what about inferno squadron or any small 2-4 man unit as operatives?

each model or the whole unit would have special abilities

or, as suggested for a commander choice that comes with squad mates/body guard?

I may not be a fan of the episode 7 or 8, and not planning on seeing 9. but Disney did give us Rebels and Battlefront 2. I really enjoyed the story in BF2 and Shriv was my favorite character in it. even though I don't like to play rebels, I would love to see this guy represented on the battle field with all his......optimism.

@TauntaunScout Mel's miniatures on shapeways is one of the sources for some heads of the correct size to assist in customizing the current Rebel commanders if you're interested in such a modification. Takes a bit more cutting than I like, but I am currently toying with buying a second Leia to convert to either a Rodian or Twi'lek. As it stands, I am planning on painting my non-converted model up as a Pantoran. At least the models aren't made of metal so are easier to cut!

It is my understanding that for a period of time GW separated itself from 40k tournaments, and it is only in the last few years they have begun officially supporting them again. I'd imagine most of the rules restricting particular models were part of the independent tournament circuit, or local tournament packs which often have different rules based on the local perception of what makes a more balanced game. Releasing product that is solely intended for one "kind" of player limits your sales potential, so purposefully excluding characters that have released models from tournament play would be a bad business decision.

@KILODEN I do quite like that idea. The rules are at least currently set up for all models in the unit to have the same statline (wounds/courage), but it could work similar to how a unit with multiple "Heavy weapons" upgrades would interact.

40k's switch to full blown tournament style play in 8th edition is what helped me decide its time to get out.

playing Orks, we never got much love from the creators any way. 8th edition nerfed orks hard, then each codex that came out made that army the strongest up to that point. they are horrible at releases, IMO.

several of my old gaming buddies have also decided that 40k is just not their thing any more as well. maybe im getting to old for these types of games.

I have been very sad of late........

first GW breaks my favorite game......

Then Ruin Johnson ruins the new Star Wars for me.......

now I dropped my ice-cream on the floor.......

I cant go on.

sorry, I went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@TauntaunScout
It is my understanding that for a period of time GW separated itself from 40k tournaments, and it is only in the last few years they have begun officially supporting them again. I'd imagine most of the rules restricting particular models were part of the independent tournament circuit, or local tournament packs which often have different rules based on the local perception of what makes a more balanced game. Releasing product that is solely intended for one "kind" of player limits your sales potential, so purposefully excluding characters that have released models from tournament play would be a bad business decision.
@KILODEN

No that was even seen at grand tournaments and such at Games Day. Local tournaments were... holy cow. I played at GW sanctioned events with GW gift certificates as prizes where TO's allowed homebrew scratch built vehicles... the 90's was different than today, to say the least. GW reps used to give away $10 gift certs to pretty much any TO for any game, to use as prizes. In those days, an army general usually only cost $6 so it was a nice prize.

WEG's D6 miniatures battles rulebook existed from 1991 actually, there were two editions. Though 2nd ed had only one major rules changes, and virtually no aesthetic changes. Same photos on the same pages... At least some of the minis existed from as early as '87 or '88. But unless you went to Gencon a lot or something, "official support" in the 90's looked like benign neglect compared to today. The 1st edition SWMB is really hard to find today though, unless you are hard bitten, it's not worth tracking it down. It does have ever-so-slightly more color photo content regarding painted minis so that's cool.

CCG's and others ban all sorts of things, usually to make you buy new stuff, so it can be a fine sales decision. IA Skirmish tournaments were like that, you had to buy the latest stuff to have the rolling handful of tournament legal scenarios. The "one kind of player" argument seems lopsided. Fine to hurt the "one kind of player" who is focused on cool models or something, but not the "one kind of player" who goes to tournaments and plays every single game to test tournament lists.

