20 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Say you're flying dengar. If you want to be ablet o use his ability to get 2 shots out the front arc, you can't modify the first one (unless you have multiple tokens, because if you spend your TL to modify your shot, you don't get a second shot because you don't have a TL anymore). Also with dengar, if you're using his ability, you'll run out of torpedo charges mighty quick. 2 rounds of double front-arc shots and you're out of torpedoes.

There are several ways to get multiple mods: Lone Wolf, Maul, Han if he has a gunner slot.

The 2 charges is a valid point, but unless you can do some Torp shenanigans or it's dirt cheap , I just doubt there will be much use for the ship

52 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

With that dial and red actions, you're looking at a chip as chips torp platform that can double as a disgusting blocker

It's not even that disgusting of a blocker anymore with the massive dial nerfs and red barrel roll.

11 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

It's not even that disgusting of a blocker anymore with the massive dial nerfs and red barrel roll.

Still a large ship roll

Expert handling if you wish

+ Stuff like rigged cargo

On 7/4/2018 at 1:20 AM, Jarval said:

The little upwards yellow arrow next to his charge icon means he gets it back every turn. It's just a way of limiting it to once per turn.

That's the thing I hate most about 2.0: the tiny little asterisk or up-arrow or whatever the heck it is that differentiates charges that replenish one per turn from charges that don't.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

Maul

Doesn’t offer too much anymore in the way of mods. Also very little synergy with Ezra now. I’m pretty disappointed such an iconic and intimidating character got treated so badly.

May be the cheapest force crew though.

26 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Doesn’t offer too much anymore in the way of mods. Also very little synergy with Ezra now. I’m pretty disappointed such an iconic and intimidating character got treated so badly.

May be the cheapest force crew though.

It's still at least 1 Force per round, potentially more. Depending on cost it might be worth it.

18 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

It's still at least 1 Force per round, potentially more. Depending on cost it might be worth it.

What I dislike about it is that his special ability comes with two downsides and a pretty poor timing. IF you actually get hit with an attack (which is a bad sign in the first place) AND you already spent your force token (also a bad sign, considering you got hit, so it can't have done too much good), then you get to recover your force charge, AND you end up stressed for your trouble. Might help on offense if you're low I, or on defense if you're really up against all that, but man that's super niche and just seems really unlikely to see more than a couple of uses per game. His only real value is in providing a force token. Could be useful I guess, but I hope he's a good bit cheaper than Ezra or Kanan.

15 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Still a large ship roll

Expert handling if you wish

+ Stuff like rigged cargo

Also Int 6 turret. Sure the link is red but it is a linked action, It will be a modified attack and there is still enough blue to clear it. No more white S-loop which means no crazy flips after turning turret but it will work for the most part.

14 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Also Int 6 turret. Sure the link is red but it is a linked action, It will be a modified attack and there is still enough blue to clear it. No more white S-loop which means no crazy flips after turning turret but it will work for the most part.

Init 6 2 dice single arc turret, aka not that scary. Apparently 'crap turrets' is part of the Scum faction identity.

It might still be playable for the right cost, but I personally find ridiculous that Dengar's ship has less firepower than the Moldy Crow.

2 hours ago, nogarder said:

Textual words of a distributor worker in Spain in a Spanish forum, he is known as punissher:
"And yes, the jumpmaster was an intentional mistake that went wrong"
Little more to add, and more than enough reason to be nerfed, and a clear example of how this company works.

If that is about the 1.0 Jumpmaster, one also needs to look at the situation when it was released:

In X-wing the meta tends to be made up by designer 'mistakes' . If all ships are aimed at a given balance point, some will fall a bit below, others a bit above. Competitive players tend to find and play the stuff that ends up above the power curve. Before wave 8 Scum was doing pretty bad in tournaments (under represented and under performing), presumably also regarding sales. It's entirely possible FFG decided Scum needed a ship above the power curve now, not in 3-4 waves when that might happen 'naturally', so they aimed higher with the Jumpmaster.

tbh all the 1e jm5k needed to not be as broken but still lethal would be 2 things:

1: No right sloop
2: Punishing One costs 8pts, but base JM5K costs 4 more.

