Let me start by saying we don't know upgrade slot availability on ships nor costs on any pilots or upgrades yet so we really have no idea, but...

After seeing all the unboxings and new card designs a clear pattern is emerging. Cards and abilities that add or change dice results will be much harder to pull off without expert piloting and anticipation of where you and your opponent are going to be. Many of our 1.0 go to upgrades, like Crack Shot, HLC and Predator as well as turrets in general, now more restrictions such as bullseye and turret arcs only or more limited ranges or even a slightly worse effects than they used to. Also, many new and changed pilot abilities that used to be fairly unlimited now have limited charges and/or have a more restricted range or arc in which they trigger. Meanwhile, several new and changed abilities that give some of the most positive results are also very dependent on arcs and ranges to execute and trigger. Also, the old traditional arc dodgers will be far less effective with limited combos of linked actions as opposed to the unrestricted combinations allowed by PTL. This will mean they may often dodge an arc while getting a shot but without mods, or they may have mods, but will take fire and not be able to token stack on defense as effectively.

There are going to be less "easy mode" combos than we saw in 1.0 due to the fact that pulling off many of these combos is going to require more skill and practice than ever before. I think we are going to see that only the most highly skilled players are going to be effective at pulling off heavy upgrade combo lists, while the 1A level players are going to more successful with 3-6 ship lists that used to melt to super arc dodgers, alpha strikes and turrets in 1.0.

This is a the change from 1.0 that I would like and am excitedly hoping for.

What are your initial impressions on the designs we are seeing and thoughts on what archetypes will emerge in the early days of 2.0?

Two words; The Force.

It might just become A Thing.

8 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

Let me start by saying we don't know upgrade slot availability on ships nor costs on any pilots or upgrades yet so we really have no idea, but...

Cards and abilities that add or change dice results will be much harder to pull off without expert piloting and anticipation of where you and your opponent are going to be. Many of our 1.0 go to upgrades, like Crack Shot, HLC and Predator as well as turrets in general, now more restrictions such as bullseye and turret arcs only or more limited ranges or even a slightly worse effects than they used to.

Also, many new and changed pilot abilities that used to be fairly unlimited now have limited charges and/or have a more restricted range or arc in which they trigger. Meanwhile, several new and changed abilities that give some of the most positive results are also very dependent on arcs and ranges to execute and trigger.

Also, the old traditional arc dodgers will be far less effective with limited combos of linked actions as opposed to the unrestricted combinations allowed by PTL. This will mean they may often dodge an arc while getting a shot but without mods, or they may have mods, but will take fire and not be able to token stack on defense as effectively.

There are going to be less "easy mode" combos than we saw in 1.0 due to the fact that pulling off many of these combos is going to require more skill and practice than ever before. I think we are going to see that only the most highly skilled players are going to be effective at pulling off heavy upgrade combo lists, while the 1A level players are going to more successful with 3-6 ship lists that used to melt to super arc dodgers, alpha strikes and turrets in 1.0.

This is a the change from 1.0 that I would like and am excitedly hoping for.

What are your initial impressions on the designs we are seeing and thoughts on what archetypes will emerge in the early days of 2.0?

1. I believe the Tie Fighter and X-Wing will not be only support ships moving forward, with an emphasis on flying now being able to line up shots will be at an even greater premium, having the bullseye option, hanging on to that focus token etc. will now mean more. The days of token stacking and power creep are for the most part over. I'm personally excited to see the new scene.

2. In that regard the force users (at a cost) obviously may have an early advantage, with the focus tokens playing amajor role on both offense and defense. I believe they're going to be the true Alpha Strikers moving forward due to overall flexibility (if the cost is right) ~ squad adjustment will be very importan o build around them.

3. It think the changes are great, and the development flexibity built in will prove to be beneficial,the meta will never be the same although I believe force users will be played at a premium and see a lot of tabled action.

I don't think the game will require THAT much skill

It will be less easy mode than 1.0, that's for sure, but at least in regard to the combos I'm looking at (Boba Fett with Marauder, Perceptive Co-pilot and Han gunner; Scum Han with Trick Shot etc.), they don't require such a godlike skill level to pull off. Just basic flying skills, like not bumping or not hitting asteroids.

