25 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

I really like the Marvel movies they have been making, even though they deviate from even the recent comics pretty heavily. Maybe the difference is that comics fans have become used to constant resets, retcons, and changes. They do what they want in the comics and have to make up for past artists that did the same. Maybe superhero fans just roll with the changes a little bit better by now?

Luke : So, it is time for the Jedi Order to end?

Yoda : Time, it is...hmm, for you to look past a pile of old books, hmm?

Luke : The sacred Jedi texts!

Yoda : Oh? Read them, have you?

Luke : Well, I...

Yoda : Page-turners, they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom, they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. Ah, Skywalker...still looking to the horizon. Never here! [pokes Luke with his walking stick] Now, hmm? The need in front of your nose!

Luke : I was weak. Unwise.

Yoda : Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, you must not.

Luke : I can't be what she needs me to be!

Yoda : Heeded my words not, did you? "Pass on what you have learned." Strength, mastery, hmm...but weakness, folly, failure , also. Yes, failure, most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.

If what you get from this is "completely forget the past", would you please try reading it again? This is a pretty central point to the movie and many of the important, main characters phrase it on their own way. Sure, Kylo has the message slightly skewed to the dark side, but well, he is supposed to be a villain. They say lots of things that are not what we want to teach children. I think the message is that you can't be afraid to admit weakness and fault in yourself or your lessons to your students will ring hollow in the end, when they realize you are just a fallible person under those Jedi robes. If Kylo knew a little more about how the story of Vader really ended things could be very different.

Well, Kylo was the one who "betrayed" his plan. He didn't really want the First Order to go away after Snoke was dead. His idea of "let the past die" really meant:

Kill the rebels and Luke, and train Rey in the dark side, while ruling over the galaxy with a gigantic army.

That doesn't sound like letting the past die. Rey sees this, and leaves him.

The Dark Side has a slippery slope quality to it, and Ben is a bit too far down.

The problem with the Last Jedi, is that the core message (let the past die), is not a bad one, and it uses most of the runtime to establish that as an idea, both by Luke and Kylo.

And then, there comes a turn, which wasn't really well done, and it feels off.

At the end, we have a film that discusses the possibility of letting the past die, and in the last 30 minutes every major character doubles down on the old status quo.

Luke becomes the symbol of Hope.

Kylo becomes the evil emperor of an oppressive regime.

Rey escapes with a handful of rebels, to lead the cause against her personal enemy

This isn't a bad message, necessarily, but there are a few crucial mistakes about it.

A, they really shouldn't try to equate "the past" with the original trilogy... Which they had. It's very on the nose... its one thing that the final message of the film is the "past" being revived, but given the lack of respect the ST treats it's source material makes it problematic. Every achievement of the OT heroes is systematically erased. I fully blame J.J. for that, so he can go suck a fat one, but the point remains. You can't really expect people to buy your final message when these new movies were the ones that killed the spirit of the OT in the first place.

B, Again, the film establishes the "letting the past die" idea and plays with it for a long time. The pacing is off, and people can't really get invested in the newfound ideas of Luke and Rey. It's a very quick change from "let the past die" to "long live the past".

I think TLJ is an almost great movie. It had potential, but it had the unfortunate situation of following a film made by JJ "Mysterybox" Abrahms, and some poor decisions were made during it.

1 hour ago, RebelProfundity said:

If what you get from this is "completely forget the past", would you please try reading it again? This is a pretty central point to the movie and many of the important, main characters phrase it on their own way. Sure, Kylo has the message slightly skewed to the dark side, but well, he is supposed to be a villain. They say lots of things that are not what we want to teach children. I think the message is that you can't be afraid to admit weakness and fault in yourself or your lessons to your students will ring hollow in the end, when they realize you are just a fallible person under those Jedi robes. If Kylo knew a little more about how the story of Vader really ended things could be very different.

