First, I am far from an expert so take what I am saying with a grain of salt. Please don’t get me wrong, they are some fun cards, but once again it doesn’t take Bobby Knights Grimes Ren to figure out that few cards will see tournament play. I am not a tournament guy, buy at least know by now what to look for in a card. It appears this set is a single buying set for collectors instead of buying boxes. I would love to see some lists of at least 20 dice cards that will see regular play and more than 6 legendaries holding a value of more than $10 in a year. The value seems to be off. I see a lot of fun cards, a few solid cards, but also a continuation of FAR TOO MANY duds that we have come to expect all too frequently. This must stop soon, very soon.

The two resource a turn can be creatively worked around by all sorts of methods that the designers have yet to really dive into in order to really make the stuff useful. For example, using a pay 2 resources this turn and having to pay one next turn spreads out the cost of a three cost weapon/ability. It is so easy to dismiss a weapon without redeploy etc. because characters can so easily die turn 2 and those resources can’t afford to be lost. The designers could also make certain weapons more powerful or affordable depending on the turn. Take the useless Master of the Council legendary which I sooo wanted to be useful. What if the cost was toggled down on turn 3/4 to 3 instead of 4. What are your creative ideas to solving the cost curve issue? Maybe some of these ideas make useless cards more playable without busting the meta. Look, I don’t claim to have the answers, just impore others to help get some answers out there. Improving the economics of the game means people feel more confident in investing in product. 5 boxes at $430 can so quickly evaporate in worth to $150-200. It is a concerning trend—this is only due to lack of quality, thoughtful product. I continue to get the feeling they playtest only a few cards understanding the rest is junk, filler and thus not in need of testing. FF is known to be cheap on personnel, but do they need to be that cheap? They can reach out to the play-testers more—people who love the game enough to give them ideas and will work for free.

There is often a fine line between a card being playable and unplayable which with some creativity. Maybe this is not that all that creative because we see it in other games, but spreading out the cost of turns is easy. Reduce the cost of the X blaster if the character already has an ability on them is another idea. How about Master of the Council costing only 2 if it is the character’s third upgrade, etc? No, I have not given that exact cost that much thought, but that is the type of stuff we need to see. Easily marked with turn markers like glass beads etc. This slows certain things down but makes them more affordable as time goes on.

Finally, the perceived value of the legendaries seems far too low and this could have been fixed by making tweaks to about 4-5of the legendaries: formidable, stealthy, grevious (again?), his bike (ouch), etc.

Every commentator understood immediately that Ayla S was broken yet FF pushed it out anyways. I was getting the feeling that so little testing goes into the majority of cards and that they put cards in a set knowing they will point adjust latter. Unfortunately, cards are seeing increases not decreases; however, Unkar is a promising concession even though he was already adjusted. It means they care about PAST CARDS at least and that is on their mind. Mistakes are on their mind. I still wish they would stop putting points on cards and use the new X-wing 2.0 model—but, I recognize I could easily be in the minority with that. I just finished my $2k x-wing collection for my 8 year old daughter—haven’t play one game with her yet just building grab and go shelves of squadrons—only to find out that I need to spend about $700 more and that my 14-20 autothrusters I bought mostly on the secondary market are about worthless—but hey, I am ok with that because ultimately I want what is better for a game and is sustainable. Just really bad timing for me.

There are again too many legendary flops once again to make the economic of this game gain, or maintain, momentum. Will this set hurt Destiny? I think so. Will it be it’s Death Knell? No! But the next set must, must turn a corner or Destiny will continue to be marginalized—not die or some gloom and doom scenario—just shrink. Mace’s lightsaber could have replaced a number of underwhelming cards. It could have even been a rare instead of legendary—should be. Vader’s LS, well I think they want to get that one perfect and need some more time. The point being, is that certain characters that are legendaries need continued support so people have faith in them. Aphra is a positive example in this set, but other example are hard to come by.

I like the new direction they are taking with some of the cards. Unfortunately, they are pushing the envelope too slowly for my taste—and maybe for the taste of others. While I hate gungans and podracers, I like the avenue the took and welcome the freshness. I don’t particularly care for secondary characters continue to be lengendary (Phasma, Rex etc.) , but I also understand the thinking behind it—getting Obi etc. into peoples’ hands. However, I continue to like the concept of certain cards being better when paired with particular characters (Poe’s blaster, Rey’s LS, Rex’s blaster etc), but they need to stop making them legendary for Pete’s Sake. I would like to see some upgrades be better with natural movi pairing characters.