Anyone who claims to know the meta is lying, we don't have even 1% of the point values yet.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Anyone who claims to know the meta is lying, we don't have even 1% of the point values yet.

1 hour ago, pickirk01 said:

Let me start by saying we don't know upgrade slot availability on ships nor costs on any pilots or upgrades yet so we really have no idea, but...

I requoted myself for you because you seem to have missed the first line of my post. Of course everything is speculation at this point and though that goes without saying, I basically DID say it.

The first meta will be whatever they REALLY undercosted at the open. The second meta will probably be a bit swarmy.

Not too worried about jousters thanks to trajectory simulator. Cautiously optimistic

Though Marauder Han gunner Boba is SCARY

In terms of archtypes that we will see emerge, I predict a rapid evolution of the meta, with things boiling in every direction. In terms of my local meta, I predict:

- People going for 3 aces and failing miserably due to the lack of token stacking defense wise. They will then switch to either a support (coordinate) ship with 2 aces or 1 ace and mini-swarm, which can work.

- With Nym/Miranda no longer being a thing, I expect people to go for the next best thing, either Scum Nym or punishers with trajectory simulator. This will create a reaction where people will go for 1 agility ships which, thanks to the problem of offensive stacking (focus and target lock), will make a comeback.

- At first, some players will go for a Falcon and Luke, but too much "joust" type flying will hurt their chances. They will either learn how to arc dodge with a large base or switch squad types.

- I also expect to see X-Wing, many with torpedoes.

- Finally, in my case, I expect to search for thematic ways to use IG-88. Not sure how just yet because it is linked to the point cost, but I'll find out.

The mostly all generic approach will probably not see the light of day for at least seveal months (I still win tournaments with my 2 X Kimo, 2 Hawks and Sunny, but that's another story). I hope, really, really hope, that a breaking combo will not be found too early. That way, the constantly shifting meta will keep things interesting for a while.

I'm cautiously optimistic right now that FFG seem to have managed to achieve their stated goal of reducing token stacks and actionless mods and brining the game back to flying well and predicting your opponent. The faction identities even seem to be coming together a little bit now we've seen the conversion kit unboxings. I'm especially happy that it looks as though the Imperials might now have the best support crew, which is very appropriate.

Some combos look a little good right now, but without points values we can't say whether they'll be good in the context of a list. That's the biggest missing piece, of course. We can look at all the cards and put together scary builds but one ship doesn't make a list and we need to know how everything fits together before we can make any predictions. By then the complete game will be in people's hands and we'll be seeing models on the table so it won't be so much a prediction as it'll be reality.

1 hour ago, dotswarlock said:

In terms of archtypes that we will see emerge, I predict a rapid evolution of the meta, with things boiling in every direction. In terms of my local meta, I predict:

- People going for 3 aces and failing miserably due to the lack of token stacking defense wise. They will then switch to either a support (coordinate) ship with 2 aces or 1 ace and mini-swarm, which can work.

- With Nym/Miranda no longer being a thing, I expect people to go for the next best thing, either Scum Nym or punishers with trajectory simulator. This will create a reaction where people will go for 1 agility ships which, thanks to the problem of offensive stacking (focus and target lock), will make a comeback.

- At first, some players will go for a Falcon and Luke, but too much "joust" type flying will hurt their chances. They will either learn how to arc dodge with a large base or switch squad types.

- I also expect to see X-Wing, many with torpedoes.

- Finally, in my case, I expect to search for thematic ways to use IG-88. Not sure how just yet because it is linked to the point cost, but I'll find out.

The mostly all generic approach will probably not see the light of day for at least seveal months (I still win tournaments with my 2 X Kimo, 2 Hawks and Sunny, but that's another story). I hope, really, really hope, that a breaking combo will not be found too early. That way, the constantly shifting meta will keep things interesting for a while.

Too funny about your local meta. Do you live in Mid-Michigan area cause that's what I'm thinking here.

