I have not seen it here on the forums and, I admit, I have not checked out the reddit but has anyone seen a solid system to handle wrestling WWE style? I know that The Wandering Fighter had some submission rules but that does not cover things like maybe some chain wrestling going on or else some aerobatics. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle things like that?

Improvised weapons (folding chair or kendo stick) are easy enough to do. As is impact with a table and the like, but there is still so much left to do like counters and such. I welcome brainstorming or, if someone has done a guide for it to let me know about it.

How much of each session do you want to be focused on fighting in the ring? If it’s most of each session then you probably want to break up combat into as many skills as possible, perhaps as many as 8. This then allows the characters to have real differences between each other. Social combat should also be mixed in to the fighting too.

The majority of it will, indeed, be fighting. I am thinking of making it similar to Lucha Underground. I like the idea of various skills to focus on different things. I may take some cues from the Street Fighter rpg. Thanks for a train of thought to travel down for a possibility.

Another potential solution to keep things simple is to have counters and other similar effects handled by talents and/or just the narrative dice themselves. You could spend threat to simulate the effects of countering. You could also make different talents simulate signature moves, including counters.

Like... Spend 2 strain when hit by an attack to flip the target over your shoulder and knock them prone.

I think it partially depends on how kayfabe you're being. If you're treating it as real, I don't have much to add. However, breaking kayfabe opens up the possibilities. Almost any social skill can be used, in addition to athletics and brawl, because you're effectively rolling against the audience, not your opponent.

Would there be some sort of face/heel dynamic with this as well?

10 hours ago, Talandar said:

I think it partially depends on how kayfabe you're being.

It will be entirely in kayfabe as I intend on it being like Lucha Underground. Wherein they have fantastic storyline elements and the like.

6 hours ago, Chyrondave said:

Would there be some sort of face/heel dynamic with this as well?

I was thinking of using the fan reaction to help the wrestlers out. So the more over you are, then the more of a resource you could draw on. The problem is, I am worried that I would have to do extra bookkeeping. I am not opposed to doing so but trying to avoid it if possible.

I am toying around with the idea to make all combat rolls in a match to be opposed rolls. So when Lucho Grande makes a roll against Terra Drago, he is rolling against Drago's skill and that threats or despairs would be translated as perhaps a reversal or even the move going bad and Drago reverses it entirely on Grande.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Alignment: All wrestlers (along with Managers, etc) has an additional stat called Alignment. The alignments are Face and Heel. This is chosen at character creation. It costs 2XP OR a significant action (Triumph or Despair) to change alignment.

Heat: The measure of how over a wrestler is, Heat is generated by moves that excite the crowd, whether they are positive or negative. When spending Advantage, all Talent gain the option of gaining Heat at a rate of 1-1. If the action is against their alignment, as determined by the table, they have to spend extra advantage. If it is a slight departure, the rate is 2-1. A more serious departure could be 3-1.

Heat can be spent to add boost dice at a rate of 1 die for two Heat. Alternately, they can remove threat dice at the same rate.

Not playtested or thought through very thoroughly, but it seems like it won't affect bookkeeping too much. The main issue I see is it has a real snowball effect, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It definitely needs playtesting to iron out the kinks, though.

On 6/26/2018 at 10:56 PM, thedonnie said:

It will be entirely in kayfabe as I intend on it being like Lucha Underground. Wherein they have fantastic storyline elements and the like.

I was thinking of using the fan reaction to help the wrestlers out. So the more over you are, then the more of a resource you could draw on. The problem is, I am worried that I would have to do extra bookkeeping. I am not opposed to doing so but trying to avoid it if possible.

I am toying around with the idea to make all combat rolls in a match to be opposed rolls. So when Lucho Grande makes a roll against Terra Drago, he is rolling against Drago's skill and that threats or despairs would be translated as perhaps a reversal or even the move going bad and Drago reverses it entirely on Grande.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

That's not a terrible idea. You would just need to change your approach when it comes to designing adversaries. You would also need to flesh out the combat skills a lot more (as suggested above with the different types of move skills). The big difference from going to set difficulties to apposed checks is that combat is going to drastically change in pacing from a normal game, which is not inheritley bad. You'll also find a lot more red dice coming into play than normal, also not necessarily bad. Triumph and Despair are some of the most exciting moments.

