Idea.

Adar Tallon plus Ketsu Onyo (maybe add AFFM or Fighter Coordination team).

Activate Ketsu, use Tallon, move again during the squadron phase due to rogue and shutdown or severely slow enemy fighter wings at extreme range.

With all the upgrades above she could move speed 11 in one round. Even hampers Dengar blobs by forcing them to stop and deal with her slowing them enough to give rebel fighters the alpha strike.

Thoughts?

Not sure I’m getting this. Currently playing a Sloane list with the standard Dengar blob and it looks like a free 22 points to me, especially if it is going to be that far away from the rest of your squadrons. I have never used Ketsu before, but it seems like being alone against that would just get her chewed up for no reason before her ability even has a chance to make a difference.

The idea is to send Ketsu in to engage an Imperial blob (which is typically very fast moving) or a key component of it when that blob is still extremely far from anything it wants to engage with in order to reduce said blob's ability to pounce or travel for one to two turns. An ace like Dengar or Rhymer is supposed to be providing a supporting power to an entire group without whom their effectiveness diminishes considerably. If you force Dengar down to speed two, suddenly the squadron has a choice. Travel at speed two to keep the Dengar effect (slows them down) , engage Ketsu (takes at least a turn if you don't want to split the group) or leave Dengar behind (the blob losses the Dengar effect).

No matter what direction the Imperials approach from, Ketsu can always pounce them before they get close. The extra turn now lets the rebels potentially move in to alpha strike the Imperials or work on bombing ships for a turn without worrying about getting jumped on by a fully functioning squadron ball. Remember that the most imp squadron balls need a carrier commanding them. Even with a quasar commanding 6 squadrons that means using 3 or 4 to kill Ketsu and only having 2 or 3 left over which you probably don't want to move alone.

They key is the extreme range. There's no avoiding her since she travels too far. The benefit is a one (maybe two) turn disrupted squadron ball you have to make the most of.

Against TIE bombers or TIE Fighters she is only a minor pain. Fighters in a Dengar blob can of course shoot Ketsu and then move (slower) towards the enemy and keep doing this until she dies. If this would get them alpha struk then they can just stay where they are and delay a turn or move towards the rebels even less to stay out of Speed 3 + range 1 distance. Not too tricky to kill Ketsu with only 4 hull and by your example there is nothing else to shoot at. If Ketsu has some escorts (obviously X-wings are slower and can't Tallon double move with her but you could instead do this a turn later) it would keep her alive longer to be more of an annoyance but you would also probably be closer to your fleet so even slower speed Bombers may be a threat to your ships. Corrupter , Vector and AFFM on a Cymoon can all upset things more.

Against Rebel opposition I think Ketsu is superior. Naturally Speed 3 rebels Like X, Y-wings & Jan will suffer more. Preventing Jan getting to where she is needed to apply her intel is well worth the cost.

In a sense I guess my strategy is being informed by how my friend likes to fly. He tends to move his Dengar blob to just outside my (rebel) starfighters' range so I can't jump him while he can jump me.

Using Ketsu I hope to stop him from doing this ideally coupled with a last-first advantage.

1) since he can't jump me he shoots Ketsu and holds off since he doesn't want to split up the blob and lose the Dengar effect.

2) after he's activated I move my starfighters (and maybe the Yavaris) towards his starfighters

3) next turn I activate first and jump him preventing the imperial alpha strike

6 minutes ago, Garrett17 said:

In a sense I guess my strategy is being informed by how my friend likes to fly. He tends to move his Dengar blob to just outside my (rebel) starfighters' range so I can't jump him while he can jump me.

Using Ketsu I hope to stop him from doing this ideally coupled with a last-first advantage.

1) since he can't jump me he shoots Ketsu and holds off since he doesn't want to split up the blob and lose the Dengar effect.

2) after he's activated I move my starfighters (and maybe the Yavaris) towards his starfighters

3) next turn I activate first and jump him preventing the imperial alpha strike

that will work once, as best.

It just occurred to me this probably goes great with Rieekan. The imps couldn't even split the blob now.

He just make everything better doesn't he?

Actually, if you bring Dash you can basically repeat the Adar Tallon effect thanks to Rieekan.