Glad you brought this up specifically, whoever wrote this script is short sighted and quite frankly an idiot. I was reffering to specifically what kylo said but this is another great point. So the writer is basically saying power is corrupt and no one is above temptation, failure is a teacher and the jedi texts were boring useless fortune cookies. Ok on that note, the jedi kept peace, IN AN ENTIRE GALAXY, for what a thousand years? They get fooled by one exceptional being and a thousand year reign of civil order is rendered unimportant. The jedi way worked and Yoda is just like **** it. Forget what I told you before, this is what I really meant. Roll a fat one and chillax brother. Again tlj gets sooo much wrong I can’t outweigh it with anything good in it. I am just saying I understand people’s hate for these new stories, they aren’t good and as others have said the bar was set pretty low.

edit:also the order required absolute dedication to meditation, chastity, discipline. The fact Yoda says Rey has all she needs after a couple days of training is ludicrious and insulting to his life work. Can he change his mind? Sure. Would he do so willfully sending an untrained against trained dark side users that could turn her? Um no way in ****. His statement is dumb vs 900 years of wisdom and mental training.

12 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Tharkin had a pretty good reason to assume the Death Star was impervious to fighters. Apart from that single exhaust port, which took a farmboy strong in the Force to hit, that appeared to be the case. What he did was arrogance, not military incompetence.

On the other hand, there's ample evidence in canon that regular sized ships are NOT impervious to starfighters. Having a regular ship without its own fighter screen is military incompetence.

Okay, we'll dig a little deeper into that.

First, on the Death Star in Episode 4:

Officer: ''We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?''

Tarkin: ''Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!''

Okay, first off, who is this officer? You analyzed the attack and know there is a danger and your first reflex is to flee? How about trying to protect it at first by, I don't know, sending more fighters to actually protect it. We are talking about a 1 trillion credits battle station here, it's not something you should just let your enemy blow-up.

And Tarkin, I mean there is arrogance and there is arrogance. Your officer just informed you that there is a danger, implying that your battle station might blow up, and you do absolutely nothing? You just let them be, blowing a turbolaser here and there as if nothing is happening, as if the threat will suddenly disappear as soon as you blow up their base. I'm not sure if he knows, but those starfighter are not actually connected to the rebel base, they'll continue to fight even if the base blow up. But you know, why protect it? It's only worth a trillion credits, that's worth the risk that your officer might actually be right.

In my book, doing absolutely nothing when you learn that there is a danger is pretty close to military incompetence, if it's not THE definition of military incompetence.

-----

And then, over D'Qar in Episode 8, in front of a lone starfighter as a threat:

General Hux: ''Captain Canady, why aren't you blasting that puny ship?''

Captain Canady: ''That puny ship is too small and at close range. We need to scramble our fighters! Five bloody minutes ago...''

General Hux: ''He'll never penetrate our armor.''

Captain Canady: ''He's not trying to penetrate our armor. He's clearing out our surface cannons!''

So here at least, we have General Hux aknowledging right away that there is a threat that should be taken care of, even if the threat can't actually blow up his ship in itself 'He'll never penetrate our armor'. Can we use the card of arrogance here just like with Tarkin? But unlike Tarkin, what does General Hux do, he still launch the squadrons immediately to deal with the threat before he destroy all cannons. And let's face it, if the pilot was anyone instead of Poe, they would have probably succeeded. At least they are ready to intercept the real threat when the bombers arrive, and they get so close to stop them. Sadly for the First Order, it sucks to be the villain in an adventure movie and one bomber just slip by their defense and launch its payload just before firing their cannon and blow up the Raddus... so close.

So if I understand correctly: Doing absolutely nothing (remember also that it is Vader that takes the initative to launch some squadron, it's not an order from Tarkin) in front of a threat equal arrogance; acknowledging that there is a threat and reacting to it by launching more than enough squadrons equal military incompetence.

-----

But wait, maybe the difference here is that you should always protect your Star Destroyers with a fighter screen, unlike your trillion credits battle station. So maybe we should compare it to another scene from the OT, more close actually to what is happening in The Last Jedi. The Battle of Hoth.

What is the clear order of Vader? : '' Make ready to land our troops beyond the energy shield and deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off that system.''

