Perhaps, but in the heat of battle does a Force User always get conflict for attacking with their Lightsaber? Using Sabre Throw? Hawk Bat Swoop? Draw Closer?

All of those options use the Force to cause harm. Just because a Force User causes harm doesn’t mean they always get Conflict. It’s about the measure of force, did they take the least destructive solution. Was there a way to avoid the fight in the first place? At least that’s how our group has always played it.

4 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

My biggest problem with Bind as the Force Push option is that if you want to also do damage then you absolutely must use the Dark Side Pips and thus a Destiny Point with Conflict and Strain.

When you use Move to throw and injure a target you can completely rely on the Light Side to do so. It’s not a special occasion thing if you are sufficiently powerful in the Force.

We just don't see people being thrown around with the Force that often. Far more often we see objects thrown at characters. So I don't have any problem with a Dark side cost for directly damaging a character with the Force. That's in line with the other Force powers that deal direct damage.

In the prequels and Clone Wars Droids are constantly being thrown around. Actual people it’s less common, but even that happens.

Admittedly I'm only just now getting around to Clone Wars, but I haven't seen that much in season 1 and so far season 2. What I have seen has been wildly inconsistent, including using the Force as a parachute.

So far I haven't seen anything in the show to change my mind. The closest I can come is saying that maybe droids count as objects, which I'm not quite OK with on either an existential or game mechanics level, if that makes sense.

Edit: I do mostly have the site on in the background while I enter data into the character generator, so it's possible I'm missing things. As a PSA, don't forget to backup your data!

10 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

My biggest problem with Bind as the Force Push option is that if you want to also do damage then you absolutely must use the Dark Side Pips and thus a Destiny Point with Conflict and Strain.

When you use Move to throw and injure a target you can completely rely on the Light Side to do so. It’s not a special occasion thing if you are sufficiently powerful in the Force.

Once again though we’re talking about what specific effects the Force user is looking for. Is he simply trying to push the target away from himself (or pull the target to himself), or is he trying to slam the target into another target in order to injure them. It is dependent upon his intentions as to which power is more appropriate for the objective.

So, I didn’t intend for this to become a larger debate, but to clarify the intention of my original post. I’m referring to Galen Malak’s use in the Force Unleashed games. Being surrounded by enemies and repelling them away.

If he was just pushing them away and not slamming them into other people or objects, then Bind’s movement control upgrade would be the most appropriate. No matter what, however, trying this on multiple targets will require magnitude upgrades as well.

4 minutes ago, General Zod said:

So, I didn’t intend for this to become a larger debate, but to clarify the intention of my original post. I’m referring to Galen Malak’s use in the Force Unleashed games. Being surrounded by enemies and repelling them away.

I don't think anything quite covers that, no. Maybe Move can mimic it with the proper upgrades (if you're down with using Move on characters like that).

I love those games, but they get a little crazy with the Force (which is kinda the point of them).

To be fair, I dont think there is any real way to emulate the...magnitude of the force abilities used in Force Unleashed, but I’m just looking at the power itself...not that level of destruction

4 hours ago, General Zod said:

So, I didn’t intend for this to become a larger debate, but to clarify the intention of my original post. I’m referring to Galen Malak’s use in the Force Unleashed games. Being surrounded by enemies and repelling them away.

Closest you'll find is the Move power, using a combination of Strength (for Silhouette 1 targets) and Magnitude (multiple targets) upgrades. The Magnitude upgrade presumes that the GM has disallowed you treating a minion group as a single target for purposes of the Move power.

As was cited earlier, the word from Sam Stewart (pretty much the main guy responsible for designing the RPG after Jay Little) is that for majority of the telekinetic stuff you see Jedi and other Force types do, you'd use the Move power.

You can move Star Destroyers with the Move Power, it’s Force Unleashed for sure.

To Push a group of enemies from Engaged away from you without causing any harm to them then there are two ways:

1. Move. Roll a Force Power Check. Activate the Basic power and Strength Upgrade. If you want to move them further away than Short Range then you can activate the Range Upgrade. If there’s more than one minion group, or multiple Rivals, then you will also need to activate Magnitude.

Minimum 2 pips, potentially 4 or even more, any colour is fine.

2. Bind. Roll a Force Power Check. Activate the Basic Power and the Control Upgrade. Again you may need to activate Magnitude if there’s more than one target. You can only activate the Control Upgrade once, so you can only push the targets to Short. As a bonus your target cant use a Move manoeuvre for at least 1 round.