But generics don't HAVE to break tournaments. I don't understand why they must necessarily ruin tournaments. If they don't want "Rebel Lieutenant" to imbalance tournaments... write their stats so that they aren't imbalancing... these things aren't mined in an immutable state from the ocean floor. As for immersion in tournaments, I still think Leia vs. Leia or Vader vs. Vader will shoot immersion way faster than Generic vs. Generic. You can pretend it's a training exercise, or that one of the rebel armies are pirates, or that imperials are fighting each other in an internal powergrab, or whatnot. Vader vs Vader? How many Star Trek parallel universe fights before it gets old?

Seems like your concern is "commanders below a certain points value will break the game" and they probably will. But generic commanders aren't guaranteed to cost more or less than some movie characters.

To focus on the positive, I'd really like Chewbacca, because he doesn't have any costume changes. He will work for any visually themed army.

51 minutes ago, KILODEN said:

40k's switch to full blown tournament style play in 8th edition is what helped me decide its time to get out.

But if you played with your buddies why keep up with new editions you don't like? This new tendency to crave doing the same game as everyone else everywhere else diminishes happiness. I still play dead editions or use dead codices cause I have too many armies to update them all for each edition.

1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

But generics don't HAVE to break tournaments. I don't understand why they must necessarily ruin tournaments. If they don't want "Rebel Lieutenant" to imbalance tournaments... write their stats so that they aren't imbalancing... these things aren't mined in an immutable state from the ocean floor. As for immersion in tournaments, I still think Leia vs. Leia or Vader vs. Vader will shoot immersion way faster than Generic vs. Generic. You can pretend it's a training exercise, or that one of the rebel armies are pirates, or that imperials are fighting each other in an internal powergrab, or whatnot. Vader vs Vader? How many Star Trek parallel universe fights before it gets old?

The game is very obviously not designed to allow for an army to contain duplicate commanders with the way Command cards work. While it makes perfect thematic sense for Leia, Luke, Madine, or other named units to be unique, the same cannot be said for "Rebel Lieutenant." This would give two potential origins for the "Rebel Lieutenant" command cards, and require the opponent to remove 2 units to nullify the command cards for that unit. The argument I've seen is to then release new global command cards. If those command cards aren't just functional reprints of the current command cards, and they have some other effect, they may replace the current global command cards in every build, and have to be balanced against every possible build. Currently the points of Vader or Veers is part of the cost of accessing command cards with added effects, these new global cards wouldn't have that cost.

Additionally, from what I can see Leia and Veers are commonly selected due to their relatively lower cost. As I've said before, having a "Rebel Lieutenant" unit that is the same cost or more expensive than Leia would dilute the feeling that Leia is "special" or "heroic," which may cause issues with license approval.

As a counterpoint to your immersion comment, which is more likely to attract new players? Luke, Vader, etc, or Generic Officer #8?

I'm more partial to generic officer #7

he is way cooler than 8, and he comes first numerically.

6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The game is very obviously not designed to allow for an army to contain duplicate commanders with the way Command cards work. While it makes perfect thematic sense for Leia, Luke, Madine, or other named units to be unique, the same cannot be said for "Rebel Lieutenant."

Sure it does. Given the handful of people on the table it would be unusual in a military command structure to have 2 of the same commissioned officer rank running around. May as well make them unique if game balance demands it.

Quote

Additionally, from what I can see Leia and Veers are commonly selected due to their relatively lower cost.

Not necessarily. Generic officers could have a vehicle (or tauntaun!) mount that adds to their cost significantly. I think naming anything as "commonly selected" is tough considering there's only two commanders available for all of two factions. In the longrun does seem like a game where you'll need two characters purely for "insurance" against the death of your general.

Quote

As a counterpoint to your immersion comment, which is more likely to attract new players? Luke, Vader, etc, or Generic Officer #8?

Luke & Vader are already in the boxed set so they are there as newbie bait. More units is a good thing. In a game of mass combat, military officers are going to be needed. They could just end up being Veers, Tarkin, Reiikan, etc. but maybe not.

4 minutes ago, KILODEN said:

I'm more partial to generic officer #7

he is way cooler than 8, and he comes first numerically.

Because seven ate nine.

