This isn't my notion but something I heard about from another group. It has to do mostly with mage and theurge characters (Wizard, Prophetess, Cultist, Priest, etc.)... any character clearly of spell caster or religious origin and not just a "magical" nature (Sprite, Pixie, etc.).

Upon any spell being cast at such a character or its current space, the target may attempt to nullify the spell so cast. Chance of dispelling is resolved the same as for Psychic Combat. If the target wins, the spell has no effect and is still discarded. On a tie, the spell still succeeds. If the target loses, the spell of course also succeeds.

Not certain about it myself, but thought I would share it just the same. The group in question also had rules that increased spell accessibility, but I didn't care for some of that. One aspect was that all such characters could draw a spell when landing on their starting space. With some new characters starting in the middle region now, there would definitely be some early to late game inequities.

So, does this mean that a "magical" character would always have a free Nullify Spell? It seems a little much seeing as it would not impact of Spell limits really.

Sort of free... I guess. You still have to defeat the spell's caster in a mock Psychic Combat to nullify the spell cast at you. I suppose with this option in play, their rules for increased spell access (I don't know ALL of those) might be the counterbalance. And the Nullify spell was still an automatic, like always, so probably preferable to have when facing a spell assault from character with superior Craft.

Hmm.. so really it is an extra "ability" rather than a spell.

I am not sure about it to be honest, but would be interested to see a balancing benefit for other characters, or penalty for spell slingers.

Yea, generally ability for all spell slingers. And the balance issue is certainly a concern. I like then notion of true mages and theurges operating closer to imagined expertise, but it does produce and unfair advantage if they can nullify a spell from a non-mage and then perhaps immediately return fire with another spell. Maybe therein is something to limit them...?

Perhaps it could be an "ability" that could be learned by any Character instead? However, rather than being a freebie, it could take the form of a card which replaces a Spell card in your arsenal. So a Character might have 2 ordinary spells, plus the permanent Nullify. That way it could still be lost through the usual negating processes, would not be a freebie and they would have the choice of whether to use up a Spell slot for it.

Then "natural" spell slingers would be able to obtain it and benefit from it early on in the game, but it would allow others to catch up later in the game.

That's interesting! So it would be a Spell card but with a notation as an "ability"? I'm trying to imagine how such a card would actually look, but I'm not completely certain how you see it.

It could be anything really, but would hark back to cards that take on another guise. Like the 2nd Edition Poltergeist that you would take AS a Follower, though it was not actually one.

A simple rule amendment would be needed or merely noted, so that anyone with this "ability" can use it as a Spell, but it is not discarded after use, but may lose it should something like Nullify be used.

Oh yes, and because of that we would need another name! (Vitiate?)

I guess for the "look" of the card I am not sure. I think it should be something that would reflect the idea of it being a learned ability, rather than anything else. Ideas?

Hmmm... for the look, if it is mixed in with the Spells, it's hard to say. Perhaps best to just format it like a Spell but add a subtype like found on some Objects (Weapon, etc.). Should there ever be other cards in other decks to ever gain special non-magical abilites, I suppose that subtype should just be "Special Ability".... or maybe "Magical Ability"?

Is there a spell called Dispel? I can't remember.

I think a general rule included with the card could cover that it is not discarded when used. That and a subtype should clarify it. I might describe this one as follows (though some of this could be left out if included in external rules) :

==========
Dispel
Spell
Special Ability

Counts against Spell limit, can be removed like any Spell, or discard at will. When a spell is cast at you or your current space, you may challenge the caster. Both of you roll as for Psychic Combat. If you win, the spell has no effect.
==========

Hmmm... now I'm off on this strange tangent, thinking of other like cards that might be possible. This is certainly a unique idea, Jon. I was wondering if separate new decks, one for Craft-based and one for Strength based additional abilities is a worthwhile notion. Any character instead of trading trophies for tokens could instead trade the same amount for an "ability" card. Then again, maybe that's not desirable as many new characters already have a handful of special abilities. What do you think? Better to just keep the "magical abilities" thing in the spell deck, or ....?

