18 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

I wouldn't say "bad" until we know the cost. If under the new 200 point system shield and hull are still 4 and 3 points respectively, that might be worth taking for some builds.

But I have to totally agree with you that these are really boring choices.

Tsk-tsk; why wait until you get the app when you can cry DOOM now!

In game terms, if a ship is not worth flying w/o upgrade x, then that is a design/cost issue of the ship. I think mods and other upgrades should be the sprinkles, not the frosting or the cake.

I know SW through the movies. How individually tricked out are ships in SW media?

3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

That makes exactly zero sense in this context. Good job

4 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I know SW through the movies. How individually tricked out are ships in SW media?

Hmm good question. I've read most of the books published 1991-2010 but no other media nor have I read much lately. In those books, there are some slight differences in fighter loadouts such as choice of torps and bombs. Also, some pilots prefer to have their astromech's memory wiped every few months so they just work as a basic navigation system as opposed to getting a personality like Artoo, Chopper and Whistler, so that equates to generics vs unique in game.

Mainly, the fighters are military property and are kept fairly uniform. I think it was mostly just the private freighters and yachts that got the big custom work. Luke and Corran end up owning their X-Wings for decades but I can't recall any big mods, more like creature comfort tweeks to the cockpits.

13 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Mods were always situational unless they were busted (large base EU, thrusters to counter ter busted turrets etc.) They have to be, since they're probably still a largely generic and prevalent upgrade type (which makes them more difficult to balance due to the # of things they can go on)

And I don't get the idea that imps aren't as manueverable anymore. The entire faction isn't going to be made of speed demons (hi, lambda!) but it does reach the absolute pinnacle of manueverability with certain ships' built in capabilities

Namely ailerons (esp the striker), phantom perpetual decloak (illicit cloak can't replicate Stygium array), and the defender white 4k. There's also something to be said for the Alpha wing SLAMing while still being able to shoot, not to mention Deathrain being even more crazy fun than before. Plus there's the interceptor "Push the limit"

And since all those capabilities are built in, you can then throw afterburners atop it all for maximum hilarity

Imps don't need imp specific mods, they're already built into their ships

A striker can end beyond range three from it's starting position, and with the right kit, in a massive band. The ability to reposition like a striker can should not be underestimated.

OP, modifications have always been the most tedious part of the game. Engine upgrade and, if a ship already had boost, autothrusters, are the gotos. Ships that need their actions like Asajj take countermeasures instead, and that's about it except for ship-specific mods. The new stuff's an improvement for me.

9 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

I know SW through the movies. How individually tricked out are ships in SW media?

Almost all military ships are kept 'generically modified', where each ship on all sides of a given conflict get performance boosts correlating to how cool/important that character is. Some exceptions can be made, but are usually their own subclass of ship - like the scouting X-wing with its trailing sensor bubble and lack of weaponry. 'Proper' unique modifications and properties are typically reserved for full-blown protagonists and/or screen characters. Off the top of my head, I remember reading about:

Anakin (And Obi-Wan's) organic ship, the fastest ever built.
The Falcon having 'hyperspace streamlining' to become incredibly fast in hyperspace.
The Outrider being outright amazing in all respects.
A veritable army of author's tools superweapons with unique properties like impenetrable shielding, indestructable hulls, etc.

Most notable for me are covert ops ships like the StealthX (cloaked next-gen X-wing, using jedi-guided bombs), and special ops ships like the many found in the New Jedi Order series. They have most of the cool tricks and opportunities to show them off.

17 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

That makes exactly zero sense in this context. Good job

A place for everything and everything in its place.

19 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

A striker can end beyond range three from it's starting position, and with the right kit, in a massive band. The ability to reposition like a striker can should not be underestimated.

Indeed. Afterburner-equipped striker aces have their weak spots (namely being no tougher than a Z-95!) but I have no issue with their ability to move....

The killer for imps is the Nerf of the evade token, this limits the imperials to 3 defence dice while rebels can throw around 4 red dice which are statistically better and with gunners are likely to roll well. Now that evade tokens no longer add a result it is now unlikely for the imperial player to not get hit when shot at, and that's their whole gimmick

As has been stated repeatedly, on a high agility ship there is almost no difference between old and new evade tokens in practice, only that tiny percent chance that you roll all evades and still need the extra. Virtually all the time the new evades will provide the same benefit. It’s only on low agility ships that they actually got nerfed.

3 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

As has been stated repeatedly, on a high agility ship there is almost no difference between old and new evade tokens in practice, only that tiny percent chance that you roll all evades and still need the extra. Virtually all the time the new evades will provide the same benefit. It’s only on low agility ships that they actually got nerfed.

What he said.

See here for graphs: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/x-wing-tokenology-201-evade-vs-focus-in-2-0.html

5 hours ago, JamesWG said:

What he said.

See here for graphs: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/07/x-wing-tokenology-201-evade-vs-focus-in-2-0.html

I agree. When you work out the math on Lone Wolf Assajj dodging multiple double modded four dice attacks, tell me again that Imperials are worst hit. Or, work out the expected damage against popular 3-PO builds...

I main Imperials and am thrilled with the evade changes. I don’t understand people that maintain otherwise.