For me I just hope that we get some commanders that aren't Generals.

On 7/2/2018 at 3:58 PM, Caimheul1313 said:

Yes, and all of them have names. There is already a commando veteran in Star Wars Lore, his name is Crix Madine.

That Imperial Commander? He or she also has a name. The fact that we, who are only given limited glimpses into the greater galaxy don't know it it because we haven't been told.

A truly "generic" commander is supposed to represent any random person in the organization, not the specifically good ones.

This is an unmovable sticking point. Even if someone can make a valid scheme in which a “generic” commander is costed appropriately and so forth...it would be absurd to waste any time and effort on that until they’ve mined all the real content that isn’t yet represented.

No Lando, no Chewbacca, no Emperor, or Madine or Thrawn? No way do we need them burning a second of effort on a no name character until the existing characters are there.

Even if this entire thread weren’t already rendered moot by the designer statements, they’d still have both the Clone Wars/Republic and First Order/New Republic eras; and I can’t see us getting rando bob the stormtrooper captain anytime before we get a droid army, Ewok or Tuskan Raiders armies, or even a Gungan army in full.

56 minutes ago, Derrault said:

This is an unmovable sticking point. Even if someone can make a valid scheme in which a “generic” commander is costed appropriately and so forth...it would be absurd to waste any time and effort on that until they’ve mined all the real content that isn’t yet represented.

No Lando, no Chewbacca, no Emperor, or Madine or Thrawn? No way do we need them burning a second of effort on a no name character until the existing characters are there.

I would buy a generic leader model. I'd never buy a Thrawn. Or the emperor. Or anything from any prequel. Every other SW minis game made generic leaders long before they found time for the likes of Thrawn and they sold just fine. There's many different kinds of consumers out there.

But Rieekan, Piett, et al would be enough for my purposes as well.

17 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I would buy a generic leader model. I'd never buy a Thrawn. Or the emperor. Or anything from any prequel. Every other SW minis game made generic leaders long before they found time for the likes of Thrawn and they sold just fine. There's many different kinds of consumers out there.

But Rieekan, Piett, et al would be enough for my purposes as well.

Sure. The mainstream characters have a much larger fan base. It’s the difference between the number of people who know the characters in Star Wars vs the number who, for example, have heard of any of the primarchs. Any of them.

It just makes sense that the named characters take priority over non characters, they always will.

51 minutes ago, Derrault said:

It just makes sense that the named characters take priority over non characters, they always will.

Especially since that is the best way to keep the license holder happy. Pushing the big names gives those names more visibility, which helps sell other media featuring them. Like Thrawn in Legion? Why not buy a novel about him to learn more about the character! Or vice versa. I for one, love the character of Hondo from the Clone Wars/Rebels and would love to be able to field an army of pirates with him as the commander.

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Sure. The mainstream characters have a much larger fan base. It’s the difference between the number of people who know the characters in Star Wars vs the number who, for example, have heard of any of the primarchs. Any of them.

It just makes sense that the named characters take priority over non characters, they always will.

I would still say that I'm more likely to buy a generic leader than a named character. If no generics are released, I will be buying very few heroes for this game. Like four, tops, not including Luke & Darth. Two for each faction and then be done buying heroes forever.

As for who I think will actually come out next, for the rebels it'll be presumably be one of "The Death Star Seven". For the Empire who knows. There just isn't as much to make hay from on that side of the fence. Generic "disposable" commanders fit the whole Imperial theme though so it could happen.

14 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I would still say that I'm more likely to buy a generic leader than a named character. If no generics are released, I will be buying very few heroes for this game. Like four, tops, not including Luke & Darth. Two for each faction and then be done buying heroes forever.

As for who I think will actually come out next, for the rebels it'll be presumably be one of "The Death Star Seven". For the Empire who knows. There just isn't as much to make hay from on that side of the fence. Generic "disposable" commanders fit the whole Imperial theme though so it could happen.

From the Empire you mean? Ultimately I’d bet on more like Fett, operatives, but not commanders.

