I have a question regarding the Dark Elf Tactic card "Hate": Action: Take 1 resource from each opponent and add it to your available resources

If an opponent plays a unit, support, quest and is left with more than zero resources and I play Hate, he can respond with a tactic of his own or spend the resource as an action with a card in play, so there might not be a resource left for me to steal because of Last In First Out.

My question is do I have to reverse the order and wait for him to play his own tactic and then play my hate? If we follow Last In First Out my tactic will steal his resource before his tactic/action will happen. Is this correct?

If my above question is correct what occurs if my opponent no longer has the resources to pay for his tactic / action? Is the action cancelled / Is the card discarded? My guess is that the resource is spent when the card is played so there is nothing to steal.

So the only time Hate is every really useful is if your opponent has no tactics in their hand and they don't have a card on the board where you can spend resources as an action. Oh yeah and as a development.

Anyone else see a use for Hate that i'm missing?

Yes, he could play a tactic or an action "in response" to Hate and use up the last resource to prevent you from getting it. That would cause your Hate to get used up for nothing.

Frankly, the card is more useful when, and if, we ever get the multiplayer rules.

Yes. Here's how you normally want to use Hate.

Let's say you have 1 DE loyalty on the board (in the future this will be from your capital). In their kingdom phase, right after they get their resources, you Hate them. Now the only way they can avoid having a resource stolen is to play a tactic that uses them all and then they won't be able to play units etc. this turn. This is most effective near the beginning of the game where resources are a tight constraint on both players. Coincidentally, "We Need Your Blood!" costs 1. Do I have to draw a picture at this point?

Clamatius said:

Do I have to draw a picture at this point?

If it includes Witch Elves, yes please !

Vollick1979 said:

So, can the resource planned to be used with the opponent's tactic be stolen by Hate ? Or is it spent when the tactic hits the table and can't be stolen (only other resource left can be) ?

I also guess the later is the right call. You pay the card cost when it hits the ground, not when it's resolved. If not, you could play any tactics... wait for your opponent's reaction and play another tactic(s), using your tokens planned for your first (effectivly cancelling it).

Resources and other costs are paid when you play the card, not when it resolves. So you can't counter cards via Hate's draining resources.

Note that this also applies to non-resource costs, like Culling the Weak ("Action: Sacrifice a unit to have all units in your battlefield gain [P] until the end of the turn.") - the sacrifice occurs when you play the card, so you can't counter CtW via killing all their remaining units in response.

For a card like Brutal Offering ("ACTION: Sacrifice a Unit. If you do, deal X damage to each unit in all Battlefields, where X is the sacrificed Unit's Power.") the sacrifice is an effect, not a cost, so you play that sacrifice at resolution time.

Actually I'm not seeing why the Sacrifice of Brutal Offering would NOT be a "cost?' It's pretty clear that if you do not pay that cost, e.g., the "sacrificed unit", that the rest of the power doesn't work.

It's the magical "to" word - it acts like ":" in Magic.

Compare Culling the Weak and Brutal Offering:

Action: Sacrifice a unit to have all units in your battlefield gain [P] until the end of the turn.

Action: Sacrifice a unit. If you do, deal X damage to each unit in all battlefields, where X is the sacrificed unit's power.

Notice the "if you do" clause for Brutal Offering. That gives you a big hint that the sacrifice might not happen and the only way that could be possible is if the sacrifice happens at resolution time. You cannot play Culling the Weak without having a unit in play, whereas you can play Brutal Offering if you have no units.

Well you realize that my first response will be...this ain't Magic.

But that being said, there would be NO benefit to playing Brutal Offering without having a Unit in play to trigger its effects.

Yeah, I realise that this isn't magic. I'm just saying that the "to" is the equivalent.

While you would never play Brutal Offering without a unit in play, it is legal to do so. However, it is entirely possible that the unit you intended to Brutally Offer has an "accident" before the Offering resolves...

Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain that the designers did not intend these similar mechanics to play out differently. Rather, it's caused by a lack of strong and consistent templating. Maybe one day we'll have errata so that things are consistent, and cards printed going forward will also be consistent.

Clamatius said:

Well, you could play Grasping Darkness in response to your own Brutal Offering without units in play.

Sacrifice

Sacrifice means to put a card that you
control into its owner’s discard pile. It
cannot be cancelled or prevented by
other effects.

Control

Players “control” cards that they
own, unless another player steals control of the card
through a game effect. Any time a card leaves play,
it reverts to its owner’s hand, deck, discard pile (as
directed by the effect forcing the card out of play).

So, if i read sacrifie rule : You can sacrifie a target card from play, your hand, deck or discard pile at resolution time.

So even if you kill it, return to owner hands , player can sacrifie it.

Note that a card is only in play if it is in one of the three zones.

"In play is the Kingdom, Quest, and
Battlefield zones."

"Out of play is the deck, hand, and
discard pile zones."(FAQ, p. 6)

I don't read "In play" in sacrifice description. it's only unit you "control".

Maybe, I forget something ?

If a unit isn't in play, then no one "controls" it.

RM

So, if I return a Dwarf unit played as a development, to its owner hand (via Abandoned mine), it triggers Dwar ranger's ability, doesn't it?

Tobogan said:

no because it is not a dwarf unit but a development.