Now that we have confirmation of what is in the kits and what the abilities look like going forward biggest question becomes what is the scarier of these two?

The Phantoms were balanced and changed overall. Echo is unchanged while Whisper has the potential to increase her odds of recloaking. Also pre movement decloaking and planning can be tough to capture while being a bit more player friendly for the users to know where they will likely end up when all is said and done.

Strikers basically went unchanged at all. Duchess actually got better if you didn’t think that was possible. Her ability to use or ignore her Ailerons at will regardless of stress cannot be understated.

They hit the same, move differently but still end up in all kinds of possible locations. The Phantom is slightly tougher, though the Strikers have more Aces and likely should be a bit cheaper on the whole. So is there an option that you would rather NOT see across the table between the two in the upcoming 2.0?

Phantoms have changed so much that I don’t think we can really judge just yet. They are going to play radically differently and we can’t really predict just how yet.

Yeah, Duchess is nuts; I'm really excited to give her more time now.

I'm looking at a combination of Strikers, Phantoms, and Interceptors to make a nasty arc-dodging aces list. Definitely not the most durable of lists, but the amount of maneuvering tricks should be really fun.

Other point: they're both 2 agility, but the TIE phantom can get up to 4 defense dice, presuming cloaking remains the same. Lightweight Frame did not make it into the conversion kit, strikers will be easier to hit. However, as @Forgottenlore said, we just don't know enough about how TIE phantoms fly. They may spend enough time not shooting that strikers become the easier to use craft. Who knows?

I'll tell you this: as excited as I am for TIE strikers and TIE interceptors, my play style is all about the support craft. I'm very excited to see how Reapers, Decimators, and Lambdas can support these nimble fighters!

56 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

@Forgottenlore

I'll tell you this: as excited as I am for TIE strikers and TIE interceptors, my play style is all about the support craft. I'm very excited to see how Reapers, Decimators, and Lambdas can support these nimble fighters!

The game is going to heavily skew in your favour then, as most double mods will come from that support ship playstyle from what I can tell.

We get bombs on strikers as stated by the devs, and possibly a gunner slot, while LWF is definitely gone. Saying they haven't changed at all is bit of a stretch.

Strikers can be played like they were before, but also with more options. We'll see.

I am a little worried about strikers.. they died pretty quick in 1.0 with their 2.5 agility. With that gone I am not too sure how well they will survive although a lot of the big nasties are now gone in 2.0, which works in their favour.

I predict a heavy ordnance meta, and green dice are for the most part, a paper thin defense. Anything with less than 5 "health" points is essentially asking for a one-shot, so phantoms have a little edge here.

One of my biggest questions is about the crew slot of the phantom. If it still has it, it may go into its new life as an unkillable crew carrier. There would be nothing stopping you from putting 2.0 Krennic or Sloan on the cheapest (even more cheap now that they don't have a 4 dice primary) phantom and just decloak boost all over the **** place. A force using crew memeber would even be good. Heck, you could use Vader crew to damage people without ever having to decloak.

This isn't 1.0; from what I've seen, Imperial crew cards look **** strong...they just probably cost a lot.

Throwing my hat in the phantom ring, points pending

Decloak in an era where manuevering may actually matter + just about the only worthwhile juke platform = cautious optimism

Imo, Stygium array is crazy good if you can plot it out right. It lets you arcdodge and recloak (regardless of stress, so you can 4k after getting your evade and then recloak) without having to attack

Pre-engagement you can also decloak --> roll --> recloak for amazing positioning. And ofc free evade when you get caught is nice

from base abilities alone, imo the phantom is top dog of the small ships. Obviously defender is also nuts, but we know it'll be pricey as ****

maneuvering is far more important now that turretspam isnt a thing and even if you do see turrets theyre dodgable.

Which is points to the Phantom

However until we got costs theres no real way to say which is better. Without knowing costs it probably comes down to whats more important to you: better evasion (decloaks) or more bombs (since we know the striker has one)

I have a bad feeling the phantom will prove to simply not be reduced in cost enough. And even if everything is digital, do we honestly expect FFG to reduce prices to help a struggling ship?
Remember it was half a list expensive before. If they only dropped it by 3-5pts comparatively, it will be WAY too expensive because it cant insta-recloak anymore and lacks the huge gun.

A 3 point drop (6 in 2.0) would be fine because you've put them in Xwing territory

And I'd take Stygium array over a hull any day

I guarantee they’ll get a huge point drop. This was the whole thought process on taking their primary down to 3. They decided they wanted them to be slippery pests, not half a list.

Also calling the slot now as a gunner.

Gunner for what though?

It has no ordnance or turrets or cannons. Either in 1.e or officially. The second seat was a navigator person.

6 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

I predict a heavy ordnance meta, and green dice are for the most part, a paper thin defense. Anything with less than 5 "health" points is essentially asking for a one-shot, so phantoms have a little edge here.

