51 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I updated the fleet support upgrades article to better reflect the improved potency of Slicer Tools nowadays. I also updated the Arquitens article in several places, but particularly I focused more on when you might want to use a Command Arquitens.

I think that in general if Tarkin is going to do well with anything, is the command arc. and gladiators. Both really want to do the same command every turn, but don't necessarily need to have a dial of it. Furthermore, most of their other command options are also okay, and create some interesting options.

7 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I updated the fleet support upgrades article to better reflect the improved potency of Slicer Tools nowadays. I also updated the Arquitens article in several places, but particularly I focused more on when you might want to use a Command Arquitens.

Strange timing, I re-read those two yesterday. Off to re-re-read them now.

Oops, double-post.

Some feedback from the forum software that a post has been submitted would be a useful feature.

Update on my Thrawn Bomber list and tournaments in the PNW.

*June 24th - Portland Game Store local tournament.
Game 1
Went up against triple Cymoon list. Since it was a local tournament and not a store championship, I wanted to see how the list fared and took my fleet on a more direct approach just for the heck of it and throwing die.
Watched all my tie bombers roll blanks on the first pass on turn 2. Immediately made a mental note to pick up BCC in my next list version. Ultimately was tabled 10-1 after destroying one Cymoon and almost destroying another, due to lack of adequate damage from under performing rolls.

Since I was the only one that lost big, was byed for 2nd game.

Game 3, was matched against a Vader list that was made by a "newish" player. I honestly can't remember what he had because the fleet wasn't really memorable, I took it apart for 8-3.

I ended up 5th out of 8.

*June 30th - Borderlands Game Store local tournament.
Game 1
Went up against an Ozzel ISD Kuat and Raiders with Racks. Very scary trying not to land where those things will murder me. I murdered some of his things, he murdered some of mine, 7-4 my way

Game 2
Went up against an imperial list. Honestly I can't remember the Commander. Had a medium squadron build of tie/I's and Howlrunner. He decided to Alpha Major Rhymer who was sitting right in front of my Kuat ISD. Lost the Major and then murdered his entire squadron ball in one activation with my ISD. Proceeded to eat his fleet but not without losing Demo. 8-3.

Game 3
Poor guy hasn't played Armada in months, took a double ISD one Victory list. Deployed poorly and I ended up tabling him, 10-1.

I took 1st of 4.

*July 7th - Dice Age Store Championship

Game 1

Went up against that same triple Cymoon list. I thought about choosing 2nd player and then running off for a lame 6-5, decided that was childish and to play the game. Choose 1st player and picked Contested Outpost so I knew the opponent had to deploy to pick up the station and also meant seeing a Cymoon out of action for the majority of the game and deployed to where I would only face 2 cymoons for the first 4 turns. Again, watching my bombers roll blanks even when supported by BCC and watching my Kuat and Demo underperform in dice rolls, whilst my opponent rolled slightly above average meant I only killed one ISD again while leaving the other 2 damaged, one on the verge of death. Was tabled 10-1 It was very frustrating because I know I could of beaten that list if the die had been more helpful in my favor. It is what it is.

Game 2
Went up against a list my list was designed to beat, a wonky version of Rieeken squadrons. Ten, Jan, Dutch, Gold, Wedge, Dagger, two VCX's. He had two GR-75's, Hammerhead, Pelta, and Yav. He choose 1st and picked my Superior Positions. He then made some very critical errors in his deployment which saw his ships slightly spread out, with the Pelta too far away to be properly supported by Yav or the Hammerhead and all at speed 1. I deployed at speed 3 with everything stacked on one side aimed to intercept his Pelta and then able to turn to engage the rest of his fleet.

Despite me telling him what was on my ISD (RS, Ord Pods) when he asked. He said "Oh, that's interesting". I just smiled at him. I placed Major Rhymer out in front of my ISD along with a Tie Bomber to act as "bait" and on turn 2 he took it. Sent his entire squadron ball to kill the Major, sadly his die rolls were under performing and the only squadron he managed to kill was the Major which took 6 squad activations as I delayed activating my ISD as long as I could to ensure he would pile more and more squadrons in. Essentially, he was 1st, activated, I used SA, he activated again, I moved Demo who threw a tiny amount of flak that could only hit 2 of his squadrons. Then he activated again. So at this point all of his squadrons other than the VCX's were in optimal position.

I activated my ISD and proceeded to move Mauler, hit Wedge, flaked, RS, Ord pod flak, and RS again and I watched his face fall as he saw all of his squadrons except Gold and Dagger die but were left engaged by Mauler.
Proceeded to eat this fleet. I almost managed to snag a 10-1 but had to settle for 9-2 when Demo underperformed again and missed the chance to kill his Hammerhead with Rieeken on it.

Guy got VERY tilted after this game and proceeded to complain for the rest of the tournament. Which likely contributed to his next loss when he chose Sensor net against a list designed to farm Sensor net. He didn't understand how his fleet could lose when it did so well "last" time. Despite those of us around him pointing out his mistakes afterwards and what contributed to his losses (talking him through the steps of where a poor decision was made) guy still threw a fit and said he likely would never play again. Which didn't help at all for game 3 because...

