13 minutes ago, agenttherock said:

The only mod I can think of that I really miss is targeting computer, seemed like a thematic one as you could slap one on an interceptor and although it was good at offense with PTL it actually doesn't add too much when you can't focus/lock every round with interceptors, it just added a bit more flexibility to your actions, seems like it would be be a good offensive mod that isn't overpowered unlike something like guidance chips that was introduced to fix ordnance and would likely be busted as a 0 point mod in 2.0. I'm hoping they add it back in at some point but not holding my breath since it's not in the conversions. Could be missing something power-level wise but otherwise it seems a little unnecessary to cut it.

I'm not for bringing back 1.0 mechanics. But you COULD remake these mods with 2.0 design mentality.

They could be balanced by drawbacks too. For example:

Lightweight frame:

When defending, you may re-roll 1 defense die.

All damage cards are dealt to you face up.

It doesn't add an extra defense die, because that's a no-no, and has a weakness, but removes the requirements.

OR

Guidance chips

When attacking with a [torp] or [missile] weapon, you may turn 1 hit to 1 crit.

I still think the loss of MK II and the absence of dial modification for imperials is atrocious and should be rectified immediately.

I think that ships are being built with the possibility of running more than one sort of forces the mods to weaker.

well the mods slot has always sucked when it comes to variety

Like @theBitterFig said, I actually like that the factionless upgrades are simple and boring. That means they are hard for everyone to exploit and easily defined and used.

I would love to see an Imperial only upgrade slot, but have no idea what kind of slot the devs could possibly add to the game. Even Configs really only apply to the Gunboat, though if they dig maybe we could see some more configs for other ships.

If we see Imperial stuff, I assume we'll just see an assortment of Imperial only. I'm not really missing an Astromech slot on my TIE Advanced or a crew on my Punsiher (though it'd be sweet). I guess I'm just content to try and outfly my opponents rather than rely on Upgrade superiority, which is what the Empire has been doing for much of the game anyhow.

The largest nerf to the Empire is not the lack of an exclusive upgrade type (not that I would mind one), but the fact that every other faction got a ton of extra maneuverability in the form of upgraded dials and new repositioning actions. The Empire is now much less maneuverable than they used to be in comparison. What did we get in exchange? We lost evade actions and agility value and attack dice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited for 2.0, but unless our ships got a lot cheaper, the Empire didn't really gain much in comparison, and that makes me sad.

29 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The largest nerf to the Empire is not the lack of an exclusive upgrade type (not that I would mind one), but the fact that every other faction got a ton of extra maneuverability in the form of upgraded dials and new repositioning actions. The Empire is now much less maneuverable than they used to be in comparison. What did we get in exchange? We lost evade actions and agility value and attack dice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited for 2.0, but unless our ships got a lot cheaper, the Empire didn't really gain much in comparison, and that makes me sad.

This is why I've been saying they better increase the number of ships I can field by 1 across the board, or else, I'll be flipping tables.

Show me that Swarm play and how is it the imperial faction identity. Prove it FFG.

7 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Am I wrong? I know you will say yes, but convince me the sky is not falling, and mods are actually worthwhile upgrades that help ships, and the "imperials get extra mod slots" isn't actually an empty promise that helps no one.

I wouldn't say "bad" until we know the cost. If under the new 200 point system shield and hull are still 4 and 3 points respectively, that might be worth taking for some builds.

But I have to totally agree with you that these are really boring choices.

7 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

I wouldn't say "bad" until we know the cost. If under the new 200 point system shield and hull are still 4 and 3 points respectively, that might be worth taking for some builds.

But I have to totally agree with you that these are really boring choices.

We sorta know from the threat cards that they will be more expensive.

I don't think we will see a very drastic price change for most non-problematic cards. Shield upgrade was 4 points, I don't think we will see it under 6 in the new system... Which is really not great for these TIE-s. And this is my optimistic estimation.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

"I guess I take shield upgrade then".... Which, as stated, is the most boring upgrade in the game.

I think the idea is that they're not a necessity. They are nice to have's. Chuck one on if its beneficial, if not don't take one at all. I imagine this is to prevent mods heavily augmenting ship identities. Same goes for the new Talent upgrades.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Why only the scum and rebels get access to dial upgrades?

What are you referring too? (genuine *unloaded* question)

18 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I think the idea is that they're not a necessity. They are nice to have's. Chuck one on if its beneficial, if not don't take one at all. I imagine this is to prevent mods heavily augmenting ship identities. Same goes for the new Talent upgrades.