I think if you fleshed out the combat skills along with the opposed checks it would create a cool dynamic. E.g. if an opponent is bad at reversals then the enemy could exploit that. It makes certain wrestlers able to specialize better, and makes the traditional "adventuring party" more feasible. Except with a twist.

Just had a thought: if you spread out the combat skills (Say, Grappling (Cunning), Power (Brawn), High-Flying (Dexterity), Submission (Intellect), Striking (Brawn? Dexterity?)) you could either have a built in Rock-Paper-Scissors dynamic, or have it be built into the talents.

For built in: Power > Grappling, which means you can defend against Grappling moves using your full Power, including Brawn. I'd have to draw it out, but it would look something like the Rock/Paper/Scissors/Lizard/Spock layout.

For Talents, have something like this:

Skilled Defense

Tier: 1

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

Choose a wrestling style you are skilled at defending with. At each rank, choose a style that you can defend against using your defensive style's full dice pool.

I like the idea of the Talent but I figured that giving them different skills similar to what was stated above and then letting them defend would be interesting.

"I am using my High-Flying to attack."
"He is going to use his Submission to defend."
This can turn into something like a missile drop kick lands but the defender then manages to turn it into an ankle lock as the flyer connects.

Very big wrestling fan here, I would love to see something like this.

I think here is what you do --

1. You make story points "heat" and you make them generate as you allow moves done to you, to help the pacing of the match. Make them more numerous and used for a lot.
2. You make selling count by basically letting wrestlers rest, giving them a reason to not just chain together move after move.
3. Make strain get spent to perform/improve moves, to give them a reason to not just try to do moves all the time.
4. When your opponent announces his attack, you can either let it hit you to generate heat, try to avoid it, or try to counter to turn it into your own move. (Normal attack, attack opposed by defensive skills, attack opposed by offensive skills).
5. Momentum shifts. A match needs to have a momentum shift. I would just make this a boost you get in all rolls ... maybe you can spend heat to do it, maybe? Or maybe a Triumph? Or lose it for a despair? Making it a boost would be a good way to make it so you can gain momentum even if you already have some (to the point where the match becomes one-sided...making the comeback much more exciting!)

The biggest challenges would be making the "party" act as a team. There's really no way to do that. This would ultimately have to be a "PVP" game.

Love these ideas!! I am also a big wrestling fan. There is not enough strain costs in Genesys normally. But considering all the "damage" will be strain in this instance having those rest peroids would be great.

Also there is the thing fighting STIFF which means the blows are more real. And the "going the hard way" which is trying to get color without blading.

So many possibilities.

Personally I have wanted to make a Pro Wrestling game for ages that is OUTSIDE kayfab. Its not a fighting game its a game that simulates the reality of prowrestling. Where matches become COOP challenges to get each other OVER and back stage is full of intrigue and backstabbing.

You know that would be pretty fascinating to play for a fan. I'm sure for outsiders it would be a hard sell, though.

A game in which the players are a cooperative team, wrestling a match to get over with the crowd could be interesting. The crowd could be the "enemy" you fight, or whatever person is against you at that particular time (guy backstage talking trash, or the boss saying you aren't good enough to main event, whatever).

The ultimate problem you will run into is non fans will go completely sideways right off the bat. But I as a fan would appreciate a game like that.

There is a wrestling-themed digital book I got on Android called Slammed by Choice of Games LLC. It is a great book that just lines right up with what you are shooting for. Every place the game makes a choice would make a great scene for roleplay. In that plot you even have a rival whose career goes up against yours.

The best part is when you come up against the obvious analogs for real wrestling personalities. But the whole thing was great. You even have a kayfabe stat!

I do not think any NON fans would even look at it.

Yes the real "enemy" is the bookers, road agents, and fans. You have to build a skill set that match your persona and then convince everybody that you are the absolute ****. With the ultimate goal being a main event spot in Wrestlemania. The ultimate win is creating a story engaging enough for your guy to get over. So it's one part COOP because you can't get there without your buddy and then once single you have to work together to sell the storyline and skills to be booked in the main event. With final ultimate being winning that main event. But it's done through cooperation and manipulation of the outside variables which I mentioned first.