Game 3
I played that guys son, who was running a... strange... Sloane list of of an ISD Cymoon, Quasar, and a Victory 1 with Mauler, Rudor, Howl and 2 tie fighters. Apparently he won his first game 10-1, lost and now we were playing at table 3 to determine who ultimately would end up 4th or 5th. I choose 1st player and picked his Targeting beacons. He made some errors in his deployment, and again, I deployed off to the side at speed 3 so that I would only ever be engaged by one ship at a time. Starting with his Victory and ending at his Cymoon. All of his speeds went speed 1 and he NEVER attempted to turn his Cymoon towards my fleet at all to contribute to the battle. I chewed through his victory and squadrons in starting turn 2 and ending turn 3, killed his QF turn 4, and started placing damage on his ISD turn 5. At this point I made a small error, if I had disengaged I would of won 9-2. But I wanted that 10-1 win and saw no reason that Demo couldn't survive a front shot from the Cymoon at medium range, he had to move his ISD towards my Demo which would place in in close range for an easy double arc and enough damage to end the ISD.

I moved my ISD, threw some bombers and rammed his ISD leaving it at 6 hull and some scattering of shields left. I had Demo with double arc and 3 tie bombers left ready to finish the job. He activated his Cymoon and made the ONLY front arc attack of the entire game on turn 6 at Demo. He was running a strange build of QTC and XX-9's. He threw his dice and rolled the perfect roll, got a red acc which gave him another red acc, and a blue acc to lock down all my tokens on Demo and still managed to put out exactly 7 damage to kill it (Demo was down one hull from a ram before.). With no longer having the ability to kill the ISD after demo was gone, we called it there for an 8-3 my way.

This was enough to give me 5th (out of 10) although if I had gotten 10-1's in game 2 and 3 I believe I could of ended in 4th (The scoring got close in there.)

The whole time the son's Dad that I had played kept coming over, watching me destroy his sons fleet and dropping "comments" about how this game was broken and he didn't see why they should play it anymore. So guess we'll see if those two show up again. They aren't brand new players (been around since the end of last year) but still new enough that some concepts of the game they haven't quite grasped yet. So I hope they just learn from the losses, ask questions, and move forward. I told them how I placed dead last in NOVA open last year but I didn't let that stop me from learning a vast amount of experience which only improved my play.


So I still have another 4 tournaments left to attend in the next month with this list. Store championship's at Borderlands this weekend, Red Castle on the 28th, Portland Game Store Aug 4th and a for fun tournament at Geeks and Games Aug 11th. So I'll complete those four and report back.

Overall thoughts about this list, I'll include my thoughts from hands on table and from Vassal as well.

I feel that I still haven't really faced a fleet that makes this list "struggle", and I think that's partly due to the fleets I've faced and the caliber of players behind them in terms of hands on table.
Face some hard decisions, sure. The only big blowout losses I've suffered have come from triple Cymoon. Not because I think it is a good list, but just from lack of experience needed on how to approach and pick it apart. That's the only list hands on table I've had trouble with.
As for Vassal, I tend to experiment more and make choices based on "why not, let's see what happens" because I feel that is how you put a list through it's paces instead of playing how I would in a tournament. That said, when facing other Thrawn Bomber lists, both sides coming out on the losing end of things. No victory is greater than 7 points.

I love how flexible this list can be with Thrawn, dialing up Nav and Squadron dials (either 2 of one and 1 of the other depending) just means that you can really throw your opponent when you do a double nav to do some speed craziness. And doing Squad / Nav means you can put your ISD right where it needs to go. This list also brings serious ship killing power IF you can get your Kuat into range and you don't do something dumb with it. It melts enemy squadrons. Either they ignore my bombers, so I send them to go bomb, or if they lock down my bombers, I murder them. Either way, I usually end up on the winning side of squadron points by the end of it.

From my experience, this list does suffer from being able to be picked down, or apart while you are closing from long range. Long and medium range is where this list is at it's worst, and if you're facing a list that excels at those ranges, you're taking a lot of damage that you're not able to answer in return even with the bombers supporting. This is especially true if the thing you are trying to chase is able to stay ahead of you. MC30's and TRC90's, speed 3 and 4 make it impossible to find a way to get the Kuat where it needs to be in order to shoot at close range.

To end, this list archetype is "good" against most things but can struggle to win more than 8 points, unless the opponent is making errors, but typically won't lose more than 4. Except when faced with the "bad" matchups, it stands to lose more. This list very much fits my overall playstyle and I've been loving it ever since I picked it up.

18 minutes ago, Karneck said:

**Snip**

I feel that I still haven't really faced a fleet that makes this list "struggle", and I think that's partly due to the fleets I've faced and the caliber of players behind them in terms of hands on table.
Face some hard decisions, sure. The only big blowout losses I've suffered have come from triple Cymoon. Not, because I think it is a good list, but just from lack of experience needed on how to approach and pick it apart. That's the only list hands on table I've had trouble with.
**Snip**

To end, this list archetype is "good" against most things but can struggle to win more than 8 points, unless the opponent is making errors, but typically won't lose more than 4. Except when faced with the "bad" matchups, it stands to lose more. This list very much fits my overall playstyle and I've been loving it ever since I picked it up.

