As a rebel player need serious help combating an Imperial squadron/carrier group.

Vader, Fel, Mauler, Howlrunner, Dengar, Marek, Jendon

Quasar w/Admiral Sloane, Flight Controllers, Flight Commander, Boosted Comms

• This group generates lots of "unblockable non-attack" damage enabled by Vader+Fel (repeated free damage) and Dengar+Mauler (repeated splash) which is hard to shut down because Vader has to typically be shot through first before you can target anyone else and the damage and can't be mitigated with tokens. Over time this damage really adds up.
• Their conventional attack damage also boosted due to Howlrunner's presence who again is difficult to reach due to Vader being an escort and swarm rerolls. Jendon also allows Marek to attack twice
• Counters everywhere! - For every attack you make you will often suffer an HP tax thanks to Dengar giving/boosting counter to all (and of course the Fel effect)
• Approaching with a ship is also a risky proposition since Marek bombs twice thanks to Jendon/Dengar and defense tokens can be depleted thanks to Sloane
• And of course most of them have scatter
• This doesn't even factor in flight controllers

The imps typically can pounce you first due to the speed advantage so the alpha strike and initial positioning typically goes to them. This thins your counterattack (which in turn you will pay a damage tax for) and typically forces you shoot through Vader (3 to 4 attacks) first leaving you wide open to a second strike from a largely undepleted force packing extra dice, rerolls and a Mithel spash.

It doesn't seem like rebels can generate this kind of starfighter engagement power and go toe-to-toe not even with Yavaris given the scatters and Yavaris being limited to 3 squad activations and six attacks (3 to 4 go to Vader and you've 2 to 3 leftover which isn't usually enough to sink a scatter ace barring good rolling).

I'm at a loss. I'm thinking sniping spread out e-wings are my only real hope enabled by Hera and protected by Jan to bypass Vader and heavy flak but snipe is usually only 3 and...well scatter aces.

Could some serious help here as a rebel player. 'Cant seem to fight them and can't seem to outrun them. Maybe splitting them up somehow?

Ten Numb double tap with Yavaris.

Snipe.

Biggs, Jan and Gallant Haven

What else is in the list aside from the Quasar and squads? A cheap ISD-1/K and some flotillas? Demo and some flotillas? That's going to flavor my answer. If you can get in there with something beefy enough to pop all the combat ships, you can just ignore the squad fight entirely. Rieekan aces with Ten as ovinoman3r suggests will do good work.

23 minutes ago, Rikash said:

What else is in the list aside from the Quasar and squads? A cheap ISD-1/K and some flotillas? Demo and some flotillas? That's going to flavor my answer. If you can get in there with something beefy enough to pop all the combat ships, you can just ignore the squad fight entirely. Rieekan aces with Ten as ovinoman3r suggests will do good work.

One ISD II - Needa, boarding troopers, ECM, leading shots, quad battery turrets, avenger

One gozanti - comms net

Carrier also has expanded hangar bays and Pursuant

@ovinomanc3r - i considered ten numb but getting that crit with only 2 blue dice is pretty iffy. Biggs is ok but he's just rearranging damage. The damage output of the imp squad is about 28+ gross per turn (including his counters) Jan's also doesn't block the passive damage Fel and Mauler are putting or the typical counter 1's i'm having to eat thanks to Dengar. Snipe's only 3. I've got four e-wing's total and unless i keep them well back get pounced on an locked down. If I don't get locked down I've got 4 to work with but snipe is 3 (4 if corran) which doesn't do damage all that fast against scatter aces. Might kill 2 scatter aces if you're very lucky but more likely to kill one (0 if you whiff a roll) and wound the other which leaves most of the imp group ready to pounce again.

Go squadronless. I am not joking.

Kill Sloane quick you win.

Kill the carrier quick you win.

1 hour ago, Garrett17 said:

One ISD II - Needa, boarding troopers, ECM, leading shots, quad battery turrets, avenger

One gozanti - comms net

Carrier also has expanded hangar bays and Pursuant

@ovinomanc3r - i considered ten numb but getting that crit with only 2 blue dice is pretty iffy. Biggs is ok but he's just rearranging damage. The damage output of the imp squad is about 28+ gross per turn (including his counters) Jan's also doesn't block the passive damage Fel and Mauler are putting or the typical counter 1's i'm having to eat thanks to Dengar. Snipe's only 3. I've got four e-wing's total and unless i keep them well back get pounced on an locked down. If I don't get locked down I've got 4 to work with but snipe is 3 (4 if corran) which doesn't do damage all that fast against scatter aces. Might kill 2 scatter aces if you're very lucky but more likely to kill one (0 if you whiff a roll) and wound the other which leaves most of the imp group ready to pounce again.

Toryn

Ruthless strategist.

YT 1300

A full Sloane blob tricked out like that (with Flight Controllers to boot) is almost always going to win the squadron war. They're also probably faster than you as a rebel player, and will likely always get the alpha strike off. Your first option as @Ginkapo said, is to just go squadless. Maarek/Jendon put out very consistent damage, but the rest of that squad blob really doesn't hit ships that hard. Fly straight at Sloane's flagship and blast it out of the water.