Hey guys,

As you mentioned, I also think this should be an earned ability. I see it too compleks if it goes to all spellcasters and keep the game balance the same time. First I saw it would fit better as an ability to a single character, but then the whole idea with this is something else. If you could earn it, I was thinking of something like 3rd. edition Talisman City expansion, where you could become a highmage as I remember it. Maybe you could earn it from a stranger in the adventure deck. The way you earn it could maybe be combined somehow with warlock quests or maybe a whole new deck with highmage quests or something. Well, that was just some ideas.

cheer

Now I am going on this one too Now talking NPC's, there could be made a highmage where you somehow could earn abilities. And one of them could be this one.

cheer

Couldn't get this out of my mind.

Gnome High Mage
Start location: City
Move: After each time a character lands on the Gnome, he wanders d6 clockwise.
Encounter: If a character lands on the same space as the Gnome, that character may chose to encounter the Gnome or the space.Roll a dice on the reaction table, If that caharacter encounters the Gnome.
Reaction Table:
1. ”You make me ashame of my kind” Discard all your spells.
2. ”Get out of my sight” You are teleported back to your start location.
3. ”Stop following me” Miss one turn.
4. ”So you are a spell caster?… hmfp” Ignored.
5. ”Sure I will teach you… If you pay” Pay 1 gold to gain 1 spell.
6. ”You have what it takes” You learn one of the High Mage skills. Draw a random High Mage card.

High Mage cards: One of the skills could be this dispell rule the topic introduced. Others could be something like always gain one extra spell when you gain one or maybe learn to teleport back to start location at will.

cheer

Well, maybe. Don't get me wrong, I do like it. I'd prefer that supposed ability cards (for lack of better term) have to be gained from an npc or a place. Afterall, that's how most Spells are gained for non-spell-slingers. But I think most players will want to stay on the move and would prefer either gain an additional special ability while on the move. Whether that's by

1. random draw (magical abilities mixed into the Spell deck) or
2. purchase / trade (turning trophies or something else in to draw form one or more abilities deck(s)

is the question. We started off with one special ability that would be inside the spell deck, and perhaps there are others that could be done, or maybe not. The notion of abilities decks was something I through in there, but it still remains something that characters would gain on the move. The game is played more competitively these days, and it seems with less of an emphasis on the adventuring as well in rush for the CoC. I may not care for that as much as others, but its worth remembering if creating something new with greater appeal than just myself.

This is slightly off topic, but it was raised at the top of this thread ^

Is there any good houserules that involve a character's starting location? Something small like replenishing one fate or one gold, maybe similar to praying at the chapel or graveyard. 1-4 ignored, 5: 1 gold, 6: 1 fate

Thoughts?

The only one that I know of in general use is that spell casters (not all characters) draw one Spell whenever visiting their Starting space. I know there are some other standard special abilities related to singular target spaces... but the Spell one is the only one I know of as a semi-common house rule. Maybe Jon or someone else knows of others related to Starting spaces.

JCHendee said:

I see your point JC. I do not like having the abilities drawn in spell deck. Mostly due to the creation of such a card. It would be hard not to see it coming in the deck due to color differenties unless you use card sleves for your spell cards.

From what you just wrote I got a new idea crossing my mind. There could be an ability card that you place beside your character card, where you have to do some different things in the game to gain these abilities/titles. Maybe you have to do 3-4 things to become a High Mage. Whenever you have done one of the things you place a craft counter on it to see that you have completed it. There could be an abiliti card for "spell Casters" and one for "non spell casters".

Maybe 3 differnt titles to earn on each abiliti card.

cheers

Mr. Brogger said:

That's why almost all using fan made stuff have sleeves. Print some extra backs, slip them in behind commercial cards, and PRESTO! They all look the same... of course it is a little bit of an investment of money / time, now that the decks are GROWING!