You may be right, but in my experience, 4 hull on the TIE strikers has been just enough to prevent one-shot-syndrome. You know, compared to the Alpha Sq. Pilots I flew religiously from about Wave 4 to the end of the Palp meta. Those guys could pop, and I have been pleased with the durability of TIE strikers. Now true, lacking Lightweight Frame does put them in more dangerous territory, but your opponent has to roll all hits on the ordnance roll and you have to blank out on the defense roll. I really think strikers will be alright here. And whether you have 2 "health" left or 1, that next missile/torpedo is probably going to destroy you.

Now the way the two ships move/shoot is completely different, and I think it depends on your play style. TIE strikers can turn their guns around on a dime, to keep pressure on the opponent, favoring a more aggressive play style. The TIE phantom, I can only imagine, will favor a more patient play style.

I've playtested the new Phantom stats and Stygium ability at home in a couple light 1.0 settings (so obviously next to useless context, lol). Quite excited by their new niche but I found having to use the evade on defence dug a pretty deep hole for it to climb out of.

I'm a bad pilot and it's by no means any kind of indicator of what's to come but it did give me pause for thought. Feel like it'll be a very risky ship.

They said on stream the phantom was redesigned to cost less which is absolutely fantastic for someone like me who is really bad at X-Wing but still wants to play phantoms.

So in this similar vein where are Intercepters fitting into this equation? Post Maneuver reposition vs pre movement and likely in a similar price as the Strikers and slightly less than a phantom. Again assuming similar pricing to 1.0. Obviously that could rend a conversation mute.

16 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Throwing my hat in the phantom ring, points pending

Decloak in an era where manuevering may actually matter + just about the only worthwhile juke platform = cautious optimism

Imo, Stygium array is crazy good if you can plot it out right. It lets you arcdodge and recloak (regardless of stress, so you can 4k after getting your evade and then recloak) without having to attack

Pre-engagement you can also decloak --> roll --> recloak for amazing positioning. And ofc free evade when you get caught is nice

from base abilities alone, imo the phantom is top dog of the small ships. Obviously defender is also nuts, but we know it'll be pricey as ****

Without knowing points, I'd agree.

I find the striker more fun to fly, but with the way Stygium Array works now, V38 Phantoms are going to be a lot more interesting because you don't have to have the pilot skill initiative advantage or flat-out suck. Everyone gets a free evade, and an extra hit point, so you can tolerate the odd pot-shot, and everyone gets a free recloak if they judge their move just so. It's a pleasantly balanced hybrid of the two TIE phantom mods in 1.0. Yes, it loses an attack dice, but if it's trying to be a sneaky arc-dodger rather than a PS-dependent glass cannon kamikaze that's not a bad trade.

I like the mechanic. Because as long as you out-guess your opponent, you can keep being a super-arc-dodger. But get caught and forced to spend your evade token and you're in trouble. Which feels right for something that should play more like an attack sub than a true dogfighter like a TIE interceptor or striker (where you know exactly where the dratted thing is, but just can't hit it...)

I'd expect them to be cheaper but I'd be very surprised if they become a 5-off ship; with reliable focus/evade, violent 'free' (non-stressful, anyway) repositioning and initiative 3 on the cheaper generic they seem just a bit too good to be considered on a direct par with Alpha Squadron Pilots and Planetary Sentinels. 4-with-upgrades, yes (as opposed to the 4 butt-naked ones you get now), but probably not 5.

A lot will depend on what manner of crew ('true' crew or gunner) they can fit in that co-pilot's seat.

15 hours ago, Parakitor said:

You may be right, but in my experience, 4 hull on the TIE strikers has been just enough to prevent one-shot-syndrome. You know, compared to the Alpha Sq. Pilots I flew religiously from about Wave 4 to the end of the Palp meta. Those guys could pop, and I have been pleased with the durability of TIE strikers. Now true, lacking Lightweight Frame does put them in more dangerous territory, but your opponent has to roll all hits on the ordnance roll and you have to blank out on the defense roll. I really think strikers will be alright here. And whether you have 2 "health" left or 1, that next missile/torpedo is probably going to destroy you.

Agreed. The Rookie X-wing and Lightweight Frame bomber are the only two heavy swarmers I think have a meaningful chance of not dying to two solid hits, but it takes a lot of luck to one-hit a striker.

Even with double modifiers and guidance chips, a 4-dice missile has about a 98% chance of rolling 4 hits - and only about a 77% chance if it doesn't have guidance chips (because it's Vader with Engine Upgrade, or Quickdraw with Lightweight Frame).

Even without lightweight frame, a striker with a focus token has only about a 14% chance of totally blanking its evade dice.

Given that you need 4 hits and no evades for a kill (barring lucky criticals) that means a one-off kill only occurs about 10-15% of the time unless the striker player actively helps you do it.

(which is not always a bad plan. Withholding focus or evade tokens to guarantee a one-hit kill against a harpoon isn't as silly as it sounds, as it avoids the Harpooned! condition).

