1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Another thought I'd been having: how would Mara Jade be on a Reaper? In my experience, they seem to get stuck-in pretty quick. Fly into Range 2 to Jam, then your higher-PS opponents move forward into Range 1. At which point, Mara Jade goes to work. I might have to try it out sometime, although it seems hard to give up ISB Agent or Director Krennic...

You could always put zee Director in another ship. A phantom perhaps?

I would think captive is still better simply because of how often you see expertise, making them want to shoot the Reaper and also not want to. Psychology is always fun!

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Another thought I'd been having: how would Mara Jade be on a Reaper? In my experience, they seem to get stuck-in pretty quick. Fly into Range 2 to Jam, then your higher-PS opponents move forward into Range 1. At which point, Mara Jade goes to work. I might have to try it out sometime, although it seems hard to give up ISB Agent or Director Krennic...

Its awesome:

Tested Vermeil against the 7 Z swarm (xwing was being proxy'd for a Z). No shots against me next turn, all thanks to Mara Jade.

played my SBP reaper/juke ryad/inqy this weekend at SC. went 1 & 3. Tried OP on inqy (that extra shield was a life saver!) and also on Ryad. Slicers are awesome. BUT...with the competitive meta being the way it is right now (Bombs,turrets, high PS) my poor defender had to constantly fight for her life. And a 1 agility ship (even with LWF, which was on fire!) can only last so long. And we all know that one blank out with inquisitor can spell his doom. Soooo....I'm thinking of upgrading the list a bit with this:

Major Vermeil (26)
Adaptability (0)
Director Krennic (5)
ISB Slicer (2)
Advanced Ailerons (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Darth Vader (29)
Juke (2)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm stuck though on a few things. Should I swap out Inqy with ASTS Omega Leader, then throw Cruise on Vader, LWF on Reaper and go 98points? Orrr...is Inquisitor better.

My biggest setback this weekend was passive mods. It seemed like EVERY list I played had some sort of passive mod or automatic this or that. I found my list relying WAY too much on variance and luck. Not a good feeling when you position yourself perfectly and then whiff out.

Thoughts and Critique's are appreciated!

On 7/16/2018 at 6:12 PM, Malabor said:

T  houghts  and Critique's are appreciated   !       

I‘m obviously biased, but I play that list with 2x VI on both vader and vermeil

I think it‘s worth more than juke, and I LOVE juke on vader!

other than that the list is solid, but requires some experience which I do not yet have. Vermeil is not that easy because decisions actually matter. And you can‘t park him at R1 of everyone either, or he melts too fast. Then the question of the OP. I think vader is better most of the time. Exceptions are turret heavy lists, where inq is more valuable with AT.

16 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I‘m obviously biased, but I play that list with 2x VI on both vader and vermeil

I think it‘s worth more than juke, and I LOVE juke on vader!

other than that the list is solid, but requires some experience which I do not yet have. Vermeil is not that easy because decisions actually matter. And you can‘t park him at R1 of everyone either, or he melts too fast. Then the question of the OP. I think vader is better most of the time. Exceptions are turret heavy lists, where inq is more valuable with AT.

i'm doing some testing tonight, but the list is evolving into something like this:

Major Vermeil (26)
Adaptability (0)
Director Krennic (5)
Mara Jade (3)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Advanced Ailerons (0)

"Omega Leader" (21)
A Score to Settle (0)
Comm Relay (3)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Not 100% on Mara yet. I still may go with ISB Slicers because double jamming is pretty good. But then again, so is stress...

If not Mara, I may put slicers back on and put VI on Vermeil.

24 minutes ago, Malabor said:

b  ut   the list is evolving into something like this: 

Two thoughts:

1. I also like ISB to reach a ship with jam that‘s kept out of range. And I would first take rebel captive before Mara. Similar or possibly worde net effect but huge psychological difference!

2. I would prefer Juke on OL over Cruise on Vader. That allows you to actually use the stored evade of comm relay, and you can still focus which means ASTS doesn‘t gain you much. And I say that as someone who puts cruise on Vader/Inq all the time!

15 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Two thoughts:

1. I also like ISB to reach a ship with jam that‘s kept out of range. And I would first take rebel captive before Mara. Similar or possibly worde net effect but huge psychological difference!

2. I would prefer Juke on OL over Cruise on Vader. That allows you to actually use the stored evade of comm relay, and you can still focus which means ASTS doesn‘t gain you much. And I say that as someone who puts cruise on Vader/Inq all the time!