So they have part of the concept right, but they are executing it incorrectly and not helping with common card support. They don’t to they should use uncommons too often for the purpose of bring up to speed older cards out of risk of alienating new players, but instead use commons and rares. FF doesn’t get the concept of maintaining an economy for cards of past sets. I swear they have to get a couple of game MBA types up in that joint part of the periphery design team.

Again, I think they once again missed an opportunity to bring value back to more existing cards which continues to haunt the progress of this game. Just one small example out of many: With the advent of Cassian, I really thought there might be more love for Jyn—not a lengendary, but far more important than so many legendary characters this created. She is an over-costed iconic character that needed just a couple cards with text benefiting the “operative” keyword word in just a few cards. It was also a natural movie pairing that I personally would like to see more support for—as with all common pairings. Baze the Blind Man and got a little love, but not enough. Some secondary card text on three cards this set could have fixed that. We just have to end seeing a few too many rares that won’t see play on day one of a release. 70-80% of things should be tested for 6-8weeks before being relegated to the junk heap.

Cheers Mates

Rotation, they're shifting the design philosophy and reducing the general power level of cards.

You can already see that in how this set will shake up the Trilogies meta which I'm increasingly interested in.

Okay, I have to put this out there. I started playing Star Wars Destiny because of what you were wanting, happening in Cardfight Vanguard. Older boss cards would get support, and the competitive base would suck up the old cards, causing a catastrophic rise and substantially worse crash of the set, as only that archtype got value, and all other cards being rendered low value or worthless. To make matters worse, after the cards were in players hands, if the deck turned out to be sub par, the secondary market would flood with those once marked up old cards. Reprints also compound the situation either further increasing or decreasing the value. I'm not saying older decks shouldn't get support, but if they do, do it right.

It's not a situation that any game wants to be in.

Oh, and older sets should rise in price courtesy of the infinite format.

Not to be mean but you lost me after about the 4th paragraph. I don't need to read War and Peace to understand why you're going to purchase this set or parts of it, the Way You Are. I'm definitely not the best player but I enjoy it and probably spend too much on it.

I get some of what you are saying. Some of the new cards will never see play. Jabba is a good example. At this point having constructive criticism may just get this game heading in the right direction. At least we can Hope!

Not only is the OP longish but it is also not accurate in its assessment of the state of the game. Destiny is growing not shrinking and is nowhere near marginalized.

This set is being well regarded pretty much everywhere I interact. It opens up new play styles and includes a lot of good cards. Jabba is the weakest card and even with him there are ways to build a workable deck. But going from Jabba you get a LOT of good characters. Luke is very strong but pointed properly. So is new Dooku. Pryce opens up a new play style for Villain and Snoke introduces a new deck style. Cessian and Leia provide Mill a new and interesting deck build,. Even Boss Nass and his Gungans make for an interesting aggro model that just keeps throwing indirect damage at the opponent the entire turn. In the same vein Piett and multiple non-unique characters brings a highly consistent output to 3 and 4 wide decks. Also it gives new Supports, Upgrades and Events that both reinforce old ways of operating and add new ones.

I think this is just the way of CCG's most of the cards in any set will only be for casual fun. If you are playing to win, there are only a few cards out of each set that make competitive play. I just wish the set's were wider with more support for other arch types / play styles. Control cards especially are going to be weak after rotation if the next two sets don't have many better options. We're still getting power creep in both characters, weapons, and supports. Luke is a prime example of this look at other 15 cost characters dice, now his ability isn't auto damage, but does allow you to double dip on blue abilities each turn. -1 point on Unkar isn't fixing older sets. Original Vader, Luke, Han, Leia haven't seen a top 8 since they were the only set out. I wish they'd at least balance the old legends and make them worth while. Buying singles is always the way to go. Just don't buy anything above common the first month or two the set is out unless you see a card you think will grow over time. CCG's really are a cash grab and FFG knows it. I wish this was an LCG format so you could buy just cards for the faction you want to play.

I just run drafts, got eLuke from my first 8 packs of the new set. Once the meta settles out I'll be paying a premium for the best cards, but I don't won't 120 more cards for my binder each set.