Dutch, Jan, Biggs, YT-1300, Ten Numb, Dash commanded by a Rieekan/Adar Tallon Pelta command ship with expanded hanger bays to command 5 per turn and jump the imperials. Ketsu gives the rebel blob a chance to move in and strike first with Dash guaranteed to attack once on the turn you close thanks to Tallon/rogue, twice the turn after and twice again the round after that because the enemy likely has to shoot through the Biggs/yt-1300 escorts first.

Dash alpha striking with his re-rolls and guaranteed to shoot 5 times in a game? That's probably worth two enemy aces and the disruption of whatever synergy they were putting out.

Alternatively, use the yavaris and two a wings. Since the squad fight hasn't started yet, FCT the A wings forward and then send them in on opposite sides of the blob. At least this way you are doing 6 blues of damage +counter 2 and completely preventing some squads from moving.

True. The nice thing about this is that it allows you setup to the positioning of the fight because you're the one pouncing now so you can even potentially avoid engaging any escorts and cut right to the critical fighters in the blob.

Or we use Independence to launch Ketsu and as many YT-1300s as possible.

4 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Or we use Independence to launch Ketsu and as many YT-1300s as possible.

In my experience she just gets Flight-Cobtrolled-Saber-Jendon-Maulered at that point, leaving a bunch of YTs out there tying up Mauler...

51 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Or we use Independence to launch Ketsu and as many YT-1300s as possible.

Sorry I should clarify the scenario type I'm countering a bit more. The Ketsu slingshot is for when the (Imperial) enemy has moved to a position to engage you next turn while simultaneously maintaining enough distance that you can't preemtively engage them due to the typical speed difference. You could try A-wings but Dengar will means they can just ignore you or outflank you and a-wings only push 3 blues. A Sloane ball is usually something like Dengar, Howlrunner, Mauler, Vader, Jendon and Marek or some variant therof all bunched together so Howlrunner, Dengar and Fel can increase the group's damage on both their turn and when shot at. Vader blocks attempts to shoot at others and since the imps jump first they get to control the positioning.

Flinging Ketsu with Rieekan and AFFM means:

Turn A

Ketsu leaps forward and shuts down their range for 1 turn and gets a shot during the squadron phase. Ideally against Dengar.

Turn B

You move your fighters forward but stay out of the imperials reduced engagement range but now you get to jump them on turn C unless they back off. They'll kill Ketsu but not before Rieekan gives her one more shot. You Tallon w/Dash and now Dash gets a shot with rerolls. All shots should be devoted to killing Dengar.

Turn C

You go first and slam hard into the Imperials with a pelta with sqaudron 5, Toryn Farr and flak support. Since you pounced first you can position away from any escorts. One more shot should kill Dengar at this point which locks down the group so no Mauler splashing and stops most of their counters. Take down Howlrunner or Fel next depending on how you positioned and use Dutch on Marek to shut down one of his attacks. Pull the Tallon Dash trick again and Dash gets another 4 blue with rerolls attack at the end of the round.

Finally, the imps shoot back but he should be down two or three aces now and in bad shape because you've had 7 attacks already and both were critical to his group offensive ability. Put the escorts covering Dash so you can keep redirecting fire into the YT-1300 from Biggs and use Jan to support it if attacked directly. Rieekan means Biggs at least isn't going anywhere leaving him firing ineffectually for the round as biggs can keep passing damage to the YT-1300 and using Jan to back him up.

Turn D

You go first. Clean him out. Remember he's locked down now and Dash should be delivering his usual two shots thanks to Rieekan.

Ok but you seem overconfident that Ketsu lives through turn A and is still reducing imperial movement during B. She’s alone in their ball during the turn A squadron phase (or else you’ve waited so long into the squad phase that she’s not slowing them up).

That's what Rieekan is for.

Ketsu will likely die but the effect will persist until the end of turn B

Assuming you have last activation and move her on your last ship activation during turn A that means the Imps can't touch her and she can move twice back to back to just about wherever position she likes. With AFFM she also gets a move of 5 and then 4 for a total of 9 and a threat range of 10+ in one completely unimpeded turn.

They'll never catch her and the Imps don't have a lot of rogues, Usually they run by carrier which means they don't go during the squadron phase at all.

Even if you don't go last, remember that Ketsu has grit and is a scatter ace with 4 health so it takes at least two to pin her and on average 4 4-blue dice attacks to kill her and they would themselves be slowed which would drag three or four fighters away from an imp squadron ball to start. And if they don't kill her Rieekan keeps her alive for full turn dragging down the strike range of that whole group. Just move her into a position within strike range of your fighters during her ship activation and dare them to jump her before the squadron phase because if do they'll have to suffer your alpha strike next turn in which case Ketsu has still done her job (and might even live to tell about it now).