So they must make a blockade... but deploy no squadron at all to intercept the transports or their escort, or just as its own fighter screen, like you said every regular ship should have. So what happens? All the transports pass them by, every rebels from Hoth escape to regroup elsewhere and fight another day. If only there was at least some fighters ready to intercept the transports. The battle of Hoth is a total failure. Can we also consider it military incompetence from the Empire? And speaking of fighter screen, shouldn't the Empire sent some fighters on the ground battle to protect the AT-AT, like the First Order did on Crait?

Moral of the story: Don't look at Star Wars if you are looking for a great strategical war movie. It's a space opera where the heroes will always win and the villain will always do stupid mistake so that the characters can have their heroics.

4 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

Lol, of course some people still think Boba is somehow better or more significant. Same as Palp is soooo much better than Snoke, even though we had to wait for the prequels to flesh him out at all. Sure, everyone will have a personal favorite. Sure, there are some minor differences. No one ever said they were exactly the same in every way.

The point is that they seem like very, very similar characters when you compare the original trilogy to the newest movies. I am sure that this is being done on purpose. Just admit it's personal preference like most opinions about what makes an entertaining movie or character. Using tiny differences between already insignificant, minor characters to try "prove" your opinion just seems a little desperate and silly.

The book about Phasma wasn't bad at all. Sorry you've got people coming here to tell you that your opinion is trash. You dared to mention a new trilogy character without foaming at the mouth in anger. This really gets some people angry lately. I really hope they do include her and that she is a powerful card.

I have yet to read the book (it's on my list), but I read the comics and it was fun. Phasma is a good character and we know she'll be in the new Resistance animated show coming this fall. I can't wait.

As for her role in the movie, I actually compare her to General Grievous. He doesn't do much in Episode 3 except looking cool with his 4 lightsaber, but we know he has an important role in the Separatist army. The Clone Wars really expend the character... sound familiar?

Phasma ability

When defending, you may lower the shields of all the ships in your Squad.

Then you may ignore the current attack and flee the battlefield.

This would be very thematic and represent her "greatest" deed in the movies ever

Don't blame me. I didn't write the script.

29 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

Phasma ability

When defending, you may lower the shields of all the ships in your Squad.

Then you may ignore the current attack and flee the battlefield.

This would be very thematic and represent her "greatest" deed in the movies ever

Don't blame me. I didn't write the script.

Sure.

Here are some more "accurate" cards:

C-3PO

After you finish a maneuver, if you are at range 1 from an obstacle, you may perform a red calculate action

Because he did nothing else, but annoy Han with his odds about asteroids.

Boba Fett

When defending against an enemy ship with the "Blinded Pilot" damage card, cancel all evade results.

A blinded Han accidentally tossed him into the Sarlacc pit

I don't understand why don't we make them like that!

The larger question is why do you care about Phasma at all in the first place? Her only defining characteristics are that she is shiny and has a few more lines than the average stormtrooper.

42 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The larger question is why do you care about Phasma at all in the first place? Her only defining characteristics are that she is shiny and has a few more lines than the average stormtrooper.

That.

And she has lowered the shields of the base....

Epic fail.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

The larger question is why do you care about Phasma at all in the first place? Her only defining characteristics are that she is shiny and has a few more lines than the average stormtrooper.

26 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

That.

And she has lowered the shields of the base....

Epic fail.

Are you guys this dense, or what?

I told you why. Because both the Imperial and FO factions suffer from a lack of crew upgrades, or named characters, and I don't think there is ANY excuse for not including everyone they possibly could, ESPECIALLY when other, much less useful, or important characters are featured in the game.

The reason why I want her, is because we need her.

Like I said it before.

There doesn't seem to be an opposition about other characters, who are much worse.

I feel like I explained that before.

But sure, just bring up the same point AGAIN, I'm sure if you say it a few more times everyone will agree with you.

"But she lowered the shields omg omg"

Well... Vader killed the Emperor. Checkmate.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

The larger question is why do you care about Phasma at all in the first place? Her only defining characteristics are that she is shiny and has a few more lines than the average stormtrooper.

I think mainly because she was hyped up to be this super bad-a** character and they failed to deliver in the movies themselves.