What are you referring too? (genuine *unloaded* question)

Yeah, but you do understand why is that problematic with multiple mod slots being one of the empire's thing, right?

The astromech that upgrades your dial. r3? r4? not sure.

17 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah, but you do understand why is that problematic with multiple mod slots being one of the empire's thing, right?

The astromech that upgrades your dial. r3? r4? not sure.

I didn't take that as an 'imperial thing' when I saw it. Their are other ships with multiple mods. If it is supposed to be the Imp schtick then yes that's pretty troubling.

Right the astro!

Boring or not, i hope they are cheap enough, so i can slap a shield upgrade on my interceptors, so they don't die too fast due to my incompetence.

But sincerely i prefer if they keep the game with less cards on the board.

4 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The  Empire is now much less maneuvera  ble than they used to be in comparison. What  did we get in exchange? We lost evade actions and agility value and attack dice.

I‘m not sure that‘s true. Agility is mostly the same, attack went down for the Phantom only, and evade is almost identical for high agi ships.

All are less maneuverable, but the empire retained (linked) repositioning

Are modifications bad?

• Depends on the cost. Which can vary on a ship-to-ship basis, apparently.
  • The 'threat level' cards are admittedly a bit guff, but then I'm filing that one under "we need to make a squad using just the cards in the box" - Anyone who tried a game using two TIE fighters (any pilots in the core set!) versus Luke with R2-D2 will remember how balanced that was(n't).
  • A Red Squadron Veteran with Predator, S-Foils and R5 versus a Black Squadron Ace with Afterburners, Shield Upgrade and Outmanoeuvre....is not too bad, actually. With the Black Squadron having the higher initiative and afterburners and barrel roll, you should have to screw up by the numbers to get boresighted, so predator is (hopefully) a non-issue, whilst outmanoeuvre is a lot easier to trigger, just needing to be out of the X-wing's arc of fire. So it's essentially 6-8 hits (the R5 regen eats an action, so no focus, so it's not quite as good as an extra hit - let's split the difference and call it 7?) behind 1-2 green dice (depending on how often the TIE gets out of arc shots), versus 4 hits behind 3 green dice. Yes, 2 red dice versus 3, but if you're getting outmanoeuvre the TIE still has more red dice than you have green dice, and by definition you're not getting a shot back at all.
• I agree shield and hull upgrades are essentially just 'I had spare points and slots' cards. Which is what they were when first introduced, to be fair.
• I'm not saying they're that great. But without points I can't really decide. After all, a 1-2 point shield upgrade is a big part of what makes a TIE/fo superior to a TIE/ln, so if that's what it costs....
  • Without shield regen (aside from Gonk droids) a shield upgrade has limited real value on most ships, but we'll wait and see what the pricing is like.
  • A bomblet generator being able to 'eat' a shield token to reload a charge makes it more appealing.
  • Don't underestimate a shield token on an ace TIE's ability to lift it out of one-shot-kill range. Not enough to justify paying 4 (8) points for, but that's a balancing act.
  • Afterburners are going to be awesome for an arc-dodging heavy faction. I so, so want to try afterburner-equipped strikers.
  • Electronic Baffle - not for small ships! But the fact that it's now a modification with no prerequisites means anyone can equip it. And removing a red token of your choice - stress and presumably ion are red. Do we know if target lock tokens are red? Being able to burn off a lock might well be worth a point for something beefy like a Bomber or Punisher.
  • Munitions Failsafe - I agree it's situational, but that's the point of imperials-have-multiple-mods being an advantage; if it's free (or near enough so), then a missile armed TIE bomber has this, whilst a torpedo armed Y-wing doesn't, if there's a second mod you want.
  • Static Discharge Vanes - very situational, because ion and jam tokens aren't too common. But a nice-to-have if it's more or less free.
  • I agree that I think afterburners is the best mod going at the moment (by some margin). I'd basically consider - especially for imperial fighters - that multiple mods means 'afterburners and something else'.

