Confused by Fury Plot's text - is this a triggered effect?

If so, are there other notable examples of a triggered effect that does not have the "Response: ..." template?

Perhaps you question is answered here ?

Dr.Cornelius said:

In answer to this, BTW: be careful with this not to assume that "Response:..." effects are the only triggered effects. "Any Phase:...", "Marshalling:...", etc are all triggered effects.

The primary indicator of a triggered effect tends to be those bold timing words at the beginning of an effect because they indicate that it is the choice of the player to initiate it or not. If something, like the Fury plots, initiates when certain conditions are met and the controller can't say "no, I don't want that to happen now," it is passive.

So as a practical matter, To Be A Kraken can cancel the vast majority of events and character abilities - i.e. those with the template Response:, Any Phase: or (Phase):.

Are there any other types of effects other than Triggered and Passive ?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To Be A Kraken
House Greyjoy only.
Play only if you have at least 1 Military Battle plot card in your used pile.
Response: Stand a character you control to cancel a triggered effect.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

One more question - is a player's current revealed plot considered to be in the used pile?

Dr.Cornelius said:

1. Yes, there are constant effects too. Their text is active since they're in play/revealed. The Power of Blood is a good example of constant effect .

2. No, your current plot is not in your used pile.

Dr.Cornelius said:

Don't forget that plot cards move from the revealed pile to the used pile at the end of each round.

Rogue30 said:

That's not true. Plot cards move from the revealed pile to the used pile when a new plot card is revealed.

eloooooooi said:

Yes, plot cards move from the revealed pile to the used pile when a new plot card is revealed (pretty obvious), and also at the end of each round. That's why I wrote "don't forget".

Are you telling me that revealed plots move to the used pile automatically at the end of each round?

eloooooooi said:

Yep FAQ page 6 (2.3) Plot States

Dr.Cornelius said:

eloooooooi is correct that there are also constant effects in addition to passive and triggered effects. Those three types of effects are the de facto effect categories listed in the FAQ.

There is, however, a fourth type of effect that is often overlooked, largely because it is more the result of one of the other three than it is an effect it its own right. There are also lasting effects . These effects are usually created by a triggered or passive effect and then don't stop until after a set duration. For example, if an event card says "Challenges: choose a character. That character gets +2 STR until the end of the phase," the effect is obviously a triggered effect when the event is played. After the event is resolved, though, the continued application of the +2 STR until the end of the phase - while the event card is in the discard pile - is considered a lasting effect . The practical upshot is that once the event is resolved, I cannot play To Be a Kraken later in the phase to "cancel" the +2 STR and stop its application to the character before the end of its set duration, even though it originally came from a triggered effect.

Most lasting effects tend to look and behave like constant effects during their duration. However, some start looking like passive effects. For example, the Core Set Khal Drogo. His ability puts him into play from your hand after you win a challenge (a triggered effect), but there is also the part that says "at the end of the phase, return him to your hand." Technically, that part is a lasting effect created by the act of putting him into play (for example - if you somehow manage to get Milk of the Poppy onto him before the end of the phase, blanking his text, he will still return to your hand at the end of the phase because the condition returning him to your hand has already been applied to him) and will activate like a passive effect at the end of the phase.

Dr.Cornelius said:

Plots exist in 3 states. The plot deck (hidden from view), the used pile (open information that is effectively a "plot discard pile") and your currently revealed plot. The currently revealed plot is the only one that affects the game, is thus different from the plots in your used pile and therefore not considered to be in your used pile (although almost all players put the currently revealed plot on the top of their used plot pile).

As stated by Rogue30, plots technically move from the revealed state to the used pile at the end of the Taxation phase (end of the round) - unless there is a reason it cannot (for example, because a card effect says that a player cannot reveal a new plot in the next Plot phase) . The practical application - that there is never a revealed plot affecting the game during the pre-plot action window - goes almost completely unnoticed, but there were some situations in the CCG where this was actually a confusing, bad and even counterproductive thing (for example, there was a character that was discarded if your total initiative was 2 or less; the character had a good chance of being discarded at the end of each round since plots in your used pile do not contribute to your total initiative), so it has been almost universally ignored, with the rule of thumb saying "the currently revealed plot stays the currently revealed plot until a new plot is revealed" being adhered to more often than the "at the end of the round, move the revealed plot."

Rogue30 said:

Woah!! I totally missed that one. Sorry Rogue30, you were completely right about that.

eloooooooi said:

Don't worry, I think it's normal in this game

ktom said:

BTW So, how we should play? Usually it doesn't matter, but imagine situation when you have Bobby with 10 power on him and Flame Kissed. Your currently revealed plot is The Power of Blood. At the end of the turn he should die. You can't protect him with another The Power of Blood for the next round.

Rogue30 said:

As you say, it usually doesn't matter. In fact, most of the time, players blow right by it even when it does. However, if push ever came to shove or a ruling was called for in a tournament for a situation where it did matter (nice example, BTW), I think you'd have to follow the "no revealed plot" rule and its implications. It is there in the rules/FAQ, and you can't really pick and choose, even if most of the community tends to in practice.

It might be possible to claim that once revealed, a plot's effects and stats are active until another plot is revealed. This might be based on the fact that since no plots are actually "in play," it is the action of revealing a new plot, not the shift in status from revealed to used pile that "turns off" the revealed plot. This is not really stated in the rules and is somewhat counterintuitive in comparison to the rest of the cards, but it is possible to claim. So it's not like anyone would be particularly wrong to not apply the implications of "no revealed plot" in examples such as the Flame-Kissed/Noble/Power of Blood x 2. I'm not particularly convinced by this argument, though.

ktom said:

Quick example, wrong example It should be someone with STR 2 like Joff or new Sansa, because additional Forever burning won't work in this example.

Rogue30 said:

I just assumed you had The Dragonpit and a card in Shadows out that you didn't bother mentioning.

I always thought that the current plot remains the active plot until you reveal a new plot.

The fact that a plot goes into the used plot at the end of the turn is important for other plots as well (like Fear of Winter).

So I can actually play You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf on Maester Wendamyr in the plot phase and reveal Valar after, even if the opponent had Fear of Winter the previous turn.

Zsa said:

Fear of Winter is lasting effect ("until you reveal a new plot card"), so even though plot is no longer "current", its effect still applies.

ah, well I should learn how to read then

Zsa said:

This is the point of contention.

If the "active plot" and the "currently revealed plot" are the same thing, then moving your plot to the used pile at the end of the round leaves you without an active plot until a new one is revealed in the Plot phase - and this can make a difference to the player action window that comes before plots are revealed.

But if the "active plot" is actually the "last plot you revealed," you would have an active plot in this window - but there wouldn't be much of a reason to have the 3rd plot state to begin with. (And because we have 3 plot states, I personally tend to disfavor the "active plot equals last plot revealed" stance.)

ktom said:

I agree and favor your line of thinking that having the 3 plot states would suggest a no active plot state at the end of the round. Re: this quote about the ccg character. Perhaps that was the intent on that card. Forcing one to have initiative bonus cards in play to keep that character in play.

Stalkingwolf said:

The entry in the FAQ about plots moving to the used pile at the end of the round (instead of always when a new plot was revealed) came out after the character in question (Host of the Bear?), so it's pretty hard to guess intent one way or the other.

ktom said:

I was just starting to ponder whether ktom was a real person or secretly a computer with every fact about AGOT entered into it. However, I just noticed his signature block.

Stalkingwolf said:

Even he made mistakes sometimes;) So I know that he's human being:)