For example she took on Finn and (whatever the heck her name is I don't care) at the same time only succumbing to a surprise attack, so it clearly shows she is a formidable opponent. Basically there's potential for the character to be really cool and translate that over to the game.

3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Are you guys this dense, or what?

I told you why. Because both the Imperial and FO factions suffer from a lack of crew upgrades, or named characters, and I don't think there is ANY excuse for not including everyone they possibly could, ESPECIALLY when other, much less useful, or important characters are featured in the game.

The reason why I want her, is because we need her.

Like I said it before.

There doesn't seem to be an opposition about other characters, who are much worse.

I feel like I explained that before.

But sure, just bring up the same point AGAIN, I'm sure if you say it a few more times everyone will agree with you.

"But she lowered the shields omg omg"

Well... Vader killed the Emperor. Checkmate.

Fine, but why include a useless, boring stormtrooper in a dogfighting game? As an Imperial player, who may or may-not stick with the FO going forward, I would love more Imperial Only crew. That said, I'd much rather have great generic crew that fit in the game than the non-character that is Phasma. The Imperial Navy fields a huge number of support personnel. Lets get more of them to the table so we can show those rebel terrorists what a properly run military organization can do.

4 hours ago, Schu81 said:

Phasma ability

When defending, you may lower the shields of all the ships in your Squad.

Then you may ignore the current attack and flee the battlefield.

This would be very thematic and represent her "greatest" deed in the movies ever

Don't blame me. I didn't write the script.

Why don't we work with that!

Phasma ability

Once per round, When defending, you may spend a shield to cancel all attack dice

OR

When defending, you may spend all remaining shields to ignore all attacks for the round and receive a weapons disabled token.

2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Fine, but why include a useless, boring stormtrooper in a dogfighting game? As an Imperial player, who may or may-not stick with the FO going forward, I would love more Imperial Only crew. That said, I'd much rather have great generic crew that fit in the game than the non-character that is Phasma. The Imperial Navy fields a huge number of support personnel. Lets get more of them to the table so we can show those rebel terrorists what a properly run military organization can do.

If you don’t want to take a card because it’s based on a named supporting character from two Star Wars movies that you don’t like, that’s your choice. Yes, there is an element of the faceless masses in both Empire and First Order and I like that too and we should have great generic options. But like any organisation there are ‘heroes’. One of them is not represented in the game. Instead FFG have made up stuff - such as Quickdraw or Omega Leader. There’s nothing wrong with that if there isn’t canon to refer to. But there is and now with the conversion kits they have a chance to put Phasma in.

Plus still hopeful for chrome Defender.

3 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

If you don’t want to take a card because it’s based on a named supporting character from two Star Wars movies that you don’t like, that’s your choice. Yes, there is an element of the faceless masses in both Empire and First Order and I like that too and we should have great generic options. But like any organisation there are ‘heroes’. One of them is not represented in the game. Instead FFG have made up stuff - such as Quickdraw or Omega Leader. There’s nothing wrong with that if there isn’t canon to refer to. But there is and now with the conversion kits they have a chance to put Phasma in.

Plus still hopeful for chrome Defender.

She belongs in Destiny though, not X-Wing. Kenobi is a much more important character in the movies, yet he isn't a card in the game. My personal dislike for the "character" aside, she has no relevance to a game of starfighters. I won't throw a fit if she is included, I just find it odd that people want a character so unrelated to the game to be included.

7 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The larger question is why do you care about Phasma at all in the first place? Her only defining characteristics are that she is shiny and has a few more lines than the average stormtrooper.

Well, to be fair she is in the book 'Before the Awakening', she is seen in the Poe Dameron comics, and there's an entire book and a comic book mini-series about her that explore the character. She will also be part of the new animated series 'Resistance'. So wondering why someone would care about Phasma solely based on the movies would be like wondering why someone would care about Bossk, or Dengar, or any other bounty hunter that just stand there in the Executor, or Wulf Yularen, or Tagge, or pretty much every other imperial officers...