Any Imp squad ball who realizes what might be about to happen in advance would have to give her such a wide berth that they might as well sit out the game altogether.

What if the Imperial player uses their first turn to token and leaves the squadrons to move on their own. That's much more common in my experience. So now you threw Ketsu into an inactivated ball. Or you need to outnumber their squad activations.

Only sling Ketsu when the Imperials are just about to pounce you.

If the Imperial player knows what he's doing and your squads are together he'll want to attack all at once and in force (otherwise he's asking to be shot to pieces one-by-one by isolating his squads). At the start of the game he won't be in range so he'll try to move up but will stop once outside your attack range but inside of his so on the next turn he can activate his squadron command and attack. When he's moved to that position sling Ketsu.

Just be careful of your distance as you approach. You need to force him to stop once before engaging you to set up for his attack. That's when you act and turn the tables for one round. Now you can (carefully) approach without fear.

And of course you have to be first (and ideally last activation) or this won't work.

You seem pretty intent on trying this (which isn’t a bad thing), so try it and post in the Battle Reports sub-forum how it goes. Store Championship season is an excellent time to try new things and test out unique builds. Good luck!

I am thinking this will work better with an msu with just Ketsu as squad support. Buy a turn/half a turn to blow up the carrier

What does Ketsu do to a Speed 5 TIE Defender who is being allowed to move at speed 2 by Admiral Chiraneau?

Does the TIE-D go from speed 5 to 3 and then Chiraneau is applied to bring it down to speed 2?

Or is it speed 2 for Chiraneau then reduced to 1 from Ketsu?

If the Defender is moving only by Chiraneau's ability, then it moves at 1 after Ketsu's effect. Chirpy treats the printed speed as 2, which is then the Defender 'official' speed for that move.

Much as I like Ketsu, this method of using her seems horribly gimmicky. If I saw her get activated, sent towards me early on and Talloned, I'd have 1) kept the most dangerous fighters I have inactive until the last moment so they could hit her if she tries to approach and 2) spread out the rest so she can't tie up too many. Either way, Ten with some escorts, Adar, Yavaris and possibly Toryn and/or cotrollers is a much stronger counter to Sloane blob than Ketsu could ever hope to be and you don't need to throw a 22 point squad into the middle of the enemy formation to make him work.

6 hours ago, Lightrock said:

Much as I like Ketsu, this method of using her seems horribly gimmicky. If I saw her get activated, sent towards me early on and Talloned, I'd have 1) kept the most dangerous fighters I have inactive until the last moment so they could hit her if she tries to approach and 2) spread out the rest so she can't tie up too many. Either way, Ten with some escorts, Adar, Yavaris and possibly Toryn and/or cotrollers is a much stronger counter to Sloane blob than Ketsu could ever hope to be and you don't need to throw a 22 point squad into the middle of the enemy formation to make him work.

Assuming you can activate after Ketsu does otherwise you'll have to stay outside a range of about 10.

And if you do, how do you react if Ketsu is positioned between you and a rebel fighter wing (which is what i advocate)? If the rebels go first are you willing to be alpha struck over just her? Also unless you commit at least three squads a scatter ace typically survives a couple of shots at least. Are you willing to break up your Sloane blob for one enemy squad? That will cost you some synergy.

Anyways, I'll test it this weekend (hopefully) and see how it goes.

This strikes me as overthinking how to solve a problem of list matchups using Ketsu, or as an earlier poster mentioned, gimmicky.

i think one of the biggest benefits for Ketsu is two blue bomber dive, speed 4, rogue, plus scatter. That’s just asking for a plink plink on enemy ships with the scatter flipping against their anti-squadron shot. In a sense, that makes her like the anti-ship version of Dash’s strong antisquad attack though note that dash is stronger against ships than a generic YT and Ketsu’s tokens make her stronger versus squadrons than a generic shadow master. Both are versatile with slightly different specializations.

The don’t move so fast ability really needs to be more of a fighter trap in a superiority game where you move in with a big hit and then fire away again smashing their squadrons to bits. Flak can play a role in this two. I find it pretty difficult to pull off in practice.

in the new meta that often has 2-4 rogue squadrons mixed in with the 2-6 non rogues, she probably has a place in some build.