What do people think about the water province? "When this is broken, move a defending character home."

Seems like its best application is in an aggro deck that's looking to apply maximum pressure. When it's broken, you get to counterattack? I suppose the other water provinces are mostly defensive, so having an aggressive one is a decent option. Just feels like a pretty underwhelming effect for having your province broken.

10 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

What do people think about the water province? "When this is broken, move a defending character home."

Seems like its best application is in an aggro deck that's looking to apply maximum pressure. When it's broken, you get to counterattack? I suppose the other water provinces are mostly defensive, so having an aggressive one is a decent option. Just feels like a pretty underwhelming effect for having your province broken.

I think it's all kinds of bad. I get that FFG was going for something that allows you to put up a heavy defense and try to get your opponent to waste a bunch of cards to break it and then you can eject someone and go on the counterattack, but, it's just going to end up being a blank province that gets farmed. "Oh you defend, I'll do just enough to win without breaking............oh you overcommit to prevent me from winning, sure bow more important stuff than me...............oh I take it unopposed and nothing happens, how'd that work out..........." I'm trying to come up with a practical scenario where I want this province and I just can't think of one.

Maybe I'm missing something, or I'm just in a "glass is half empty" kind of mood, but it looks really bad to me.

35 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

Lol I just realized Phoenix can use the lion spell to copy the firebird and become a 6/6. And then use the stronghold to do it again.

Yup

36 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

Lol I just realized Phoenix can use the lion spell to copy the firebird and become a 6/6. And then use the stronghold to do it again.

Shhhhh. Do you hear that sound................?

That is the sound of the rest of the clans, in unison, slowing raising their middle fingers towards you.

1 hour ago, Mangod said:

"I'm on a boat, I'm on a boat
Everybody look at me 'cause I'm sailing on a boat."

"Unicorn 'music' gets more scandalous by the season."

Have a little respect for Naval Cavalry.

It was really painful to those I inflicted it upon....

39 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

Lol I just realized Phoenix can use the lion spell to copy the firebird and become a 6/6. And then use the stronghold to do it again.

Just have to make sure we have a shugenja in play, of course. It's all a carefully crafted system of checks and balances!

(Or it's charge 2.0. Let the Fushicho train continue.)

I hate to be that guy, but while everyone is talking about how FFG will handle the current Mantis Cards once they become a faction, there is no guarantee that they will become a faction, and seeing them as neutrals in this set implies to me that it’s less likely that we’ll see them as one.

Not saying it’s impossible, though. They could make a Mantis stronghold but keep the Mantis cards all neutral so that they can be hired as mercenaries by any clan, which would be nice bit of flavor. But we also have to consider the real possibility that there are no plans for them to get a stronghold (unless I missed an announcement stating otherwise somewhere.)

1 hour ago, AradonTemplar said:

Just have to make sure we have a shugenja in play, of course. It's all a carefully crafted system of checks and balances!

(Or it's charge 2.0. Let the Fushicho train continue.)

Oh man, that's rough. Where are we going to find a cheap shugenja with terrible stats to turn into beast mode by coping Fushicho's stats?

*feels tug at kimono sleeve* Not now Fire Tensai Initiate, I'm thinking!

Am I the only one kind of underwhelmed by Yoritomo? Sure he's huge in games where you're sitting on multiple turn's worth of fate, but I don't think those come up enough to include him just for that. Otherwise, the most common scenario is going to be buying him w/ 2 fate, +1 from passing first, +1 off a ring to give you a Yokuni stat line with no ability that you can't play any conflict cards that cost fate without making it weaker.

Sure if you specifically build your deck around him you could probably get him up to a 6 or 7 pretty consistently, but I don't see him as better than most Clan's existing 5's or even a lot of the better 4's.

Yoritomo can be charged. He can be played by Unicorn with Gaijin Customs. He can be used effectively, especially in decks that can make him participate in multiple conflicts. I feel he is pretty good.

1 hour ago, shineyorkboy said:

Am I the only one kind of underwhelmed by Yoritomo? Sure he's huge in games where you're sitting on multiple turn's worth of fate, but I don't think those come up enough to include him just for that. Otherwise, the most common scenario is going to be buying him w/ 2 fate, +1 from passing first, +1 off a ring to give you a Yokuni stat line with no ability that you can't play any conflict cards that cost fate without making it weaker.

Sure if you specifically build your deck around him you could probably get him up to a 6 or 7 pretty consistently, but I don't see him as better than most Clan's existing 5's or even a lot of the better 4's.

Mantis theme is supposed to be resources manipulation: getting more Fate should be there.

Also, you got a 3/3 when you buy him, but Yoritomo starts the next turn being a 10/10, and then it depends on you and how much fate you spend.

Or you can Charge! him for an instant monster. In Crab, if you can keep it around enough, he can grow to beast levels very quickly.

7 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

I hate to be that guy, but while everyone is talking about how FFG will handle the current Mantis Cards once they become a faction, there is no guarantee that they will become a faction, and seeing them as neutrals in this set implies to me that it’s less likely that we’ll see them as one.

Not saying it’s impossible, though. They could make a Mantis stronghold but keep the Mantis cards all neutral so that they can be hired as mercenaries by any clan, which would be nice bit of flavor. But we also have to consider the real possibility that there are no plans for them to get a stronghold (unless I missed an announcement stating otherwise somewhere.)