I appreciate the critism and fully admit that I am maybe not the best person to be making evaluations. However, if you take my over critism away, you still are left with some solid ideas on how the designers can make the sets better with less dead weight.

Joelish makes some fine points about so great new cards. I agree the set moves the game forward. My point is they can do better and promote more dice hitting tables through more creative applications—regardless of what those final mechanics actually are. There are plenty of ways to have made Master of the Council and Rebellion Leader work, but failing to help legendaries and rares retain a portion of their value means the wallets of too many gamers can’t keep on taking the hits.

What I seem to see as a buyer of collections who builds multiple decks is that for every person getting out their appears to be someone either buying their sets on the very cheap to make more decks or getting in. However, this is not sustainable. When people see fully playsets of x2 Awakenings, SOTR, and EAW with some marginal promos and nice ultra pro leather binders selling for $475, it reduces confidence in the collectability of the game.

People like me who don’t sell out of their old stuff to buy the new are not affected, but younger players with less capital will lose confidence. Again, the game is not dying, or going to die, but at the same time unless FF begins making better rares and more consistently playable legendaries, they will not really expand the game.

No, no no, no every card needs to be tier 1, but mistakes like master of the Council and Rebellion Leader have to go. Not only did that hurt that card, but it diminished Mace as well because let’s face it, it feels nice to put a card that matches the picture of another card on it. It was a wasted opportunity for one of my favorite characters.

When any decent Destiny commentator/blogger/personality without actually playing the cards says before release mentions that these legendaries are unplayable, Houston...we have a problem. That says to me FF doesn’t even try to get the basic economics that are needed for the growing health of the game right.

22 hours ago, 1977Valarian said:

First, I am far from an expert so take what I am saying with a grain of salt....

This CCG has about 4-5 sub-games at the moment, not just the competitive scene but the play-for-fun guys that will put theme first, trilogy, standard, draft and sealed, multi-player and regular. Different play groups will probably value a whole mess of the cards you don't for a variety of reasons. This alone makes the design space challenging as there are a variety of play styles you need to cater to.

Add to that that there are two main win conditions, Mill and KIll, as well as one or two strange ones, Crime Lord for example.

Cards cycle in and out of favour, I have seen players throw cards in their decks that many people wrote off when they came out. Conversely cards like Holocron that were asked to be banned (by Grimes and Ren) before the game came out are now marginalised into but a couple of decks. Probe is even making a bit of a come back as had Quadjumper.

Well just seeing x2 maul’s LS go for $35 with a make an offer on eBay none the less demonstrates like so many other cards that the ECONOMICS of the game aren’t sustainable for a FULLY healthy community. The game is great and yes you are right that there are plenty of ways to play. For people like me who don’t sell cards and only buy not an issue, BUT...BUT for the average joe blow it make less sense to purchase this game with confidence. Your level, my level, of excitement will not get people into the game. A quadjummer still costs near to nothing. The game’s legendaries need to ON AVERAGE hold value. And the rares well...

Look, if FF themselves can’t understand basic economic principles with regard to their game, what I preaching for? The Uber Destiny fans can’t see past how awesome the game is to glimpse at what is happening, and what is likely to happen. Economics mean nothing when going against passion.

I agree , some of the collectors in my area bought 4 boxes. 1200$ per year isn't sustainable. I just look at the game and the 1000$+ I've spent on it. My board game collection didn't cost that and brings just as much if not more fun. I love destiny but not sure it's sustainable at current prices. Plus just all the dice I'll never play with or be able to sell seems insane and we're only 5 sets in.

In terms of old dice and duplicate dice cards, why not drop them off at a LCS to hand out to new players at their weekly or monthly tournaments? I think this helps bring folks in if they know they can get started with some freebies from the community. Even a new player getting into the game now can use something like a BB-8 from awk if he runs the droid with anakin.

On 7/7/2018 at 12:59 PM, 1977Valarian said:

I appreciate the critism and fully admit that I am maybe not the best person to be making evaluations. However, if you take my over critism away, you still are left with some solid ideas on how the designers can make the sets better with less dead weight.

Joelish makes some fine points about so great new cards. I agree the set moves the game forward. My point is they can do better and promote more dice hitting tables through more creative applications—regardless of what those final mechanics actually are. There are plenty of ways to have made Master of the Council and Rebellion Leader work, but failing to help legendaries and rares retain a portion of their value means the wallets of too many gamers can’t keep on taking the hits.