57 minutes ago, Jike said:

I'm cautiously optimistic right now that FFG seem to have managed to achieve their stated goal of reducing token stacks and actionless mods and brining the game back to flying well and predicting your opponent. The faction identities even seem to be coming together a little bit now we've seen the conversion kit unboxings. I'm especially happy that it looks as though the Imperials might now have the best support crew, which is very appropriate.

Some combos look a little good right now, but without points values we can't say whether they'll be good in the context of a list. That's the biggest missing piece, of course. We can look at all the cards and put together scary builds but one ship doesn't make a list and we need to know how everything fits together before we can make any predictions. By then the complete game will be in people's hands and we'll be seeing models on the table so it won't be so much a prediction as it'll be reality.

Yes, all of this.

15 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Too funny about your local meta. Do you live in Mid-Michigan area cause that's what I'm thinking here.

Yes, all of this.

Nope, Canada (Quebec). I just like to specify "my meta" because in some cases, it varies drastically and I don't want to appear like a know-it-all . I'm sure our local meta can be the same elsewhere though

I haven't dove deep into the unboxings but it looks like list-building won't be the be all end all of the game. This is particularly important for new and casual players. Dice Mods are life and as it is mods are all about the list and the flow-chart you can create away from the table. 2nd Edition looks like it could be flying well is dice mods and that gets decided at the table.

In making mods dependent on flying and on reducing all the passive token stacking it will "feel" to new players or average/casual players less like they got beat in the list-building stage.

If the "dice get to be dice" then you have more of a chance for some non-net/non-meta lists to win the day. More "I bought the ships I like and I can play the Sunday tourney and not automatically lose all my games."

With more restriction on which actions can be linked there can be more strategy and more interesting decisions on what to do with your ships. Things will not feel "broken" because the choices that can be made will be much clearer. What sorts of things you might see and need to prepare and have a strategy for will be much more out in the open without having to dive into the forums.

More restrictions on the actions should allow much more accurate costing of abilities and of ability chains. The value of any particular action should be less likely to snowball in value in the right combo further making list-building less the be all end all of the game.

Action restrictions should reduce FAQ bloat and make how stuff works and when it happens much clearer.

No one likes losing but people only particularly mind losing if they feel like the game didn't give them a chance. With the changes in the way mods work there should be less games where my dice results matter and your dice results don't. That doesn't "feel" fair. With mods dependent on flying it becomes much clearer why your dice might have been "cold" while your opponent's were red hot.

This should narrow the distance between a "fun" list and a "tourney" list and make everyone at league night more or less playing the "same" game of X-wing.

That should be more fun for everyone.

Rebel Meta Anticipations:

1. Fattest Lando with Fattest Luke

2. 200 point Dash + Fenn

3. Two Tubes Brothers - Four Ship

4. Fenn and Dutch + 2 - Alpha Strike

5. Fenn + Biggs + Lowhhrick + 1 - Fair Ship Rebel

So yeah, save this comment because cranking fenn up in points is going to be the first if not one of the first cost adjustments. He's the best rebel ship and they literally left him untouched.

6 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Rebel Meta Anticipations:

1. Fattest Lando with Fattest Luke

2. 200 point Dash + Fenn

3. Two Tubes Brothers - Four Ship

4. Fenn and Dutch + 2 - Alpha Strike

5. Fenn + Biggs + Lowhhrick + 1 - Fair Ship Rebel

So yeah, save this comment because cranking fenn up in points is going to be the first if not one of the first cost adjustments. He's the best rebel ship and they literally left him untouched.

What makes you think he's not going to cost more from the start?

I’m not super optimistic about Fenn or Low either. I heard that generic Wookiees are still going to be 4 to a list, which is really disappointing. It’s nice that they nerfed reinforce and dropped a shield, but the biggest issue for me has always been that enormous 3-die arc. They still have 32hp, reinforce, and a terribly powerful and enormous killbox.

And yeah, Fenn needs to be at least 50 or he’s going to show up in every list. AP-5 at 30 doesn’t make me optimistic.

?

Edit: It’s especially annoying to me because I’m a SW: Rebels fan and I would love to fly Hera and her team. But I haven’t touched those ships in a while because it’s always either NPE for my opponent or a suboptimal build for me.