Minimum 2 pips, potentially 4 or 6, they have to be Light Side if you don’t want to cause damage.

If you are instead intent on causing damage to the target as well then you have the same two options, but the effects slightly vary:

1. Move, as above but you must make an Easy Difficulty Discipline Check for the Silhouette 1 targets, Average Difficulty If it’s multiple targets (Autofire). To effect multiple targets you will need 2 Advantage for each additional target beyond the first.

If successful you cause 10+Success-Soak Damage, pip cost is the same, and Light or Dark can be used.

2. Bind. As above, but you must use at least 1 Dark Side Pip.

Damage is equal to the pips spent, and Soak is ignored, so Minimum 2, Maximum as many as you have to spend (on Strength if needed).

Bind is great if you have lots of Lightside and don’t want to injure them, or you specifically like using Dark Side to cause harm. Immobilising is a big bonus. It’s excellent against high Soak enemies, but usually those will be opposed checks.

Move is better if you want to move the target further than Short, or you want to use the Dark Side without causing injuries. It’s also much better at causing damage to foes with Soak 8 or less, and will have the same difficulty against Nemesis where it’s an opposed Check.

4 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

You can move Star Destroyers with the Move Power, it’s Force Unleashed for sure.

To Push a group of enemies from Engaged away from you without causing any harm to them then there are two ways:

1. Move. Roll a Force Power Check. Activate the Basic power and Strength Upgrade. If you want to move them further away than Short Range then you can activate the Range Upgrade. If there’s more than one minion group, or multiple Rivals, then you will also need to activate Magnitude.

Minimum 2 pips, potentially 4 or even more, any colour is fine.

2. Bind. Roll a Force Power Check. Activate the Basic Power and the Control Upgrade. Again you may need to activate Magnitude if there’s more than one target. You can only activate the Control Upgrade once, so you can only push the targets to Short. As a bonus your target cant use a Move manoeuvre for at least 1 round.

Minimum 2 pips, potentially 4 or 6, they have to be Light Side if you don’t want to cause damage.

If you are instead intent on causing damage to the target as well then you have the same two options, but the effects slightly vary:

1. Move, as above but you must make an Easy Difficulty Discipline Check for the Silhouette 1 targets, Average Difficulty If it’s multiple targets (Autofire). To effect multiple targets you will need 2 Advantage for each additional target beyond the first.

If successful you cause 10+Success-Soak Damage, pip cost is the same, and Light or Dark can be used.

2. Bind. As above, but you must use at least 1 Dark Side Pip.

Damage is equal to the pips spent, and Soak is ignored, so Minimum 2, Maximum as many as you have to spend (on Strength if needed).

Bind is great if you have lots of Lightside and don’t want to injure them, or you specifically like using Dark Side to cause harm. Immobilising is a big bonus. It’s excellent against high Soak enemies, but usually those will be opposed checks.

Move is better if you want to move the target further than Short, or you want to use the Dark Side without causing injuries. It’s also much better at causing damage to foes with Soak 8 or less, and will have the same difficulty against Nemesis where it’s an opposed Check.

If you have at least one range upgrades for Bind, you can move a character from short to medium at the very least. If you have more range upgrades or enough Force Pips to spend, you could move them from medium to long or from long to extreme. And vice versa. The only real limitation is that the movement is only one range band.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

If you have at least one range upgrades for Bind, you can move a character from short to medium at the very least. If you have more range upgrades or enough Force Pips to spend, you could move them from medium to long or from long to extreme. And vice versa. The only real limitation is that the movement is only one range band.

True, but in the context of the original post you are limited to Engaged to Short or I guess Short to Medium. A Medium Range target is probably outside the range of the Force Unleashed Power.

37 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

True, but in the context of the original post you are limited to Engaged to Short or I guess Short to Medium. A Medium Range target is probably outside the range of the Force Unleashed Power.

Not sure. I never played the game, unfortunately. However, given how “overpowered” people claim Starkiller is, I wouldn’t put it past him.

On 6/24/2018 at 8:18 AM, Richardbuxton said:

In the prequels and Clone Wars Droids are constantly being thrown around. Actual people it’s less common, but even that happens.

**** Yoda slams 2 imperial guards into a wall.