Hmm...It's a tough call. Having just recently learned that Slicers allows a you to double jam the same ship...I may stick with those guys. Rebel Captive was my third choice. I feel ( on paper anyway) that all three are good choices. Dropping back to Slicers would also allow me to put VI on Vermeil instead of adaptability OR Multispectral Camo on OL, which could be nifty.

Juke on OL is good, that's for sure. REALLY good. ASTS was my choice for the tokenless mod. Spending this passed weekend being Wes Janson stripped, Jammed, and HotCop'd to death was really no fun. I'm looking for the list that can capitalize on some tokenless efficiency. ASTS on OL does that for me (plus it's free and only works in my favor).

Is my logic sound or am I crazy here?

1 hour ago, Malabor said:

Is my logic sound or am I crazy here?

I think your logic is valid but maybe not entirely sound. One missing premise is that ASTS only works against 1 ship, and 3+ ship lists are on the rise again - at least anecdotally. But I find myself agreeing more with you after writing all of this.

Using ASTS for tokenless mods presumes that you are going to be jammed, Wes strips a token, Fenn prevents you from spending a token, Hotcop removes a focus, or you are stressed. I think those five scenarios are the relevant ones, and all are relatively similar.

I make the following assumptions: First, you prefer Juke in most other matchups. Second, the effect of Juke and ASTS is similar enough*. And third, the likely situation for OL is that you have a banked evade, a TL and eventually a focus, too.

Going through the five mentioned scenarios of relevant opponents: Wes will most likely remove the TL, and he's the outstanding one of the five scenarios as he will allow the ship with ADTP to passively mod, too! Jam wants to remove the TL, but you can choose yourself and will probably keep the TL instead of the other tokens. Thus the focus+evade tokens serve as a buffer and protect your TL. Stress has the same effect, whether you use Juke or ASTS, as you can't focus anymore and that's it. Fenn prevents the Juke-OL from spending the focus on offense, but otherwise the effect of Juke or ASTS is similar enough, so not too much of a difference here either. HSCP either forces you to spend the focus on offense (which is not worse than having no focus) or on defense (where you are still as good off when Juke is compared to ASTS).

I see the positive effects of ASTS in these points:

1. Modify your offense, and even get a crit, ...
2. ...while retaining a focus for defense
3. TL protection as explained previously
4. The evade can be spent for defense
5. Stress resistance as your ASTS does not care about it

But comparing them to Juke shows us that most these points remain! You improve your offense, and while your variation is slightly worse, the net result is as good or even slightly better. You can keep the focus exactly as much for defense as with ASTS. The only difference is your discipline as you might be tempted to spend it. The TL is as protected, but here Juke clearly loses if you get double-jammed and have to remove the evade. Similarly the next point - spending the evade for defense hurts your offense. But the stress is as irrelevant as you can keep the evade once you have it. Finally, Juke can be more frustrating if you don't mod your red dice.

On the flip side, Wes really hurts with your ASTS, and so does a double jam if you can't protect the TL.

All that being said: why don't you change CommRelay for Advanced optics?
The only difference is HSCP, all other situations are identical or even slightly better **(stress)

* we can crunch some numbers to test that assumption:

• Juke-OL without focus, range 2
  • vs agi1: 1hit
  • vs agi2: 0.895 hits
  • vs agi3: 0.75 hits
• Juke-OL with focus range 2
  • vs agi1: 1.5 hits
  • vs agi2: 1.368 hits
  • vs agi3: 1.174 hits
• ASTS-OL range 2
  • vs agi1: 1.086 hits
  • vs agi2: 0.796 hits
  • vs agi3: 0.571 hits

This shows that ASTS is similar to Juke if OL does not spend the focus on offense (scenarios stress and Fenn), but worse if the focus is available for offense.

** for 3 dice, the chance to roll 0 focus or 1 focus is both 42%. So your chance to be as good off or better as an evade is 58%. An evade is more reliable and again the low variation choice.

@GreenDragoon wow...thank you for digging so much into this with me. I didn't even think about Optics on OL! I just always go to that option to help her defense out, plus that upgrade is pretty much stapled to the TIE/FO chassis.

So if I'm running ASTS, I may be better off with Optics for defensive focus, or offensive focus once my opponent's ADTP ship is destroyed. AND I really like the option of having that token to spend if she gets jammed to protect the Target Lock. Not to mention it's a point cheaper, allowing for a deeper bid or I could pop the camo mod on her.

Or actually, now that I look at it, that would allow for me to upgrade the Cruise missiles to Harpoons. with ASTS, firing after Vader, it gives me a good chance to set off the condition. But, man, that makes my Vader fat fat fat!

