I just put together my first Scum list. It really is a mishmash of the stuff I like. I am largely thinking out loud of how one tends to start by making lists that are really just taking what you like, but only with experience do you learn how to make lists with synergy and strategy. I can share my list if you want, but I am mainly just musing on the learning process.
Like now, synergy later
Share it!
N'Dru Suhlak (Z-95 Headhunter)
-hot shot blaster
-predator
Dalan Oberos (Starviper)
-munitions failsafe
-proton torpedoes
-outmaneuver
Viktor Hel (Kihraxz Fighter)
-vaksai
-vectored thrusters
-pulsed ray shield
-ion dischargers
-stealth device
-ion pulse missiles
-marksmanship
1 hour ago, Nohwear said:I just put together my first Scum list. It really is a mishmash of the stuff I like. I am largely thinking out loud of how one tends to start by making lists that are really just taking what you like, but only with experience do you learn how to make lists with synergy and strategy. I can share my list if you want, but I am mainly just musing on the learning process.
I don't think it's so much about experience as it is about "knowing what is in the game and why it is good". Yes, you've got to find the stuff that you like; but chances are, there's a style of flying that you like which also overlaps well with certain cards in the game that are perhaps more effective than others.
Let's take your Dalan build for a specific example. Is it that you like Outmaneuver, the card? Or the concept of Dalan outmaneuvering your opponent?
If it's that you really like the card, then sorry, but you're deriving enjoyment out of a card that's overpriced for an unreliable effect. So...either learn to like other things, or be prepared to play with suboptimal stuff. Outmaneuver, the card, rewards you for being out of your opponent's firing arc (which is already really beneficial so it's icing on the cake). But, the additional reward you get is not worthwhile enough to be worth taking when you can take something else that rewards you better, unconditionally, and still get the standard benefits of outmaneuvering your opponent.
So if you like Dalan, and presumably executing unique moves to outmaneuver your opponent, the best thing to do when building him is to figure out ways to shore up what he can't do when he's doing his thing. First thing is if you're not running him with the SVMk2 title then he's overcosted, there's no reason not to put it on him, and if you don't like curved barrel rolls then don't take that action, you're not doing them anyways when you're using Dalan's pilot ability. Second, if you are using his pilot ability, you're not taking target locks, so he's a really awful proton torpedo carrier (do you want torpedoes or do you want Dalan? I think they're mutually exclusive in the build you've shown). Third, munitions failsafe is just a bad card; why would you take the torpedo attack at all if you expect it to miss? Just take the primary shot and save your target lock for a more favorable opportunity (to be fair there's a couple of super niche janky things that are worthwhile for MF, but just... don't). Guidance chips or bust there, they're cheaper and better, or if you're taking the torps off (which you should, because there are better choices for ordnance carrier) then Autothrusters is the mod you really want. Fourth, you must expect Dalan to be taking stress more frequently than other ships, but you've not built him to be prepared for that. Thing is, typically you want dice mods when playing X-WingTMG, and you expect not to have actions with Dalan when he's doing Dalan things. So Wired or Predator would be good choices for EPT, I'll just straight up guarantee either one will be more effective in the long run than Outmaneuver because those with both give you action-free dice mods (and in the case of Predator, also when he decides he wants to boost/BR/focus). And if you can put the Virago title on, Advanced Sensors or Fire-Control System would also be good ways to patch up the expected loss of action when Dalan does Dalan things.
Thank you for that.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand your dreams of playing a squad you like have been crushed
This is why you don't share your squad. The amount of times I've really liked a squad then had it 'optimised' is too many to mention.
So a lot of the time I don't share them and then try to have a good time
3 minutes ago, SDCC said:This is why you don't share your squad. The amount of times I've really liked a squad then had it 'optimised' is too many to mention.
So a lot of the time I don't share them and then try to have a good time
This is very true. I'm a total amateur but I like to build my own things with my own reasoning. I obviously follow the forums a lot and the Squad List subsection is probably my favourite zone here. So, if I wanted to optimise, I could, just by reading everything, let alone posting for feedback. As soon as you start changing a list based on suggestions, it feels like it moves away from being yours.
And maybe I don't want to optimise! I want to fly what I like. Maybe I shared so you could like it too! But inevitably, there will be something suboptimal you've included because you like it and someone, perhaps everyone, will just go 'BUT AUTOTHRUSTERS!'. And you go, well yeah
That said, my reading here and elsewhere has taught me an awful lot about list building and synergy, as well as provided loads of great ideas. Plus, list discussion is the easiest, funnest discussion to have!
Still, putting things on the table and discovering they're a useless combo is easily the best way to dislike something you thought you liked. I have done this many times since we started playing. Trying different, weird new stuff is the most interesting thing to me. I wish my sons would let me do it more
Building on all the solid advice of Sparklelord.
DALAN's ability and the great curved barrel rolls work best if you move last.
Veteran instincts gets him to PS8 which is great for arc dodging or using his ability to keep someone in arc.
This means you have no dice mods so go ahead and try out the virago title and throw on fire control system.
Autothrusters adds a lot of survivability and is almost auto-include tbh.
Not sure which illicit is best but contraband cybernetics can be amazing in a pinch.
And this build costs 4 points less, so if you wanted to add the Proton Torp you can!
7 hours ago, Nohwear said:N'Dru Suhlak (Z-95 Headhunter)
-hot shot blaster
-predator
N'Dru Suhlak (Z-95 Headhunter)
- Glitterstim
- Lone Wolf
- Vectored Thrusters
Lone Wolf combos so well with N'Dru's pilot ability, I have to recommend it.
Vectored thrusters makes this ship a baby pocket ace.
Glitterstim gives you punch when you need it. Although Hotshot works with his pilot ability and Lone Wolf.
All for the same price.
7 hours ago, Nohwear said:Viktor Hel (Kihraxz Fighter)
-vaksai
-vectored thrusters
-pulsed ray shield
-ion dischargers
-stealth device
-ion pulse missiles
-marksmanship
Viktor Hel (Kihraxz Fighter)
- vaksai
- vectored thrusters
- guidance chips
- scavenger crane
- stealth device
- Cruise missiles
- veteran insincts
Scavenger crane means you will probably pick up the stealth device and proc his pilot ability more often.
Cruise Missile is strong but not OP, plenty of counterplay but packs a punch if you get it off at speed 3/4.
Have fun, use whichever crazy combos you want and if you mainly play casual you probably won't need to craft hyper competitive lists.
I put some of my ideas into a squadbuilder, I also highly recommend using squad builders