Maybe the merger with Asmodee has a few unforeseen problems. Expanding market means you are also expanded to those that parasite off that market (Still going by the shoplifters are customers too modern model). I know there was C&D on shape way over them making models that were not released yet by FFG (and that was before the merger).

However taking their brick and mortar answer into account company policies can encourage counterfeiting. One of the most controversial changes with the merger is announcing to a sole retailer for all FFG products. If that causes any supply issues retailer stores might feel the need to go through other channels and thus end up with counterfeit items.

So reading back to their interview on distribution policies (the one that moved everything to one distributor) I can't say I feel sorry for them. I can't even say I buy the message. So maybe counterfeiting is just them reaping what they sow.

7 hours ago, Ikka said:

As someone who buys some Forge World products recast, I can confirm that the "shrinkage" is basically non-existent among the more professional recasters. What you will see is lack of detail, air bubbles, and/or mold lines that wouldn't be on the original model. Someone with a very basic understanding of modeling (sanding, filing, and light green stuff work) has no issue making recasted models look like the original.

As for X-wing, as far as I know there are no recasters currently producing any figures for it. It is a niche market- 40k/AoS makes a much larger fanbase for a recaster to make a profit from. Aside from Games Workshop products, the only games that see any real amount of recasting are Privateer Press (WarmaHords) or Infinity.

There is also the issue that most recasters use resin and while the XWMG plastic isn't too dissimilar in regards to weight as what a recaster would do in resin, there are some major difficulties that recaster would have to go through to produce X-wing minis- the small details and overall smaller miniatures in X-wing mean that any sort of issues that are normal for recast minis would be much more noticeable in X-wing. Bottom line- it is most likely too difficult to produce, has too small of a fan base (in absolute terms, not monetarily), and basically isn't worth a recaster's time to make fake X-wing models.

I agree 100%. I'm sure that I could easily reproduce any of the huge or large ships in resin and they would visually indistinguishable, but you are correct about the normal ships. They would be very hard to recast and even if you were able to get a good mold, they would be all but impossible to pour and not have every one have major issues with air bubbles, miscasts, details lost, etc. As far as weight goes, I think there would be a noticable difference between a recast and an original. The originals are thin walled and hollow, where as a recast would be a solid chunk of resin. So unless you took every huge and large ship apart and molded them piece by piece, used clay or some other medium to slightly increase the inner thickness of the walls of each piece for pouring purposes (if that even allows reassembly - I've never taken any ships apart, so I don't know) cast each piece, then reassembled each ship, fixed any imperfections, and painted it to a factory standard, you would still have a slight weight increase and your in the project for many hours at this point, just to sell it for less? No profit in that. The truth is XWMG is just not conducive to recasting at all, and even more so if your intent is to try to sell your recasts as originals

On 6/29/2018 at 1:37 AM, JJFDVORAK said:

When I was younger and not as morally grounded, I did a good bit of "Forged World" as I called it. I never sold anything, but I do admit it was wrong just the same. I played 40k and I would buy one Forgeworld model and then use RTV silicone rubber and resin to make many copies. I had several flyers and drop pods before everyone did(before the plastic kits)by that method. I never had an issue with shrinkage of any kind and I was good enough that GW employees couldn't tell my fakes from real models. I tell this story to demonstrate that if I could do that as a college student in my basement, a "real" counterfeiter would never put out a product you could distinguish from a real one, unless they truly didn't care. I don't buy Asmodees story on shrinkage. I tend to agree with other posters who have said the counterfeiter is probably the same company as the official provider, but since they are over seas, they are harder to monitor. Just my two cents.

I have no information on the matter, but could the difference be that you were doing it slowly, individually, while they’re doing some massive bulk process and that’s where the shrinkage comes in?

While the topic of recasting miniatures is fascinating, I’m pretty sure in the interview they were talking about plastic pieces like the trains for ticket to ride (especially in regards to the 10% shrinking issue).

28 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

While the topic of recasting miniatures is fascinating, I’m pretty sure in the interview they were talking about plastic pieces like the trains for ticket to ride (especially in regards to the 10% shrinking issue).

Pretty sure this is the case.

Don't want people to counterfeit?

Then don't charge three times what something is worth... or try and make people buy bits of cardboard for ridiculous prices, just in order to keep playing with what they already own.

Job done. No thanks needed. Cheers!

55 minutes ago, madquest8 said:

Don't want people to counterfeit?