The character is interesting. She is rutheless and is in charge of training the First Order Stormtroopers and turning them into obediant killing machine. She is flawed in the sense that while she shows and ask for a blind loyalty to the First Order, in reality, she only cares about herself, as can be shown in Episode 7 when she lowered the shields to save her skin. She then goes on a hunt to kill everyone that could expose her and frame someone else for the act (as shown in the comics miniserie that is quite interesting). She really doesn't care about anybody but herself.

As for why it would be interesting to see her in X-Wing. Well, first of all she is seen in a Tie/SF in the gunner position in the comic book, so there is a presedent of her actually being in starfighter. Even if she didn't, they have introduced the Deathtroopers as crew for the Empire, or Baze Malbus for the Rebels, so there is also a precedent of including ground troops that technically would do nothing in a spaceship in the game. Even 3PO actually do nothing in a starfighter but is still in the game... Finally, well the First Order will be a separate faction in V2, so they will be pretty short on named crew members with currently only Kylo Ren an General Hux. Introducing a third one would not be seen as a luxury.

5 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Are you guys this dense, or what?

Well, you know how much people love to hate on the sequel trilogy and everything included in it... I heard all the cool kids were doing it...

17 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Finally, well the First Order will be a separate faction in V2, so they will be pretty short on named crew members with currently only Kylo Ren an General Hux. Introducing a third one would not be seen as a luxury.

This, regardless how you feel, res and fo need LOTS of adds to meet the other 3. I expect a flood of those factions once they get rolling.

6 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Kenobi  is a much more important character in the movies, yet he isn't a card in the game  .   

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

On 6/29/2018 at 4:47 PM, Red Castle said:

Meanwhile, the Empire sends only a couple of Tie to defend the Death Star in Episode 4 and that’s okay? Or did it also ruined the inmersion for you?

1) Tarkin had total confidence in the ability of the Death Star's defensive systems to defeat the attack by the rebels. He didn't feel scrambling fighters was at all necessary. Tarkin's weakness was arrogance and overconfidence.

2) Vader recognized the danger and scrambled his squadron because Tarkin couldn't be bothered to do so.

3) There were more fighters on both sides at the battle than the screen could contain for the time. Later CGI tried to close the gap, but still there were more than the screen showed.

4) The OT films were great and told the story in a fairly consistent manner FOR THE TIME! The late 70's and 80's is where they invented cinematic techniques that are still in use today and even refined. If you watch other science fiction films from around that time period, you will see that Star Wars has some problems by today's standards, but holds up really well.

On 6/30/2018 at 3:41 PM, Commander Kaine said:

Every achievement of the OT heroes is systematically erased. I fully blame J.J. for that,

Hey! I resent that remark! I honestly had nothing to do with it! ?

26 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Hey! I resent that remark! I honestly had nothing to do with it! ?

No, No, No! He is talking about Jar Jar Abrams...

1 hour ago, Woobyluv said:

1) Tarkin had total confidence in the ability of the Death Star's defensive systems to defeat the attack by the rebels. He didn't feel scrambling fighters was at all necessary. Tarkin's weakness was arrogance and overconfidence.

2) Vader recognized the danger and scrambled his squadron because Tarkin couldn't be bothered to do so.

3) There were more fighters on both sides at the battle than the screen could contain for the time. Later CGI tried to close the gap, but still there were more than the screen showed.

4) The OT films were great and told the story in a fairly consistent manner FOR THE TIME! The late 70's and 80's is where they invented cinematic techniques that are still in use today and even refined. If you watch other science fiction films from around that time period, you will see that Star Wars has some problems by today's standards, but holds up really well.

Well, I would say that General Hux had total confidence in the ability of the Dreadnought defensive systems to defeat the attack of a lone X-Wing. As can be shown by the quotes ''Captain Canady, why aren't you blasting that puny ship?''(implying that he think the turrets should be able to blast the x-wing) and ''He'll never penetrate our armor.'' (implying that even if he can't destroy it, the x-wing can actually do nothing against the dreadnought). He didn't feel scrambling fighters was at all necessary until a real threat would be coming (the fighters are out and ready when it is time to intercept the bombers). Maybe General Hux weakness was arrogance and overconfidence.