Mr. Brogger said:

An excellent notion... but I'm thinking for the so-called "master" or "Level 2" addon characters that appeared with the City expansion! I hated the way those were implemented. Anyone picking one up immediately became a spell magnet to other players in our games. Better that the first one there "applies" for the job and then had to complete certain tasks or fulfill requirements. Fail and that master card goes back for someone else to try to gain. But that's probably more than the average player would want to bother with.

Here's rough mock up of the "ability" Jon and I discussed. Some other magical special abilities come to mind as well, but I'll leave off that for now. This is rough indeed, and needs further thought. It's in the original form for a Spell draw. I'm still contemplating the possibility of how an "abilities" deck might work, but I'm already foreseeing problems on that path. But what the heck, this is all just notions for now. The illustratiion is one that I had lying around and not necessarily the best choice.

ADDITIONAL: When we stop for moment to consider, this is a very potent ability for a high Craft character. It could easily make one very hard to take out with the Command Spell. But I think having it count against Spell limit, require a contest rather than being automatic, and being removable like a Spell does mitigate it somewhat. Any other thoughts on this issue?

JCHendee said:

I like the image. I see your last notion with the issue. This is a tricky one to solve. One thing that could be done is to say, that using this ability cost you a spell (maybe random). Or another solution: Mis your next turn.

cheer

Miss a turn is a common price for a number of abilities and options. I had thought of that too. I'm just not so sure considering all over aspects.

This ability is certianly not as potent as Nullify, Reflection and other "counter" options that have 100% success. It is based on a contest of Craft... of Will, per se... and is not guarenteed to always work. But it does (for better or worse) step beyond players chucking cards at each other and brings characters back into the use of magic.

It already takes the place of one Spell, limiting the number you have, which has a maximum of 3 in the game. So the loss of a further Spell in use seems to compound the ability's cost too much... at least in that one area.

This may be one of those interesting notions that just doesn't work out in the end. As the only other thing that might be possible to address the Command Spell specifically is to compound the card's description with a ruling on that. I'm not sure that's a good solution though. And that is more about compensating for that standard ending (which doesn't get played in my group).

I would just flat out ignore the CoC consideration if I weren't trying to find a way to make this work with wider appeal. Maybe that's not possible either without hobbling it to the point that it would never be used. As it stands, I might use it. If it kept costing me a turn and or a spell, I would probably ditch it soon if not immediately.

JCHendee said:

I think the potent of this ability is that you always have the chance to dispel a spell. And other players will think twice before targeting their spells on you. I think the los of a spell to use the ability is pretty fair for that. And in the hands of a spell cycler, this cost is not a big deal. And considering the spell cycler, this ability could end up pretty owerpowered, so the spell you pay should proabaly be at random so that, if a player has a good spell, would think twice before using the ability.

Hope all this makes sense.

cheers

Yup, that makes sense, and indeed for a spell cycler it wouldn't be as costly as for others.

Here's another take on Dispel based on Mr.B's suggestion. For those interested, I've started a spin-off topic called Addon Special Abilities.

nice card!in your opinion, how many disspel card must be put in the deck (i've got dungeon, reaper and frostmarch expansion)? i thought about 2 dispel cards, no more. what do you think about it?

anyway thanks for the great job!!

Indeed, if you what to go with drawing magical "special abilities" from the Spell deck, they shouldn't be plentiful. A ratio approach is better than just a count. I'd say maybe one of any kind of magical "Special Ability" (I've some ideas for more) per 20-25 normal spells. Ones that affect other spells directly should be less; utilitarian ones maybe a little more.

Overall, the concept of these popping up inside the Spell deck is sound. This aproach will appeal more to standard players (versus some of us hardcore brewers) than say alternative cards/decks for addon special abilities.

Here's another one for consideration and review. It is designed to be more costly than the alchemy spell (since you use a slot in your Spell limit), the standard Alchemy ability, and the actual coming Alchemist character. It might need another title to help distinguish it a little better from the standard spell.

I'm going to move discussion into a new topic since we've left the Dispel Rule itself behind.