13 minutes ago, StephenEsven said:

The rules book is now available but not the reference. Arc however is not range restricted. They extend from the center of the base to the wdge of the playing area.

So even if it souds counter intuitive a ship is in its own arcs. After all thwy are pri ted on the base so rhe base is always in them.

And since Kanan does bot state the ship to be beyond range 0, you as well as any ship at range 0 in the arx should be elligeble.

Begging to differ, but there's no indication that the arc lines extend backwards into the base. From the First Edition Rules Reference (the best authority we currently have):

Quote

A ship’s primary firing arc is the area formed by extending the firing arc lines printed on the front of the ship’s token.

A firing arc extends across the play area.

A ship is inside a firing arc if any part of its base falls inside the area formed by extending the firing-arc lines.

First, we have to assume that the lines only extend forwards of the ship, not backwards into the center hole or beyond. Otherwise, every ship would have their primary arc extend across the play area in both directions, giving them an effective rear arc (which clearly isn't the case).

Given that information, we learn that the arc is formed by extending the firing arc lines. That doesn't explicitly include (or for that matter, exclude) the firing arc lines themselves, as printed on the base... but I think it's telling when it states that the area is formed by extending those lines. To me, that means the area doesn't exist, outside of the extension of those lines. Given that, I interpret the rule as, the firing arc is only what's in front of the ship, NOT itself.

But that's only my interpretation.

The 2.0 rules are probably a better reference until we get the actual rules reference. In 2.0 all ships have 7 defined arcs, all of which have a symbol. There is the bullseye arc, the 4 standard arcs defined by the diagonal lines printed on the cardboard, and the full forward and backward arcs defined by the horizontal hashmarks.

Nowhere in the rules does it state that you extend those lines to determine the arc, but it is implied, as you would not be able to measure attack range inside the arc unless it extended beyond the cardboard. These areas are specifically refered to as arcs, so it would not make sense that the printed arcs were not part of the arcs. If you would not want the arc to affect the ship itself, the text would refer to sonething beyond range 0 or to another ship, not just a ship.

10 hours ago, StephenEsven said:

The rules book is now available but not the reference. Arc however is not range restricted. They extend from the center of the base to the wdge of the playing area.

So even if it souds counter intuitive a ship is in its own arcs. After all thwy are pri ted on the base so rhe base is always in them.

And since Kanan does bot state the ship to be beyond range 0, you as well as any ship at range 0 in the arx should be elligeble.

Arc will be range restricted in the rules ref.

Interesting so Kanan may have some use then if he can still protect himself, but only from targets directly in front of him or behind him. It begs the question does having a turret equipped give him another arc and then you can have 270 degree protection?

4 minutes ago, GILLIES291 said:

Interesting so Kanan may have some use then if he can still protect himself, but only from targets directly in front of him or behind him. It begs the question does having a turret equipped give him another arc and then you can have 270 degree protection?

Kanan only cares if a friendly ship in his firing arc is defending. In first edition, an arc is an arc is an arc; I can't see why that would change in second edition, even if the names of the arcs change (Primary, Turret, etc). The main question is, does arc include self (Range 0-3) or not (Range 1-3)?

Just now, emeraldbeacon said:

Kanan only cares if a friendly ship in his firing arc is defending. In first edition, an arc is an arc is an arc; I can't see why that would change in second edition, even if the names of the arcs change (Primary, Turret, etc). The main question is, does arc include self (Range 0-3) or not (Range 1-3)?

Oh I see that makes sense so he could theoretically always protect himself if his arc includes himself, but other ships would have to be in his front, rear (or turret arc?) to be protected.

Turret arc will almost certainly count.

Now that the Rules Reference is out, the official answer is:

Quote

An arc is an area formed between the lines created by extending hash marks or arc lines printed on a ship token to range 3. A ship is in an arc if any part of its base is inside that area.

Arcs are measured beyond the base of ships. The portion of any object that lies beneath a ship is not in any of those ship’s arcs.

So I think that settles it... since the arc is defined as the area formed by "the lines created by extending," those lines don't include what they are extended FROM. And because "arcs are measured beyond the base of ships," I think it's fairly safe to assume that no ship is within its own firing arc.

To that end, it would seem that Second-Edition Kanan (ship) is not able to protect himself.

On 8/2/2018 at 12:27 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

So I think that settles it... since the arc is defined as the area formed by "the lines created by extending," those lines don't include what they are extended FROM. And because "arcs are measured beyond the base of ships," I think it's fairly safe to assume that no ship is within its own firing arc.