Other than for some reason an asym ship that is known for "turning left" could somehow turn right pretty much just as easily, i had no issues with the buffed up Dengar or Tel. Dangerous, but managable. The problem was the sheer cheap utility Manaroo provided or the 3ship lists the generic offered. If it was 4pts more base you might have still seen triple jumps but they'd be basically naked, and all the brutal lists Manny showed up in wouldnt work either without cutting something important.

Dengar only bugged me for the fact that i saw him virtually every game. Got old quick.

aw man, he can only use his once per turn ability once per turn! What were they thinking?! BURN DOWN THE FORUMS!!!

7 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Also Int 6 turret. Sure the link is red but it is a linked action, It will be a modified attack and there is still enough blue to clear it. No more white S-loop which means no crazy flips after turning turret but it will work for the most part.

There's blue to clear it if you can go straight or bank left. God help you if you have to go right or do a hard turn.

7 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Init 6 2 dice single arc turret, aka not that scary. Apparently 'crap turrets' is part of the Scum faction identity.

While I really wish it had the double turret, I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll actually make as far as effectiveness goes. Generally, unless you're doing a k-turn or sloop where the opposite arc ends up pointed at your target, you're probably focusing on one target and not using the second arc anyway most of the time.

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

W hile I really wish it had the double turret, I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll actually make as far as effectiveness goes. Generally, unless you're doing a k-turn or sloop where the opposite arc ends up pointed at your target, you're probably focusing on one target and not using the second arc anyway most of the time.

The main problem is the 2 dice, although if priced right, the Punishing One might be worth running as an arc locked 3 dice ship.

Where I think the bow tie comes into effect is by giving you a greater freedom to maneuver. If I'm coming at you with one arc pointed forward, next round I can fly past you and still get a shot with a bow tie arc. With the Jumpmaster I need to get stressed to do so.

20 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

The main problem is the 2 dice, although if priced right, the Punishing One might be worth running as an arc locked 3 dice ship.

That I agree with. The fact that the punishing one doesn't get 3 attack dice all the time is ridiculous. It'd be one thing if it was like th emoldy crow and gave a permanent 3 die forward arc, but how does a turret only get an extra die in one arc?

3 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

tbh all the 1e jm5k needed to not be as broken but still lethal would be 2 things:

1: No right sloop
2: Punishing One costs 8pts, but base JM5K costs 4 more.

Other than for some reason an asym ship that is known for "turning left" could somehow turn right pretty much just as easily, i had no issues with the buffed up Dengar or Tel. Dangerous, but managable. The problem was the sheer cheap utility Manaroo provided or the 3ship lists the generic offered. If it was 4pts more base you might have still seen triple jumps but they'd be basically naked, and all the brutal lists Manny showed up in wouldnt work either without cutting something important.

Dengar only bugged me for the fact that i saw him virtually every game. Got old quick.

And red turns on the weak side of the dial. So you know... its actually weak.

16 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

That I agree with. The fact that the punishing one doesn't get 3 attack dice all the time is ridiculous. It'd be one thing if it was like th emoldy crow and gave a permanent 3 die forward arc, but how does a turret only get an extra die in one arc?

Well when it comes to turrets there are two requirements to be competitive.

1. Initiative 6 (or ability to move turret after everyone else has move sans Luke crew)
2. Firepower 3 or greater.

Dengar with Punishing one fits those two, Han as well. Any rebel YT with Luke crew could also fit that group. So that once again leaves out those poor Imps who can only get up to Int 5, and well 1st order and resistance since they are left out of the first wave of second edition in its entirety (Han resistance isn't out yet).

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Well when it comes to turrets there are two requirements to be competitive.

1. Initiative 6 (or ability to move turret after everyone else has move sans Luke crew)
2. Firepower 3 or greater.

Dengar with Punishing one fits those two, Han as well. Any rebel YT with Luke crew could also fit that group. So that once again leaves out those poor Imps who can only get up to Int 5, and well 1st order and resistance since they are left out of the first wave of second edition in its entirety (Han resistance isn't out yet).

It should be only fair, that in turn rebels and scum don't get double reposition at Initative 6.

(they sorta can, but its an expensive combo)

Just want to point out that costs haven’t been confirmed, and there is a good chance it got a gunner slot.