Vader recognized the danger and scrambled his squadron once the attack was already launched, just like General Hux recognized the danger and scrambled his squadrons once he realised that the lone X-Wing was aiming for the turrets and not to destroy the ship. They actually come pretty close to stop Poe, with the weapon failure. But it's hard to be a villain against a movie hero.

And Tarkin couldn't be bothered to do so? What was he doing that he could not be bothered to do so? He was looking at a timer. He was not coordinating a big and complicated strike against the rebel base, he was looking at a timer and waiting to say 'fire'. When his officer comes and tell him that after analyzing the attack there is a real danger, he literally do nothing about it. Nothing at all. He just don't care. Because he's too busy looking at a timer? But that's okay, because he's arrogant and overconfident.

And what about the blockade over Hoth? Would you say that Admiral Piett is an incompetent? There is absolutely zero squadron ready to intercept by the time the transports comes out. None at all. The order is to let no ship pass by, and yet he launch absolutely zero squadron. So every transports, every x-wing just move pass the ''blocade'' while showing the finger.

Speaking of The Empire Strike Back (still my favorite episode by the way), what is the actual achievement of the Empire? All the rebels escape from Hoth to reorganise. They fail to capture the Falcon. They even have to hire bounty hunters to find it because they can't do it themselves. They fail to capture Luke (the big masterplan). Leia and Chewie still escape Bespin. They take Bespin (a mining company), but gives the general that will lead the attack on the second Death Star to the alliance. They put Han in carbonite I guess.... hurray, what a victory! That's what I call 'striking back'!

Meanwhile, in The Last Jedi, the First Order actually gets pretty close to destroying the entire Resistance, safe for some survivors that can fit in a light freighter and those that were out when D'Qar was attacked. They destroy pretty much all the Resistance fleet. The Resistance now have to build up from scratch. And if it was not for Kylo Ren obsession with Luke, they would have actually annihilate the Resistance on Crait.

Now, if I was to judge based on those two movies, I would say that the First Order actually gets more results than the Empire.

3 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Well, I would say that General Hux had total confidence in the ability of the Dreadnought defensive systems to defeat the attack of a lone X-Wing. As can be shown by the quotes ''Captain Canady, why aren't you blasting that puny ship?''(implying that he think the turrets should be able to blast the x-wing) and ''He'll never penetrate our armor.'' (implying that even if he can't destroy it, the x-wing can actually do nothing against the dreadnought). He didn't feel scrambling fighters was at all necessary until a real threat would be coming (the fighters are out and ready when it is time to intercept the bombers). Maybe General Hux weakness was arrogance and overconfidence.

Vader recognized the danger and scrambled his squadron once the attack was already launched, just like General Hux recognized the danger and scrambled his squadrons once he realised that the lone X-Wing was aiming for the turrets and not to destroy the ship. They actually come pretty close to stop Poe, with the weapon failure. But it's hard to be a villain against a movie hero.

And Tarkin couldn't be bothered to do so? What was he doing that he could not be bothered to do so? He was looking at a timer. He was not coordinating a big and complicated strike against the rebel base, he was looking at a timer and waiting to say 'fire'. When his officer comes and tell him that after analyzing the attack there is a real danger, he literally do nothing about it. Nothing at all. He just don't care. Because he's too busy looking at a timer? But that's okay, because he's arrogant and overconfident.

And what about the blockade over Hoth? Would you say that Admiral Piett is an incompetent? There is absolutely zero squadron ready to intercept by the time the transports comes out. None at all. The order is to let no ship pass by, and yet he launch absolutely zero squadron. So every transports, every x-wing just move pass the ''blocade'' while showing the finger.

Speaking of The Empire Strike Back (still my favorite episode by the way), what is the actual achievement of the Empire? All the rebels escape from Hoth to reorganise. They fail to capture the Falcon. They even have to hire bounty hunters to find it because they can't do it themselves. They fail to capture Luke (the big masterplan). Leia and Chewie still escape Bespin. They take Bespin (a mining company), but gives the general that will lead the attack on the second Death Star to the alliance. They put Han in carbonite I guess.... hurray, what a victory! That's what I call 'striking back'!