More and more, I really love this thought. Build it up as a powerful neutral threat until L5R 2E with a eight or nine clan format, similar to AGOT expanding from 1E to 2E.

They managed to turn Yoritomo's Alliance into the Mantis clan as on of the Great Clans in the CCG, I am pretty sure that FFG can (and will) accomplish something similar. But it takes time. You cannot expect the story to make leaps so that we will be on the same level after 2 years that we had been at the end of the CCG (and please, almighty Kami, let pirates riding on dinosaurs never happen again!).

I disappointed with this yoritomo. I understand they couldn't make him to powerful as a nurtal character as they didn't want him to be an auto induclude in every deck but I am having trouble even justifying playing him at the moment.

I think a better but simular card design would have been for him to have the ability "yoritomo gains mil and pol equal to the number of fate on him. Reaction: after you gain fate out side of the fate phase, place that fate on yoritomo instead (max 2 per turn)" this way you are using the extra economy that mantis is seeming to give to boost him in play and it gives him some syngy with other clans meaning me might see play. It fits into his character of manifesting his own destiny as opposed to everyone else's set destiny. I would probably also make him 4 mil 4 pol so he isn't totally wrecked by cloud the mind.

4 minutes ago, Jamadman said:

I disappointed with this yoritomo. I understand they couldn't make him to powerful as a nurtal character as they didn't want him to be an auto induclude in every deck but I am having trouble even justifying playing him at the moment.

I think a better but simular card design would have been for him to have the ability "yoritomo gains mil and pol equal to the number of fate on him. Reaction: after you gain fate out side of the fate phase, place that fate on yoritomo instead (max 2 per turn)" this way you are using the extra economy that mantis is seeming to give to boost him in play and it gives him some syngy with other clans meaning me might see play. It fits into his character of manifesting his own destiny as opposed to everyone else's set destiny. I would probably also make him 4 mil 4 pol so he isn't totally wrecked by cloud the mind.

The issue there is you are making him potentially an eternal character who will rival Crab for his ability to stay in play for the entire game.

10 hours ago, ichaos1985 said:

They managed to turn Yoritomo's Alliance into the Mantis clan as on of the Great Clans in the CCG, I am pretty sure that FFG can (and will) accomplish something similar. But it takes time. You cannot expect the story to make leaps so that we will be on the same level after 2 years that we had been at the end of the CCG (and please, almighty Kami, let pirates riding on dinosaurs never happen again!).

Hey respect the Orochi Riders they were an important part of our military

30 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

The issue there is you are making him potentially an eternal character who will rival Crab for his ability to stay in play for the entire game.

I did try and thing of ways around that, but ultimately I think that if you are actively trying to active that then you are hurting your own economy by not having the fate in your pool and are more than likely making sub par plays to just keep him in play.

2 minutes ago, Jamadman said:

I did try and thing of ways around that, but ultimately I think that if you are actively trying to active that then you are hurting your own economy by not having the fate in your pool and are more than likely making sub par plays to just keep him in play.

Not really an issue as combo'd with Embrace the Void he is would never die

2 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Not really an issue as combo'd with Embrace the Void he is would never die

Doesn't that trigger in the fate phase or am I getting my sequences mixed up?

1 minute ago, Jamadman said:

Doesn't that trigger in the fate phase or am I getting my sequences mixed up?

It does but since you collect fate for the turn during the Dynasty Phase you put the one on him at the start of the turn and then send it back to your pool for the next turn during the fate phase with Embrace so you aren't actually hurting your economy that much (you take a slight hit the turn you start the combo but then its all good from there)

I like him so far. Not an auto include, but I can see him making room in Crab, Phoenix and Scorpion. They are the clans I usually see racking up huge fate pools. He is better midgame than late. Charge defensively and combine him with drop bear.

Hmm, I wonder how well he will do in Lion as a one copy of. Only fake him into play with Charge, Spiritcaller, and Ujiaki.

4 minutes ago, Jamadman said:

Doesn't that trigger in the fate phase or am I getting my sequences mixed up?

Embrace the Void can trigger any time a character loses fate, though it can only be used once per turn. With two copies of EtV he would be fairly hard to remove from play.

Interrupt: When 1 or more fate would be removed from attached character – instead, move that fate to your fate pool.

Just noticed Fight On, too. Seems good, nice little tempo burst. Water role only, so I doubt we'll see Crab going water any time soon, but maybe someday. Wish I know how much influence it cost. Would be a good splash for any tall deck.

Alright! I just heard about how the Mantis are finally getting a strong, long-anticipated character! Now we're finally going to...<sees spoiler image> Oh. It's just some guy equipped to harvest rice twice as quickly as lesser men. <yawn> Call me when yumi are involved.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

Alright! I just heard about how the Mantis are finally getting a strong, long-anticipated character! Now we're finally going to...<sees spoiler image> Oh. It's just some guy equipped to harvest rice twice as quickly as lesser men. <yawn> Call me when yumi are involved.

He is his twenty best rice harvesting men.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Alright! I just heard about how the Mantis are finally getting a strong, long-anticipated character! Now we're finally going to...<sees spoiler image> Oh. It's just some guy equipped to harvest rice twice as quickly as lesser men. <yawn> Call me when yumi are involved.

I see you haven't met my family yet? Meet the Kaito...