What I seem to see as a buyer of collections who builds multiple decks is that for every person getting out their appears to be someone either buying their sets on the very cheap to make more decks or getting in. However, this is not sustainable. When people see fully playsets of x2 Awakenings, SOTR, and EAW with some marginal promos and nice ultra pro leather binders selling for $475, it reduces confidence in the collectability of the game.

People like me who don’t sell out of their old stuff to buy the new are not affected, but younger players with less capital will lose confidence. Again, the game is not dying, or going to die, but at the same time unless FF begins making better rares and more consistently playable legendaries, they will not really expand the game.

No, no no, no every card needs to be tier 1, but mistakes like master of the Council and Rebellion Leader have to go. Not only did that hurt that card, but it diminished Mace as well because let’s face it, it feels nice to put a card that matches the picture of another card on it. It was a wasted opportunity for one of my favorite characters.

When any decent Destiny commentator/blogger/personality without actually playing the cards says before release mentions that these legendaries are unplayable, Houston...we have a problem. That says to me FF doesn’t even try to get the basic economics that are needed for the growing health of the game right.

So...Have you played Master of the Council or Rebellion Leader? In the right decks they are AMAZING! I put a master of the council in my Luke/Ezra Built to last deck, and the damage potential is out of this world.

1 hour ago, JoshisJoshingyou said:

I agree , some of the collectors in my area bought 4 boxes. 1200$ per year isn't sustainable. I just look at the game and the 1000$+ I've spent on it. My board game collection didn't cost that and brings just as much if not more fun. I love destiny but not sure it's sustainable at current prices. Plus just all the dice I'll never play with or be able to sell seems insane and we're only 5 sets in.

The capital problem is die cards. This game revolves around them to the point where typically after 1.5 boxes worth of boosters you ONLY need die cards. Three bucks for a single random card is pretty steep.
I wish they'd revise the packs to be 2die cards for maybe a buck more. Because right now its ridiculous. MTG boosters are 4 bucks for 15 cards, i can buy a single box and typically only jump to ebay for 5ish cards i didnt pull or didnt pull enough of for less than 25 bucks and bam im done, ~130 total. Yeah im missing some really big mythics but 99% of the time they are their own deck type of gimick, not added into stuff i already do.
I have already purchased more than that worth of WOTF and there are TONS of die-cards i am missing i desperately want. Fortunately only Rex's Blaster is the missing legendary for me that i actually want, rest i dont have would be neat but i dont NEED them. Stupid die-cards....

Not to mention thats the big reason why said die cards are upwards of 40 bucks each on ebay. Its RARE for a MTG card to even break 20 on release just because of the amount of cards you get and no additional stuff required (typically, there are token creatures and dual-sided card standins but you usually get these in droves), but only the most common die-cards in Destiny (or complete garbage die-cards) are less than 10bucks, and usually breaking 20 if not pushing 30.

Heck, people are trying to sell the new Leia for 16-18 right now. She is hot garbage, i find it hilarious how the Legion version of Leia is literally the only good incarnation in FFG games shes had ive seen. And shes still being sold in the high teens, or at least attempting to.

This is the largest reason why so many people in my area either dropped out of Destiny or barely buy anything now. The game LOOKS cheap but oh my god is it not cheap.

Hard to scale this wall o text properly, but I'll try to give two cents

Imo the first cycle of Destiny (awakenings through spirit or whichever) was mediocre and indicative of growing pains. The LEAP in quality between Ancient and the Grand Inquisitor's Lightsaber tells you all you need to know there

Legacies and Wotf, while still packing a few "no **** Sherlock" cards, are FAR better designed with more viable archetypes coming to fruition now that we're two sets into the new cycle

Wotf got me to try vechiles and godDAMN did ffg learn from their mistakes. Planetary and the ARC are leagues above the ATST and its little buddy since they aren't burdened by super situational anti-support abilities

Plus, with stuff like Calling in Favors (delve, mobilize), Piett's ability, tiny Anakin's dice and ability etc. it's so easy to get around the 2 resource/turn limit and to pump out vechiles

Tl;Dr: first cycle kinda sucked in terms of card quality schism but ffg is learning imo

Agreed.

Most of the cards in Awakenings was total garbage or ludicrously good. There seemed to be no happy medium.