To that end, it would seem that Second-Edition Kanan (ship) is not able to protect himself.

Certainly looks that way, wow Kanan is absolute garbage now haha. Went from being the best of the Ghosts to being the most expensive, and his ability only benefits another Ship, and with a shuttle docked he is more then half your list, to protect what? The Phoenix Squadron A-wing that is all you can afford as a wingman. Oh well RIP Kanan, bring on the Clone Wars!

59 minutes ago, GILLIES291 said:

Certainly looks that way, wow Kanan is absolute garbage now haha. Went from being the best of the Ghosts to being the most expensive, and his ability only benefits another Ship, and with a shuttle docked he is more then half your list, to protect what? The Phoenix Squadron A-wing that is all you can afford as a wingman. Oh well RIP Kanan, bring on the Clone Wars!

I mean, that's what it looks like to me, since he's 14 points more expensive than Hera. However, he does have those two force points and a force-talent slot. Also, the fact that FFG is releasing him at 14 points more expensive than any other VCX kind of suggest to me "maybe he's not too bad... would they make him that expensive if they didn't think he was worth it?" I don't think there are non-force crew/gunners who'd do it, but Kanan can Reinforce and still get dice mods, which is pretty nice.

Hrm. Evaan Verlaine with Selfless is 39 points, maybe toss on a Proton Torpedo for 48. Kanan with either Zeb or AP-5 (that coordinate is pretty nice) docked, that'll be 122-126 before turrets. That'd be nearly 20 more points for upgrades. Seems like something along those lines could work out. A pair of 4-dice attacks to start things off, and a few potential tricks to reduce damage. Evaan could increase Kanan's agility with a focus token coordinated over, and he's got reinforce and Selfless protecting him, or Kanan reduces on attacks to Evaan, who could boost her own agility. Selfless Lowhhrick is also only 7 points more than that Evaan, so he'd also fit.

Meanwhile, the 20 points you'd save with a Lothal Rebel probably don't get you up to a 4 ship build, just a more expensive third or more upgrades.

But on the other hand, Chopper with Kanan crew is cheaper than Kanan VCX, or Chopper + Ezra gunner is the same price...

Bah, this is way off topic now.

Nothing with Force points is ever going to be bad.

Evaan is about the only wingmen I could see with Kanan that could maybe work with his ability but just yeah, Too bad his ability doesn't apply on himself for his cost.

1 minute ago, GILLIES291 said:

Evaan is about the only wingmen I could see with Kanan that could maybe work with his ability but just yeah, Too bad his ability doesn't apply on himself for his cost.

There's always a chance we'll get an FAQ ruling that Kanan does work on himself because Reasons (TM).

Just now, emeraldbeacon said:

There's always a chance we'll get an FAQ ruling that Kanan does work on himself because Reasons (TM).

Here's hoping!

A friend ask me the question, and looking at the rule reference

Quote

A ship’s fiRing aRcs include all shaded arcs on the ship’s ship token plus all turret arcs, if any.

• If an upgrade card gives a ship a turret arc or primary weapon with a specified arc, those arcs are also firing arcs.

I thing Kanan can work on himself. Can't see why not thanks to the quote

4 minutes ago, Grendelator said:

A friend ask me the question, and looking at the rule reference

I thing Kanan can work on himself. Can't see why not thanks to the quote

🤨 First bullet in the Arc section of the Rules Reference, page 3.

"Arcs are measured beyond the base of ships. The portion of any object that lies beneath a ship is not in any of those ship's arcs."

Kanan card is explicit

Quote

While a friendly ship in your firing arc defends, you may spend 1 . If you do, the attacker rolls 1 fewer attack die.

Rules reference for firing arc too

Quote

A ship’s fiRing aRcs include all shaded arcs on the ship’s ship token plus all turret arcs, if any.

• If an upgrade card gives a ship a turret arc or primary weapon with a specified arc, those arcs are also firing arcs.

Both speak of firing arc, not arc.

Or else kanan should be : While a friendly ship in arc defends

3 minutes ago, Grendelator said:

Kanan card is explicit

Rules reference for firing arc too

Both speak of firing arc, not arc.

Or else kanan should be : While a friendly ship in arc defends

Okay. Lets make this even simpler. Go to the FAQ section on page 23. Third question under Arcs...

"Q: Is a ship in its own firing arc?
A: No."

6 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Okay. Lets make this even simpler. Go to the FAQ section on page 23. Third question under Arcs...

"Q: Is a ship in its own firing arc?
A: No."

Ok, looked at the FAQ section, but haven't see those 2 lines

Thanks for the quick answer