(I hate Harpoons. I feel like I'm cheating every time I play them...but still, I'm chasing some wins with this squad)

So the other night it popped into my head: Deathrain can spend a die for Krennic, then cancel the remaining single die with Accuracy Corrector and end on 2 hits. I'm sure it's a bad variant on the list, but Deathrain is so much fun. So how could a Deathrain Reaper-list work out? These are the three clearest versions in my mind:

• Deathrain (Accuracy Corrector, Bomblet Generator, Lightweight Frame) 34 + Optimized Prototype
  • I think other Deathrain builds are possible, but this one is probably the only one for an OP/Krennic build. AccC seems too vital to having some semblance of red dice. The pre-move barrel rolls when you drop a bomblet make this one unexpectedly nimble ship, but that might be hard to keep close to a Reaper with Krennic.
  • Also, dropping random bomblets while wanting to stay fairly close together probably leads to more self-immolation than is optimal.
• Combination 1: Fuller Built Reaper/Defender.
  • Scarif Base Pilot (Krennic, ISBS, AA, LWF) is 31 points, and Colonel Vessery (Juke, TIE/x7) is 35. Deathrain attacks first, gets a TL for SBP, which activates Vessery's TL. Kinda stinks to be on the PS 1 Reaper, though.
• Combination 2: Lighter Defender/Reaper
  • Colonel Vessery (A Score to Settle or Trick Shot, TIE/x7) 33; Major Vermiel (Trick Shot, AA, Krennic, and only one of ISB Slicer or LWF) 33. Giving up either LWF or Slicer really weakens Vermiel, but here you'd have MajV's great pilot ability and be all PS 6.
• Combination 3: Full Vermiel + Inquisitor (or really any other third ship)
  • Major Vermiel (Trick Shot, Krennic, ISBS, AA, LWF) 35, The Grand Inquisitor (PTL, TIE/v1, Autothrusters) 31. Bringing Vermiel over PS 6 won't really do much good, since if Deathrain has the OP condition, you want them shooting first, or at least before the Krennic carrier. I guess there could be a different Vermiel elite upgrade, but then there aren't too many points left for a good 3rd ship.
• Oddball:
  • Comander Kenkirk (Push the Limit, Krennic, Ysanne Isard, Engine Upgrade) + 6 points of wiggle. The Isard -> PTL Boost at the start of combat trick is kinda cute, but maybe not perfect with the range requirement on Krennic. Perhaps just Emperor Palpatine--Dauntless, Determination, Krennic, Engine as the other upgrades, and let's say toss a Seismic Torpedo on Deathrain for sh*** and giggles.
  • If we're getting really silly: Captain Oicunn (Daredevil, Krennic, Inspiring Recruit, Gunner [?], Dauntless, Engine Upgrade), which has 4 free points.

I feel like I've forgotten about Quickdraw. They can still pump out damage.

• Quickdraw (VI, FCS, LWF, SOT) 34. Pretty standard. PS 11 with high burst damage potential.
• Countess Ryad (Intensity, TIE/x7) OptProt, 34. I kinda like Intensity Defenders, I feel like getting the Barrel Rolls in goes a long way towards improving their mobility.
• Vizier (ISB Slicer, Krennic, AA, LWF) 32. Vizier seems interesting to me, in that on the approach, you might even be able to pass QD an extra token. Also, being PS 3 just seems nice. Get the shot off before a lot of common ships, as well as be able to react to their position with Ailerons.
  • *edit* Based on thoughts below, Adaptability/AdvOptics is only a point more expensive than VI. Dropping from Vizier to Scarif Base Pilot could get Optics for QD. Not sure if PS 11 is better than a more easily stacked focus token.

Here's another one, based on something a friend of mine flew well (4-0) at a smaller local SC. He used a Harpoon PTL Rho to strong effect, but QD could also be a big damage piece.

• Quickdraw (VI, FCS, LWF, SOT) 34.
• Major Vermiel (VI, Gunner, Krennic, AA, LWF) OptProt, 39. Use Optimized Prototype to spend hits to miss, to trigger Gunner Shots with TLs.
• Scarif Base Pilot (ISB Slizer, AA, LWF) 26. Slicerbot is still solid. There's a free point, so probably add Intelligence Agent. That could help set up blocks and arc dodges with your Ailerons.
  • Wait. Go Adaptability/AdvO on QD instead of VI, and just Courier Droid on the Reaper.

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I  feel like I've forgotten about Quickdraw

Honestly, reapers are an excuse for me to not require QD anymore. Before reapers every imperial list had to include QD. Now it‘s an actual choice!