7 hours ago, Derrault said:

From the Empire you mean? Ultimately I’d bet on more like Fett, operatives, but not commanders.

Well there's enough Imperial officers out there that it's plausible. From a model collecting standpoint, whatever name or no name, a guy in a cloth uniform, with a little metal button on the center of his cap, is a likely next Imperial commander. Not having at least one, named or not, is a glaring omission from the movies. Speaking of glaring ommissions, here's hoping that they don't skip over Imperial navy and army troops again.

If 100 operatives come out before then next commander, that still isn't speculation about the next commander

1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

Well there's enough Imperial officers out there that it's plausible. From a model collecting standpoint, whatever name or no name, a guy in a cloth uniform, with a little metal button on the center of his cap, is a likely next Imperial commander. Not having at least one, named or not, is a glaring omission from the movies. Speaking of glaring ommissions, here's hoping that they don't skip over Imperial navy and army troops again.

Would be interesting to see Colonel Dyer, with his fatal weakness to thrown toolboxes. ?

6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Would be interesting to see Colonel Dyer, with his fatal weakness to thrown toolboxes. ?

We can't all be Han Solo, shrugging off a box of hydrospanners.

So I've been thinking... Han and Boba are our first asymmetrical releases, with the two factions getting different unit ranks and upgrade cards in a single "wave." Since the developers have said you will not need to buy cross-faction in order to get upgrade cards, we may expect that the next "wave" of announcements will reverse this relationship. Rebels will likely get Chewbacca as an operative (with the 'Hunter' elite upgrade card). Imperials will get a third commander (with the 'Improvised Orders' upgrade card). Although upgrade cards don't always have to match theme, it seems like they have made a certain amount of thematic sense so far... so what potential Imperial commander would be consistent with 'Improvised Orders?'

2 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

what potential Imperial commander would be consistent with 'Improvised Orders?'

That is a very good question... I suppose it could be used for Thrawn. Wullf Yularen would probably work as well.

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:34 PM, Caimheul1313 said:

Especially since that is the best way to keep the license holder happy. Pushing the big names gives those names more visibility, which helps sell other media featuring them. Like Thrawn in Legion? Why not buy a novel about him to learn more about the character! Or vice versa. I for one, love the character of Hondo from the Clone Wars/Rebels and would love to be able to field an army of pirates with him as the commander.

Why buy a novel about Thrawn?

how about because the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy are the best star wars novels ever!!!!!

the stories in there are even better than the OT in my opinion. Zahn should have been hired on as the creative mind behind the new cannon. you can tell he plays to the heart of star wars in his writings and when I read these books, doesn't matter how many times, I cant put them down.

If Hux had been written better in the last jedi, more like a Thrawn or Tarkin esque character. he would have been more believable as a leader instead of a punk.

When I saw Thrawn was going to be in rebels, I was like, NOOOOOOO! they are going to ruin him. but they actually did him justice. I loved the Rebels series, other than the first few episodes of comically incompetent storm troopers, it really picked up steam and got really good. the characters were well developed as well. would love to see most, if not all of them make it into this game. **** the Phoenix squadron set would make a great operatives squad. like @Caimheul1313 suggested before. you have a core leader and then purchase the rest of the squad as upgrade cards. Hera and chopper are the base unit. then you can add the others as you wish. I think that would be cool. then do the same for inferno squadron. Krenik and the death troopers.

1 hour ago, KILODEN said:

Why buy a novel about Thrawn?

how about because the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy are the best star wars novels ever!!!!!

@Caimheul1313

Going into debating the artistic merits of the various fictional works is usually how off-topic uncivility begins.

I would love to see a generic Storm trooper officer and a rebel trooper officer at some point, balance it out by giving you bleh command cards for a cheap value.

On 6/29/2018 at 8:13 PM, Ex Officio said:

Stand by, Ion Control... FIRE!

Toryn Farr!

Since my reply was hidden for several days awaiting approvel by an administrator and got lost I‘d like to repeat and stress it here again!

What about Toryn Farr?