On 7/4/2018 at 2:33 AM, Wookiee_Slayer said:

Oh man am I glad to be proven wrong! Thanks! Now I can sleep without nightmares haunting me tonight!

How about you go edit your original post to say you were wrong and give the proper explanation oh how it works.

That way you limit the spread of misinformation. So people don't make the same wrong assumptions you did.

On 7/6/2018 at 3:43 AM, ficklegreendice said:

I don't even think anyone will be up caring about rotate when the bugger finally comes out

Either you're locking it foward or you're locking it inwards as you try to work the asymmetrical dial, unless you're trying to get a choice shot on a lower I opponent

With that dial and red actions, you're looking at a chip as chips torp platform that can double as a disgusting blocker

I'd be guessing 41 points so you're just shy of running five at a time

yeah. im seeing the 2.0 jumpmaster more as a cheap torp carrier and blocker. i own 3 jumpmasters and im betting playing 3 in the same list isnt going to be very good in 2.0. as has been mentioned here already it was the fact the contracted scout was so undercosted compared to everything else that made it just a bit to good. im liking the changes they have made to the 2.0 firespray so as a scum player i still get some great options for playing lists that have tanky ships.

19 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

It should be only fair, that in turn rebels and scum don't get double reposition at Initative 6.

(they sorta can, but its an expensive combo)

Reposistioning also needs Initiative 6. I can see a 12 or even 20 point bid for 1st turn (assuming it works the same as 1st edition initiative) Dash w/Luke could possibly be a counter to all the Int 6 double reposistioning but I think it is a safe assumption that the cost of the combination would be prohibitively expensive and if it is not at launch it soon would. Heck it might not even be Dash but any 1-3 YT ship.

For Dengar the punishing one is a turret still and a 3 firepower ship. Sure not a 3 firepower turret but it can still do damage. Dengar w/punishing one fits the two requirements although one might argue it only fits in the vaguest of terms. Question is will it take the punishing one title or just use torpedoes/missiles for forward weapons and would that be enough. U(Torpedo)-boats were firepower 2 for out of arc attacks but there was 3 of them. Taking lower initiative ships would likely have trouble with ships that can boost or barrel roll out of arc.

But as someone mentioned before it all depends on point costing. My greatest concern is that FFG is more reactive in point costing than proactive. Where we would often see the pattern of 1 ship/pilot/upgrade from a wave being well above the power-to-point curve; then after the tournament season over correct said card to where no one plays it right before a new wave comes out that has another ship/pilot/upgrade that plots above the same curve. It would make the appearance of FFG always nerfing the old stuff so you have to buy the new stuff that is always OP in reality is that FFG hasn't figured out the costing and does the correction after the fact, but the production cycle demands a new product before the next set of points is hammered out.

On 7/7/2018 at 1:43 AM, Marinealver said:

Well when it comes to turrets there are two requirements to be competitive.

1. Initiative 6 (or ability to move turret after everyone else has move sans Luke crew)
2. Firepower 3 or greater.

Dengar with Punishing one fits those two, Han as well. Any rebel YT with Luke crew could also fit that group. So that once again leaves out those poor Imps who can only get up to Int 5, and well 1st order and resistance since they are left out of the first wave of second edition in its entirety ( Han resistance isn't out yet).

PS6 sure, but I don't really count the punishing one as 3 firepower when it only gets it in the front arc, which is WAY harder to get/maintain with worse greens, hard right turns, and only 1 direction to sloop. And a red barrel roll.

If my memory serves me right you are able to shoot torpedoes out of your front arc even if your mobile arc is facing to the left and you can shoot REVENGE TORPEDOES! this means you will have and just keep a 180 degree arc to the left as the JM5K likes going left anyway. So i feel it's going to be better than people expect because on the joust you will not want to attack Dengar if he's going to shoot a 4 dice torp at you for the second time in 1 round. Correct me if I am wrong, Round 1 linked action to rotate arc to the left Round 2 green move Round 3 bank in but keep to the left Round 4 go straight. Now in this position you have a massive arc and if you are in his front arc thats 8 dice thrown from 1 ship or 4 dice and no damage taken. Does this sound familiar... that's right OG Dengar is back!...... With a shocking dial..... and not 360 arc....but that doesn't really matter... right? Just kidding but to be honest i'm quite happy to have torpedoes back.