Hi all, just looking for some advice.

I've recently picked up the Base Descent game and my friends and I have given it a few games and plan to play some more this weekend.

After our 1st run through we all loved it and we're all keen to try a Campaign, I've done a bit of research and like the look of Road to Legend as the 1st one to try (if that goes well we may well get Sea of Blood and give that a go).

The question is:

Is Road to Legend playable using just it and the Base Descent or should we look into an expanion or two 1st?

Give me your thoughts on the subject, and if anyone else has tried this setup please let me know how you went.

Thanks!

It is certainly doable, to just use the Descent base set and Road to Legend, though in my opinion you're missing out on some of the more fun things you can do with the expansions mixed in. For me (speaking as an Overlord player), I like having as many options available as I can, and the expansions not only add some juicy new monsters to spawn, but some pretty fun cards into the mix (as well as the "treachery" cards, which are limited but powerful). Hero side of things, the expansions offer some of the better heroes, new treasures, and the addition of "feats" in the Tomb of Ice expansion.

Really though, it's up to you. Like I said at the start, playing without the other expansions is very doable, and I'm sure you'll have fun either way.

I am in pretty much the same situation as our friend above.

We are starting a campaign next week. But only have the base game and RTL. Since it is ME who owns the game, paints the miniatures, ans plays the OL (so far) I would like to know which of the expansions you think I should get.

I would (of cause) like to buy the box that gives the OL (me) the most advantages, while it keeps the Heroes "on the ground" where they belong (preferably face down in the dirt)

I am thinking either alter of despair, or well of darkness might be the best choice ?

Krede said:

Strictly speaking, that probably depends on your Avatar choice.

If you prefer humanoids, then WoD because it added Ferrox and Kobolds. It also added eldritch Golems, but they are exceptionally rare.
Possibly most important of all, Crushing Blow (destroys an item) event is from WoD.
WoD added Nanok, who is almost universally regarded as brokenly good as well as Hawthorne and Thorn (good heroes), Glyr and Laurel (middling heroes) and Tetherys (crap hero)

AoD added Blood Apes (powerful Beast spawn), Dark Priests (powerful Eldritch spawn), Deep Elves (powerful but uncommon Humanoid), Trolls (very powerful but rare large humanoid) and Chaos Beats (very powerful but exceptionally rare large Eldritch).
AoD also added a second Dark Charm to the deck, which is rather nice.
AoD adds two of the strongest heroes (Tahlia and Kirga) but also several weaker heroes (Aurim, Eliam) and two middling heroes (Corbin, Sahla*).

*Sahla tends toward the weaker end of the scale unless the heroes find a very nasty cursed staff that prevents undying.

Thanks a lot Corbon. very helpful advice.

I was leaning towards AoD, on account of the dark glyphs, and on the notion that it should be the better of the two (read it somewhere in the net)

But now I think WoD might be better as I prefer "small" monster, if for no other reason then the ease of maneuverability. From reading the rules I believe my best bet for supremacy will be to focus on nasty traps, and cheap labour (monsters) rather than rare powerful creatures that will most certainly be killed off in the next hero turn anyway.

Krede said:

Just so you know, Dark Priests and Deep Elves are one-space monsters, Blood Apes 2 spaces. All are significantly 'better' than both ferrox and kolbolds in general. Deep Elves don't have a spawn card (except treachery) but are sometimes available in dungeon choices.

Yep I was aware of that. I will eventually get both expansions so it is not that big a deal, I am just poised to buy one or the other right away (possibly today) and would like to get the one that's the most use to me.

Also, aside from the heroes and monsters, Well of Darkness has a few corrected cards for the base game. Altar of Despair nearly doubles the available treasure decks. Good stuff!

I would add Tomb of Ice first, since the heroes get their Feats and you get access to the dreaded Ice Wyrm. Nothing says love like a ranged swallow attack!

I agree that RtL is playable with only the base game. If you do plan on buying another expansion though, I would get Tomb of Ice as well as either AoD or WoD. The reason is that the feat cards, will help to balance out the overlord's treachery, they're both powerful additions and help to offset each other. Of course, if you are finding one side is having a very easy time, then you could just get 1 expansion to help them. But if you want to try and keep things somewhat balanced I would go with both ToI and a 2nd one at the same time so treacheryfeats could off set.

I'm in the exact same situation. Got RtL yesterday in a trade and only have the base game from before.

They way I see it, we can play through the campaign several times now (with different avatar+plot), then when we later add an expansion (will probably get them in order), the same avatar+plot will be more replayable as there's new stuff.