Mods were always situational unless they were busted (large base EU, thrusters to counter ter busted turrets etc.) They have to be, since they're probably still a largely generic and prevalent upgrade type (which makes them more difficult to balance due to the # of things they can go on)

And I don't get the idea that imps aren't as manueverable anymore. The entire faction isn't going to be made of speed demons (hi, lambda!) but it does reach the absolute pinnacle of manueverability with certain ships' built in capabilities

Namely ailerons (esp the striker), phantom perpetual decloak (illicit cloak can't replicate Stygium array), and the defender white 4k. There's also something to be said for the Alpha wing SLAMing while still being able to shoot, not to mention Deathrain being even more crazy fun than before. Plus there's the interceptor "Push the limit"

And since all those capabilities are built in, you can then throw afterburners atop it all for maximum hilarity

Imps don't need imp specific mods, they're already built into their ships

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

It would be fine, if Imps had their own slot. They don't, instead part of their faction identity is to get more of these mods. That makes it bad.

I still kinda think these are two (mostly) separate issues. The problem isn't modifications, or Imps not getting a slot their own, but that Imps don't get small perks, now that their repositioning advantage is gone. I don't want to go back to the days when a ship was either good or not depending on whether or not it could take Autothrusters or Lightweight Frame. I dislike that kind of design. While Imperial design has fewer options, I don't really think that's a good solution.

I really ****ing wish FFG would just release a draft app, so we could start playing with preliminary points costs and begin to understand. This entire threat could be moot if the prices are right. But we have no ****ing clue and so we're debating stuff in a useless thread because so much of the most important information is just missing.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Show me that Swarm play and how is it the imperial faction identity. Prove it FFG.

My impression from the unboxing is that the Imperial faction identity is list-wide buffs and Coordinating command ships.

For example, it makes sense for Imperial dials to be worse by comparison if the Empire has the superior ability to throw around Coordinated boosts or barrel rolls, or have higher action economy because they were able to get early or free locks from Colonel Jendon or Grand Moff Tarkin.

As far as "intented theme" goes, that was the feeling that I got.

8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

But  we have no ****ing clue and so we're debating stuff in a useless thread because so much  of the most important information is just missin  g   . 

I‘d argue that‘s a good thing. This allows all players to discover lists, which is an unique opportunity that won‘t last long.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I‘d argue that‘s a good thing. This allows all players to discover lists, which is an unique opportunity that won‘t last long.

Personally, I think three months of impossible arguments aren't worth like two weeks, max, of discovery.

I will aslo miss LWF. However, I think being able to boost the very much improved Punisher and the (kinda?) improved bomber to greater heights of evasion would have been bad for the game. That being said, I'm expecting low low prices (these deals are CRAZY!) for the aggressor and an honest to God 3 agility on the TIE/SF when they finally re-release it.

But, yeah. Aggressor vs. Y-wing (just based on stats) is no longer even close anymore. 1 extra defense die doesn't equate to 3 extra total health.

11 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

I will aslo miss LWF. However, I think being able to boost the very much improved Punisher and the (kinda?) improved bomber to greater heights of evasion would have been bad for the game. That being said, I'm expecting low low prices (these deals are CRAZY!) for the aggressor and an honest to God 3 agility on the TIE/SF when they finally re-release it.

But, yeah. Aggressor vs. Y-wing (just based on stats) is no longer even close anymore. 1 extra defense die doesn't equate to 3 extra total health.

I honestly expected to see the Striker and Aggressor jump up to 3 agility when they killed LWF. That didn't happen. I wouldn't hold my breath on the TIE/sf getting the third agility or evade action or good dial that it should have.

17 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

I honestly expected to see the Striker and Aggressor jump up to 3 agility when they killed LWF. That didn't happen. I wouldn't hold my breath on the TIE/sf getting the third agility or evade action or good dial that it should have.

I do expect that Tech will still be a slot available to Resistance and First Order, so it'll still probably have access to Sensor Cluster and Comm Relay, provided they carry over.

The 2.0 Redpill is that all upgrades are bad except for Proton Torps, Advanced Sensors, and some of the unchanged like Pereceptive Co-pilot and Juke. It's hard to even pick additional upgrades because they just feel like they're not worth the points anymore.

4 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

The 2.0 Redpill is that all upgrades are bad except for Proton Torps, Advanced Sensors, and some of the unchanged like Pereceptive Co-pilot and Juke. It's hard to even pick additional upgrades because they just feel like they're not worth the points anymore.

But we don't know prices. We can still talk about relative value or even make educated guesses about what something will cost, but saying, "Most upgrades are overpriced" makes no sense when we don't know prices.

23 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I purposefully did not bring up 1.0, since the past is not relevant.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.