the most. But there has yet to be an RPG system that handled Space Combat in a way that truly engages me. I've had to *WORK* to get a squadron based game going.

My two main issues with the new FFG system is that it plays great if you have a group/gm that's really good at ad-libbing off the narrative dice. But with the wrong group/gm it can fall a little flat. My second issue is that I really don't like the abstract overly complex way starship combat is done. On some level what kills me about it is Jay Little was the lead freaking designer.

As far as WEG went, I always enjoyed the starship combat, but it's hard to tell if that's colored by the fact that usually it was a group working their stock light freighter rather than multiple dog fighters.

2 hours ago, EastCoast said:

My two main issues with the new FFG system is that it plays great if you have a group/gm that's really good at ad-libbing off the narrative dice. But with the wrong group/gm it can fall a little flat. My second issue is that I really don't like the abstract overly complex way starship combat is done. On some level what kills me about it is Jay Little was the lead freaking designer.

As far as WEG went, I always enjoyed the starship combat, but it's hard to tell if that's colored by the fact that usually it was a group working their stock light freighter rather than multiple dog fighters.

I have done semi tactical combat in the FFG version. It took some doing though.

22 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

I have done semi tactical combat in the FFG version. It took some doing though.

That's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. Combat starts at around 35 minutes, I'm about 10 minutes in, No spoilers!

My god man, how long did it take you to do all the pre scenario set up? I'm assuming some was delivered via an existing Roll 20 module.