This is why I like armada. Most fleets have the ability to get at least a 6-5 out of most opponents (Read, non-specific hard counters and non-anti-synergistic fleets) based entirely on player skill. It feels like fleet building matters, but if I mess up it doesn't condemn me to complete failure (Again, barring anti-synergy). Its a game of skill on the table as well as fleet building.

In regards to tilting, I think it happens to everyone, more or less. I have a local that says that whatever they play with is the worst card / ship in the game (Including the HMC80, which confused me), but keeps coming back. I think every time I go on tilt, It just means I have something to learn, or something I missed. That said, there are times when I can understand getting tilted more than others. for example, a Cymoon rolling 5 blanks and Vadering into 5 blanks, or a full health ISD or VSD moving onto an asteroid and getting the crit that makes you speed 0. Both of those can feel really bad, but ultimately its just 1 game. Play another, and try something new.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/07/whats-in-name-name-titles-and-fleet.html

Name titles and now we're done with wave 7 new stuff!

Is it true that you asked FFG to hold off on new announcements until you could finish your Wave 7 posts?

13 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

Is it true that you asked FFG to hold off on new announcements until you could finish your Wave 7 posts?

Ha, if we had that kind of power it would probably go to my head ? . If FFG was holding off on our behalf, though, you're free to go any time now, FFG.

On 7/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, Karneck said:

The only big blowout losses I've suffered have come from triple Cymoon. Not because I think it is a good list, but just from lack of experience needed on how to approach and pick it apart. That's the only list hands on table I've had trouble with.

Triple Cymoon ruling the world, here we go!

More seriously that's a point I made talking about Triple Cymoon. To say "there are only three activations and no squadron coverage" is not a real plan to deal with them.

I updated the Madine article. Spoiler alert: you need a reason to not be taking Raddus, guys. If you can find it, I think he still may have some uses. If you can find it.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/05/commanders-cornerknow-your-enemy-crix.html

@Snipafist

Should update the Screed article since he works with squadrons now.

5 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

@Snipafist

Should update the Screed article since he works with squadrons now.

Not with.

Against.

A ship still needs to be attacking.

Specifically, the FAQ is referring to a counter shot granted by QLTs...

You can Screed one of those..

15 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Not with.

Against.

A ship still needs to be attacking.

Specifically, the FAQ is referring to a counter shot granted by QLTs...

You can Screed one of those..

Awww

25 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Awww

Because of all of those Imperial fighter crit effects. Or our two dice bombers. ?

Screed & Flechettes too, though just one of your shots. Still, guaranteed no Ten Numb or Luke for a turn is so good.

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Not with.

Against.

A ship still needs to be attacking.

Specifically, the FAQ is referring to a counter shot granted by QLTs...

You can Screed one of those..

So you can activate the squad that just activated to shoot you, with your counter?

?

42 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

So you can activate the squad that just activated to shoot you, with your counter?

?

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yeah, that was my reaction. I don't know why you would need a crit effect when you are being attacked by squads. I understand the use of flechettes when you are flaking squads though.

That's what I was trying to say....

54 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

Yeah, that was my reaction. I don't know why you would need a crit effect when you are being attacked by squads. I understand the use of flechettes when you are flaking squads though.

That's what I was trying to say....

There is exactly one use for it:
Unique squad attacks a ship with Quad Laser Turrets and Agent Kallus. QLTs rolls its blue Counter 1 and Kallus adds a black die. Neither do anything good. Screed ditches the blue die to flip the black die to the hit+crit side to deliver 1 damage.

That's literally all the Screed update does. It's otherwise completely useless.

You forgot to note that the attacking squadron must be unique. It really is a niche use.

I updated the Mon Mothma article (she's still good, guys! I didn't have much to add but I did clarify some ship usage suggestions with her)

And I added in 2 paragraphs to the "Running Squadronless" Squadrons Encyclopedia article , conveniently repasted below.

How do i know if my fleet can go squadronless?
I hesitate to recommend "squadronless" to anyone just starting out at playing the game, as it involves a bit of knowing what squadrons can do to your ships, what they can kill, where they can get to. Yes, it sucks when Sloane's squadrons evaporate the tiny force you brought, but understanding what happens AFTER they evaporate is almost MORE important to understanding how to run squadronless. Knowing WHAT your opponent can do with squadrons is key. That may sound weird, that you have to know squadrons before you can stop using them, but the better you understand that part of the game, the better you can be at countering opponents who run it. Think of it like a martial art; the better you KNOW Mantis or Crane or Tiger style, the better you can be at countering it.

There's no charge for awesomeness... or my advice!

It's not just a matter of "kill their carriers fast, I don't need squadrons." If your 4 YT-2400s die every game but they allow you to tie up the entire Sloane squadron ball as you kill the carrier over 2 turns, that's a win for you (and a reason TO bring squadrons). No matter what you run, you need to be able to know how to put the carrier DOWN fast with your ships. Practice, practice, practice.