1 hour ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I agree. When you work out the math on Lone Wolf Assajj dodging multiple double modded four dice attacks, tell me again that Imperials are worst hit. Or, work out the expected damage against popular 3-PO builds...

I main Imperials and am thrilled with the evade changes. I don’t understand people that maintain otherwise.

Strikers, Aggressors, Phantoms and Reapers disagree with you.

25 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Strikers, Aggressors, Phantoms and Reapers disagree with you.

The reaper's evade in 2.0 is just... weird. I think it must have been kept for combo silliness with vizier... and then vizier got changed.

5 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Strikers, Aggressors, Phantoms and Reapers disagree with you.

For the most part, even they aren't too badly hit.

Strikers are an agility 2 ship. You'd evade if damaged and/or running away, but you'd do so at the cost of a focus token.

Getting a natural double-evade is possible, but only comes up about 14% of the time. Given that the changes to evade only make a difference if you get a double evade and you took a 3+ hit attack (which are also supposed to be a touch less common), I think the change to evade is an issue but frankly the lack of lightweight frame is a bigger one.

Aggressors' evade action is....kind of irrelevant, frankly, since it only exists on the far side of a linked barrel roll. If there's some cunning shenanigans associated with Juke, maybe, otherwise I can't see it being used often.

Phantoms evade is a special case given the stygium array.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

For the most part, even they aren't too badly hit.

Strikers are an agility 2 ship. You'd evade if damaged and/or running away, but you'd do so at the cost of a focus token.

Getting a natural double-evade is possible, but only comes up about 14% of the time. Given that the changes to evade only make a difference if you get a double evade and you took a 3+ hit attack (which are also supposed to be a touch less common), I think the change to evade is an issue but frankly the lack of lightweight frame is a bigger one.

Aggressors' evade action is....kind of irrelevant, frankly, since it only exists on the far side of a linked barrel roll. If there's some cunning shenanigans associated with Juke, maybe, otherwise I can't see it being used often.

Phantoms evade is a special case given the stygium array.

Actually, "Double Edge" could really get consistent damage output with Juke, likely hitting every round. Plus, depending on how the Aggressor slots work, you could potentially carry two different kinds of missiles with munitions fail-safe for a janky missile boat.

17 hours ago, Praetorate of the Empire said:

Plus, depending on how the Aggressor slots work, you could potentially carry two different kinds of missiles with munitions fail-safe for a janky missile boat

Nice call on double edge for juke double-tap. The problem with missiles is that most of them (all of them?) need a token, and if you're doing barrel roll/link/red evade, you won't have the focus or target lock required for firing the missile.

I'm sure there's a way round it with some combination of upgrades but right now it seems like more trouble than it's worth.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Nice call on double edge for juke double-tap. The problem with missiles is that most of them (all of them?) need a token, and if you're doing barrel roll/link/red evade, you won't have the focus or target lock required for firing the missile.

I'm sure there's a way round it with some combination of upgrades but right now it seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Mm, yeah, didn't think of that... I suppose he could be Coordinated something before or after he activates, but having to Coordinate anything to get a desired effect seems... troublesome.

I don't recall ever seeing LRS for 2.0. Maybe it'll come around later, since the effect is definitely in the game, but that could do the trick.

18 minutes ago, Praetorate of the Empire said:

I don't recall ever seeing LRS for 2.0. Maybe it'll come around later, since the effect is definitely in the game, but that could do the trick.

E-wings (randomly) have acquired something that looks suspiciously like Long Range Scanners as a ship ability:

I suspect - since they're essentially the 'TIE defender equivalent' super-fighter, it's intended as a way to allow them to get a stack of tokens without using linked actions - in this case focus/target lock (with R3 astromechs letting them lock multiple opponents to boot) rather than the defender's focus/evade.

12 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

E-wings (randomly)

It's because FFG has decided that the E-Wing's niche is going to be 'long range'. The A-Wing is fast, the Y-Wing is tough, the B-Wing is heavily armed, the X-Wing is the all rounder and now the E-Wing is the long range sharpshooter, rather than just being 'half X-Wing, half A-Wing'.

Their ability in Armada is similar, it lets them shoot at ranges beyond what squadrons can normally do. Having a ship in X-Wing that can actually shoot beyond range 3 would be broken as ****, so they've compromised and given them an action they can do at longer range instead.

8 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

It's because FFG has decided that the E-Wing's niche is going to be 'long range'. The A-Wing is fast, the Y-Wing is tough, the B-Wing is heavily armed, the X-Wing is the all rounder and now the E-Wing is the long range sharpshooter, rather than just being 'half X-Wing, half A-Wing'.

Their ability in Armada is similar, it lets them shoot at ranges beyond what squadrons can normally do. Having a ship in X-Wing that can actually shoot beyond range 3 would be broken as ****, so they've compromised and given them an action they can do at longer range instead.

I forgot they had Snipe in Armada. Given that they (currently) exist in the backdrop of some comics but we know nothing else about them beyond what we see in the FFG games, that's a nice touch of consistency.

Plus, it allows for a target lock-driven effects which do work at longer ranges (say, an anti-huge ship torpedo come 2nd edition epic).