Then don't charge three times what something is worth... or try and make people buy bits of cardboard for ridiculous prices, just in order to keep playing with what they already own.

Job done. No thanks needed. Cheers!

You do realize that's not how stuff works, right?

No matter how little you charge for stuff as a western company, as long as you make profit, a Chinese guy can undercut you by a pretty large margin. He doesn't have to pay designers and distribution channel workers at all, while you do, many if them at US/Western Europe salary levels.

Right now, the only defense against counterfeiting is to make your stuff less profitable to counterfeit than other people s stuff. Nobody counterfeits X-wing because, for the guys who can do it, it's way more profitable to counterfeit 40k, for example.

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

You do realize that's not how stuff works, right?

No matter how little you charge for stuff as a western company, as long as you make profit, a Chinese guy can undercut you by a pretty large margin. He doesn't have to pay designers and distribution channel workers at all, while you do, many if them at US/Western Europe salary levels.

Right now, the only defense against counterfeiting is to make your stuff less profitable to counterfeit than other people s stuff. Nobody counterfeits X-wing because, for the guys who can do it, it's way more profitable to counterfeit 40k, for example.

Sounds like the question here is whether the markup Asmodee sells its products at, after all other costs, is a reasonable one, or whether they're taking the piss.

Asmodee is a public company, right? The profit they make is presumably public knowledge. It's obviously a matter of opinion how much profit constitutes taking the piss, but we do need that figure before we can argue about whether they are or not.

Therefore, I'd suggest before someone (@madquest8) accuses them of " charge[ing] three times what something is worth... or try[ing] and make people buy bits of cardboard for ridiculous prices " they present the figures. I'm not having a go, I know people just like to state their opinions and that's fine, I'm just saying the figures would make it clearer what the deal is.

13 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Right now, the only defense against counterfeiting is to make your stuff less profitable to counterfeit than other people s stuff. Nobody counterfeits X-wing because, for the guys who can do it, it's way more profitable to counterfeit 40k, for example.

You don't have to run faster than the lion chasing you, you just have to run faster than the guy next to you...

34 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Sounds like the question here is whether the markup Asmodee sells its products at, after all other costs, is a reasonable one, or whether they're taking the piss.

No, it's not. It doesn't matter what markup they're charging, a forger can undercut them.

Asmodee has to pay the developers, modelers, and artists, as well as paying Disney their cut for the license and keeping in a margin for the FLGS to take as a retailer.

A forger doesn't have to pay any of those costs, just the raw price of production (or, often, a lower price of production achieved via lower quality or safety). Development plus production is always going to cost more than just production, so there will always be a certain dollar margin for forgers to undercut the original. Asmodee could be selling products at exactly break-even, not making any profit at all, and that wouldn't stop recasters from being able to undercut them.

And, in the article, the primary concern is that these counterfeit products are being sold as the real-deal on sites like Amazon, by small pop-up sellers who just open new accounts faster than the fakes can possibly be detected by Asmodee.

(As a side note, if you think Asmodee's markup is excessive, go open your own board game company with lower prices - capitalism!)

1 hour ago, Cartchan said:

You don't have to run faster than the lion chasing you, you just have to run faster than the guy next to you...

Depends on the lion's motivations.

46 minutes ago, svelok said:

No, it's not. It doesn't matter what markup they're charging, a forger can undercut them.

Asmodee has to pay the developers, modelers, and artists, as well as paying Disney their cut for the license and keeping in a margin for the FLGS to take as a retailer.

A forger doesn't have to pay any of those costs, just the raw price of production (or, often, a lower price of production achieved via lower quality or safety). Development plus production is always going to cost more than just production, so there will always be a certain dollar margin for forgers to undercut the original. Asmodee could be selling products at exactly break-even, not making any profit at all, and that wouldn't stop recasters from being able to undercut them.

And, in the article, the primary concern is that these counterfeit products are being sold as the real-deal on sites like Amazon, by small pop-up sellers who just open new accounts faster than the fakes can possibly be detected by Asmodee.

(As a side note, if you think Asmodee's markup is excessive, go open your own board game company with lower prices - capitalism!)

I was responding to a post saying " Don't want people to counterfeit? Then don't charge three times what something is worth... or try and make people buy bits of cardboard for ridiculous prices, just in order to keep playing with what they already own. " That might not have been obvious because I quoted a post which quoted him, and the forum strips out nested quotes.