Also, I want to see if the heroes or overlord has the upper hand, as that might influence what expansion to get first.

Well... I went and got WoD yesterday... but after consulting boardgamegeek forums I have decided that my life will never be complete without a pack of Bloodapes... so I will get AoD later today...

I DO fancy the ToI expansion too, but as I see it my Heroes are too good at power gaming as it is... and adding the rules from two expansions AS WELL as starting up a campaign is challenge enough for now. If it turns out that the Heroes doesn't stand a chance, I'll add ToI at that point.

Further... I don't see why Treachery is that big a deal. Especially In RTL. You only get to swap a few cards and that's it. Chances are that they won't even come up before the dungeon is solved.

Krede said:

They are very powerful cards, usually swapped out for very weak cards.

First, in an advanced campaigns the 'value' of a card is different from vanilla and can vary hugely depending on conditions. For example, a gold Kobold is not much different from a copper Bloodape (RG Swarm and 14 damage to kill in one hit vs RG Leap and 12 damage to kill), so a kobold spawn card is fantastic by comparison to a bloodape spawn card iy you have gold humanoids and copper beasts. Thus selected cards from a selection set that is already more powerful than normal, such as Treachery, often become really quite exceptionally powerful.

Second, Treachery allows you to do things that just can't be done by normal cards. Destroy items for example (very important when the heroes keep everything they can find or buy over a long campaign). Activate monsters during the heroes turn (spawn a powerful monster group, attack with it, then attack with it again when the heroes are already battered and the monsters are already in position). Give Dark Relics, prevent the use of glyphs, etc etc.

Third, in the advanced campaign the OL generally plays fewer cards overall than in vanilla. Because of point 1, cards are often far more effective if timed correctly - ie you only Rage when you have a hard-hitting upgraded monster available and if none are available you hlde the Rage in your hand and wait for a better time. Because of the spawning marker (eyes) no-upgraded spawns are often a waste of time - you don't want to use them because if you draw a good spawn next turn it will cost you 15 extra threat to use! The consequence of this point 3 is that there are a lot more 'dud' cards in your deck that you want to replace with 'extremely powerful' ones. It doesn't matter if you only see one or two extremely powerful cards per level, because you probably weren't going to be able to afford to play more than that anyway.

Fourth, Treachery allows you to get extras of some basic cards. Thus the heroes can't be sure that you are out of crushing blocks for example, just because you have already played the ones in the basic deck*. If you swap even one card out of your deck for a treachery card they can't be sure what you still have up your sleeve and must take into account all possibilities.

Fifthly, and most importantly - transcending all else, Treachery allows you to play selected cards during Lt encounters . This makes these a very hard fight for the heroes and gives your Lts an excellent chance of beating the heroes if they have a large selection of Treachery. This allows your Lts to be bold and act freely in fulfilling your quest aims, or seiging and razing cities, instead of cowering in fear every time the heroes pay any attention to them.

Have a look at some of the treachery cards available at http://www.descentinthedark.com/
Unfortunately there is no categorisation of Treachery there that I know of but you can just browse looking for names or terms you haven't heard of before.
Check out Animate Weapons, Boulders, Crushing Blow, Dance of the Monkey God, Enraged... just to begin with. Or consider a Lone Troll (with Bash skill - combining with a normal Aim card) for mass hero-killing effect.

*really smart heroes will very rarely attempt any clever move without some fatigue or excess MP in hand in case they get blocked or pit trapped - nothing worse than declaring a battle action, spending all your fatigue to get adjacent to some monsters, and then being crushing blocked back unable to attack). Thus their effective operating radius is fractionally smaller than normal. Without any treachery, as soon as the second block/trap comes out they know they are free to stretch that little bit further each turn.
Just having swapped some cards in and out with Treachery keeps the uncertainty principle operating longer even if the treachery cards never get drawn.

Thanks Corbon.

Like I said I will give it a go with just the AoD and WoD expansions... but If the heroes are utterly crushed (according to my cunning plan) Of cause I will get ToI and feats to even things out. I want the game to be fun for everybody.

It appears to me that adding the expansion also increases the amount of cards in the OL deck somewhat ?

Krede said:

Yes, but the extra benefits more than compensate!

Corbon said:

On the Overlord Cards page, just click on the Treachery Cost column; this will sort the cards by number and type of treachery needed.

I believe all of the charts on that site are sortable in the same way.

mahkra said:

Cool. I always go there via a bookmarked normal page and forgot there even was an OL cards page!