If you do want a squadron fight on your own though, rebels have a few great tools. Ten Numb attacking multiple times per turn via Yavaris or Adar, boosted by Toryn Farr's accuracy buff is wildly devastating. A couple good rolls can instantly wipe any squad ball. Jan can allow your generic fighters much greater durability.

Another thing to keep in mind is to use your flak. 134 points of Sloane aces is terrifying. Don't go fight them out in open space and expect to win. Cower behind your own ships, and cluster touching your ships. Make sure any squadron that attacks you is going to eat multiple overlapping fields of flak. They can only scatter once per turn. Keep throwing dice at them until they drop. Bright Hope is great for this too, being basically immune to Sloane's fighters aside from Maarek. Draven on Bright Hope puts out consistent pain to anyone hanging around with Dengar.

See, this is why people are taking Rieekan.

One escort (Wedge) shuts down, or in the very least complicates, an Imperial alpha strike. Dead or not, that Escort isn't going away until the end of the turn.

Then designate one escort per turn that has to be shot at, preferably an ace, and with Jan backing them it prolongs the engagement, forcing more squadrons to jump in.

Just use the rebel death squadron of nueb, wedge, Dutch, and shara

Remember rebel squadrons have a huge advantage that they (for the most part) can't be killed in a single strike

16 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Go squadronless. I am not joking.

Kill Sloane quick you win.

Kill the carrier quick you win.

It is amazing how in-effective a Sloane fleet is without the carrier. It's still dangerous, but a lot less powerful. Try squadronless.

A second option is flachette Pelta maybe, if you need to run Rebels?

10 hours ago, chr335 said:

Remember rebel squadrons have a huge advantage that they (for the most part) can't be killed in a single strike

Oh that I know. It's that i'm dying in fewer strikes than he is that's killing me (no pun intended).

His damage output is simply higher esp. over time (though I engage away from the carrier so I don't have to deal with Flight Controllers too because that would be just insane).

I've been doing some math and barring special mods it typically takes a 4-blue dice throwing unit 3 to 4 attacks to kills a 3 HP scatter ace. One whiff though and that number steps up to 5. (I know you can augment w/yavaris, gallant haven et al. but i'm keeping this to squads to keep it simple for a sec).

If you're packing 4-die throwing squads you probably have at most 8 of them (but likely less due to the presence of an ace plus Jan).

Let's say you activate 4 of them early in the turn before he can shoot at you (again). Assuming Vader's not in your way, that's one 3 HP scatter ace off the board (this doesn't work with Dengar as he'll typically take more than 5 or more shots to kill). Let's say you paid 2 HP in counter tax and maybe 1 in Fel tax. Now you've got to sit through his 6-squad activation assault a second time barring the one guy you managed to kill. Mauler steps in and boom, you're out 4 more HP.

I don't think this works numbers-wise. And you have to commit one or two carriers to this because Dengar allows them to move around so you need to be able to chase to focus your fire, thus no waiting for the squadron phase. That's two ships (likely heavily tricked out) committed to support a non-alpha strike, inferior damage output group.

Ultimately I think that the squadronless approach might be the best bet. The rebels don't seem to have the same kick starfighter wise.

Alternatively I could play my 4 engine-teched corvettes and two hammerheads and just ram a lesson into him.

Thanks for all the responses so far guys.

(Rieekan)

Fleet 5040 (212/400)
===================
Modified Pelta-class Command Ship (60 + 18)
+ General Draven (3)
+ Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
+ Phoenix Home (3)
+ Toryn Farr (7)
6 x YT-1300 (6 x 13)
8 x Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (8 x 7)

Fleet 5050 (113/400)
===================
MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100 + 13)
+ General Draven (3)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Flechette Torpedoes (3)
+ Ordnance Pods (3)

Fleet 5060 (28/400)
===================
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 10)
+ General Draven (3)
+ Quad Laser Turrets (5)
+ Bright Hope (2)

Fleet 5060 (206/400)
===================
Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 + 16)
+ General Draven (3)
+ Flechette Torpedoes (3)
+ Phoenix Home (3)
+ Intel Officer (7)
Ten Numb (19)
Jan Ors (19)
Dutch Vander (16)
4 x YT-1300 (4 x 13)
4 x Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (4 x 7)

Oooo. I like the Pelta ideas.

Also would I be right in guessing that Draven was designed as a counter to Dengar-blobs? If so thank God.

Anyone here try Draven with Point Defense Reroute or Quad Laser Turrets?

1 hour ago, Garrett17 said:

Oooo. I like the Pelta ideas.

Also would I be right in guessing that Draven was designed as a counter to Dengar-blobs? If so thank God.

Anyone here try Draven with Point Defense Reroute or Quad Laser Turrets?

Yep, draven is soo good against groups of counter fighters, including those benefitting from dengar or other sources that add counter.

From experience QLT and draven is sorta meh - it discourages generic low health fighters like ties from attacking the ship so is generally good against sloane fleets (GENERALLY, not all the time, other sloane fleets that dont include 16 tie fighters do exist) but bombers are still gonna shoot the ship (this is assuming dengar is in use giving counter of course)

I like Draven on the GR75 the most as its a cheap, fast platform that wont hurt to lose.