Meanwhile, in The Last Jedi, the First Order actually gets pretty close to destroying the entire Resistance, safe for some survivors that can fit in a light freighter and those that were out when D'Qar was attacked. They destroy pretty much all the Resistance fleet. The Resistance now have to build up from scratch. And if it was not for Kylo Ren obsession with Luke, they would have actually annihilate the Resistance on Crait.

Now, if I was to judge based on those two movies, I would say that the First Order actually gets more results than the Empire.

But... nostalgia.. ?

9 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But... nostalgia.. ?

Man... if the OT were released today....

12 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Vader recognized the danger and scrambled his squadron once the attack was already launched, just like General Hux recognized the danger and scrambled his squadrons once he realised that the lone X-Wing was aiming for the turrets and not to destroy the ship. They actually come pretty close to stop Poe, with the weapon failure. But it's hard to be a villain against a movie hero.

And what about the blockade over Hoth? Would you say that Admiral Piett is an incompetent? There is absolutely zero squadron ready to intercept by the time the transports comes out. None at all. The order is to let no ship pass by, and yet he launch absolutely zero squadron. So every transports, every x-wing just move pass the ''blocade'' while showing the finger.

Speaking of The Empire Strike Back (still my favorite episode by the way), what is the actual achievement of the Empire? All the rebels escape from Hoth to reorganise. They fail to capture the Falcon. They even have to hire bounty hunters to find it because they can't do it themselves. They fail to capture Luke (the big masterplan). Leia and Chewie still escape Bespin. They take Bespin (a mining company), but gives the general that will lead the attack on the second Death Star to the alliance. They put Han in carbonite I guess.... hurray, what a victory! That's what I call 'striking back'!

Meanwhile, in The Last Jedi, the First Order actually gets pretty close to destroying the entire Resistance, safe for some survivors that can fit in a light freighter and those that were out when D'Qar was attacked. They destroy pretty much all the Resistance fleet. The Resistance now have to build up from scratch. And if it was not for Kylo Ren obsession with Luke, they would have actually annihilate the Resistance on Crait.

Now, if I was to judge based on those two movies, I would say that the First Order actually gets more results than the Empire.

1) Vader wasn't the commander of the station, at least officially. It wasn't his place to go over Tarkin's head until it became clear that Tarkin's plan was ineffective.

2) How do you know fighters weren't scrambled over Hoth? They still used models in those days of cinema. Video games over the years depicted TIE's in the battlespace. Piett did as he was told, he deployed the fleet to cut off escape from the system. Even with a giant fleet there are going to be gaps that savvy rebels can analyze and exploit. How do you know they ALL got away? All we ever hear in the movies is that the FIRST transport got away. Strategically speaking the Empire scored a crushing victory at Hoth. Forcing your enemy to flee the field and surrender their land to you is huge. Forcing the Alliance to expend very limited resources just to survive is a huge success. Did they meet all their operational goals in the campaign? No. Yet they still scored a resounding victory. On the flip side, the rebels lost the battle yet managed to live to fight another day, a victory in its own right.

3) The complete destruction of the New Republic and its Fleet was absolute crap, with the way it was done. Destroying the Resistance fleet was absolute crap, the way it was done. Everything about the situations in the sequel films was constructed on pillars of faulty logic in every way. I really don't want to get into the details, there are so many. I suggest some youtube critiques.

4) So, the First Order gets more done than the Empire? They are standing on the shoulders of giants. Everything the FO did was possible because the Empire did it first. The FO being as big and nasty as it is, is pure BS anyway. Where did they get the funds, infrastructure, personnel, control system in place to even rise? The Empire was born and grew from the remains of the Republic. Everything was in place for it to build up. Palps took decades to put it all in place. Even with Snoke's great Force abilities, which we know nothing about how or where he came from, by the way, that doesn't explain how he could build a force bigger than the Empire in such a short time period and with only a fraction of the economic/industrial capacity. I stand by my position that the entire story of the sequel movies is built on pillars of crap.