8 hours ago, Ronu said:

So in this similar vein where are Intercepters fitting into this equation? Post Maneuver reposition vs pre movement and likely in a similar price as the Strikers and slightly less than a phantom. Again assuming similar pricing to 1.0. Obviously that could rend a conversation mute.

Interceptors and Strikers are going to be a very interesting comparison. Without Lightweight Frame, the Interceptor has a massive advantage in elusiveness, and with even the generic Alpha Squadron Pilot getting essentially reposition-only-push-the-limit, a swarm of them is a lot more of a challenge to predict, and a lot closer to strikers in their ability to get around the table. It's more of a specific matchup of dial and ability; strikers can aileron + 3 bank, allowing faster, sweeping turns and chain speed 1 moves together for medium speed 'weaving', whilst interceptors (even if starting the turn stressed) can 2 turn + barrel roll for really tight turns or 4 straight + boost to exceed a striker's top straight-line speed.

The extra green dice versus the extra hull is probably more or less a wash, slightly in favour of the striker with the demise of 1.0 autothrusters.

An interesting point is that both Alpha Squadron Pilots and Imperial Trainees (now Planetary Sentinals) are sub 20 points with a cheap upgrade to make them a full heavy swarmer. Both mods (autothrusters and lightweight frame) are no defunct, so new options are up for grabs.

The Striker could look at hull upgrade (giving it matching damage capacity to the phantom, if not the initiative, cloaking ability and stygium dual-token-shenanigans, or stealth device, to close the gap with the interceptor, but with it confirmed to have a bomb device slot, seismic charges might be very good fun, especially with the new asteroid-hugging rebel and scum falcons.

As another thought - since adaptive ailerons (still) is a manoeuvre and emphatically not a boost, and assuming it's only a 2-3 point (well, 4-6 point) mod, then a heavy swarm of strikers with afterburners might be truly glorious.

Aileron Speed 1 Straight/Bank + Speed 3 Straight/Bank + Boost Speed 1 Straight/Bank + Action Speed 1 Barrel Roll, without even a stress token to show for it.

Engage "Hooning Around Like A Fruitbat On Nitrous Oxide" Mode.....

4-ship naked is probably the cost they'll be around, perhaps with a dozen points to spare or something.

Everything in the Imperial kit that has shields seems to be geared for 3ship lists so far.

I'd be amazed if (non-vader) TIE Advance couldn't be fielded in 5s given how they're the Xwing's inferior

Their effectiveness hinges entirely on getting TLs, so they really ought to be cheaper to offset that

As for phantoms, I'm batting for straight xwing prices. Should be able to do four easily, ideally 3 and a named or at least four generics drcked out with sensors + cheaper gunner/crew

EDIT: since the reaper comes with two Jukes, Feroph + double juke phantom HAS to be a thing. Jam n juke!

Now that sounds fun as ****, question is just what we'd put on Feroph

10 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I'd be amazed if (non-vader) TIE Advance couldn't be fielded in 5s given how they're the Xwing's inferior

Their effectiveness hinges entirely on getting TLs, so they really ought to be cheaper to offset that

As for phantoms, I'm batting for straight xwing prices. Should be able to do four easily, ideally 3 and a named or at least four generics drcked out with sensors + cheaper gunner/crew

EDIT: since the reaper comes with two Jukes, Feroph + double juke phantom HAS to be a thing. Jam n juke!

Now that sounds fun as ****, question is just what we'd put on Feroph

Gonna have a field day on the forums when that happens. DOOM!

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:05 PM, ficklegreendice said:

I'd be amazed if (non-vader) TIE Advance couldn't be fielded in 5s given how they're the Xwing's inferior

Their effectiveness hinges entirely on getting TLs, so they really ought to be cheaper to offset that

That I could definitely believe. The generic TIE/x1's effectiveness in 1.0 was built around accuracy corrector, which no longer exists, and - as you say, being nailed to the Target Lock action is a bad thing for a low PS, high agility fighter. The generic tempest being 20 points (in 1.0 terms) is quite believable. A 5-ship-squad with fire control systems? Not so sure, but it's not totally unreasonable.

On 7/5/2018 at 12:57 AM, william1134 said:

I am a little worried about strikers.. they died pretty quick in 1.0 with their 2.5 agility. With that gone I am not too sure how well they will survive although a lot of the big nasties are now gone in 2.0, which works in their favour.

Strikers mostly died to repeated shots, but lived by flanking and not getting shot. Turrets made this a lot more difficult for them, so with Turrets basically gone, you're going to see A LOT more strikers on the board. Countdown is almost over-powered in 2.0 because it went untouched from 1.0, while just about everything that it disliked got nerfed hard. I can't think of many ships that could beat a full health Countdown 1v1 in 2.0 now. It can go everywhere and it doesnt care about getting shot.

Also 2.0 interceptors are made obsolete by 2.0 strikers before the game is even released. Interceptors really should have had 4 hull. Unless they are super cheap, there is legitimately no reason to take any of them instead of a striker for the points.