Imperial Meta prediction

Superdodger Vader + Superdodger Fel
Howlswarm
Sloanswarm
Cianna Rea +Aces
Fat Defenders
Phantom pack
Ace + miniswarm (many variations)

sorry again but when is 2.0 released to pub?

49 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Phantom pack

You had me at Phantom pack.

5 hours ago, Frimmel said:

No one likes losing but people only particularly mind losing if they feel like the game didn't give them a chance. With the changes in the way mods work there should be less games where my dice results matter and your dice results don't. That doesn't "feel" fair. With mods dependent on flying it becomes much clearer why your dice might have been "cold" while your opponent's were red hot.

I agree very heartily. I remember playing a game against someone with Autoblaster Turret and Accuracy Corrector, making dice completely irrelevant at Range 1. Now, odds are that I probably would have taken at least two damage from most R1 shots anyway, but by making it inevitable it removed any hope of making an incredible save, and was that much less fun, even if the results would have been the same.

7 minutes ago, Randito said:

You had me at Phantom pack.

Led by Squad leader Echo with Moff Jerjerod crew.

2.0 Meta: Gunner Luke vs. burning wreckage. DOOOM!

20 hours ago, ThinkingB said:

Rebel Meta Anticipations:

1. Fattest Lando with Fattest Luke

2. 200 point Dash + Fenn

3. Two Tubes Brothers - Four Ship

4. Fenn and Dutch + 2 - Alpha Strike

5. Fenn + Biggs + Lowhhrick + 1 - Fair Ship Rebel

So yeah, save this comment because cranking fenn up in points is going to be the first if not one of the first cost adjustments. He's the best rebel ship and they literally left him untouched.

First of all, is HotCop still a thing in 2.0? Not dure if i have missed it or not in the videos.

If not, he already lost a bit of his utility. So he would be all about the Coordinate then. It was the HotCop in combination with Sensor Jammer that made it a real NPE against ghost Fenn. Making the Ghost boost at PS 11 was a bonus to that.

He is akso not that great against Swarms and Superjouster lists like 4-5 X/U-Wings. He can shut down one ship and that’s it pretty much. And he will ever pull his weight, which has become more important. Pure support ships might be of more limited use now.

I really don’t like the logic that something needs to be nerfed if it was too good in 1.0 It’s a different game really, and maybe Fenn is fine staying at the same price.

16 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I agree very heartily. I remember playing a game against someone with Autoblaster Turret and Accuracy Corrector, making dice completely irrelevant at Range 1. Now, odds are that I probably would have taken at least two damage from most R1 shots anyway, but by making it inevitable it removed any hope of making an incredible save, and was that much less fun, even if the results would have been the same.

That's the thing. Everyone has their own 'specific' definition of Negative Play Experience, but most of them boil down to 'nothing I do feels like it matters', and accuracy corrector/autoblaster turret/PS10 Nym was one of those examples.

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:49 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Anyone who claims to know the meta is lying, we don't have even 1% of the point values yet.

Agreed. But 'the meta' can only be made up of stuff that exists, and so far (luke gunner aside) everything we've seen requires some basic flying and predictive skills or giving up precious, precious actions to rotate turrets or reposition and make up the deficit.

So many things being arc-restricted, and 'fully execute'-restricted means that the intentions are good, even if the practice ends up flawed. A lot of abilities requiring a boresight means they are (a) able to be cheap because they're hard to trigger and (b) really separate the good player (I reckon I know exactly what you're going to do) from the good pilot (i.e. I'm PS10 and boost/barrel roll after you...oh, look, dodged your arc again!)

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:27 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Not too worried about jousters thanks to trajectory simulator. Cautiously optimistic

Although in turn, don't mind trajectory simulator so much now that bombs look like they'll be pegged off before anyone moves, not at PS10-with-perfect-knowledge-and-I've-got-genius-and-a-munitions-token-if-I-need-it. Equally, whilst sabine is awesome, you have to actually think how to use her various tokens to create advantage rather than going "you're dead with no save....and you're dead...and you're dead....Yay Unlimited Bomblets!"

4 hours ago, ForceM said:

First of all, is HotCop still a thing in 2.0? Not dure if i have missed it or not in the videos.

Hotshot Gunner, gunner slot.