Hey folks.

Looking to purchase a new book this weekend and I was wondering, is there a Force Repulse power or does Move (properly enhances) work in this regard?

if there is Repulse, what book do I find it in?

Do you mean like the Niman force talent Force Assault?

That's move with the right upgrades, yeah.

3 hours ago, General Zod said:

Hey folks.

Looking to purchase a new book this weekend and I was wondering, is there a Force Repulse power or does Move (properly enhances) work in this regard?

if there is Repulse, what book do I find it in?

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

That's move with the right upgrades, yeah.

There is also Bind. It has a movement Control upgrade that allows the user to push a target one range band away or pull that target one range band closer.

If you have Niman disciple you can use Draw Nearer to pull opponents closer or Force Assault to take a Move action as a follow-on maneuver for a failed lightsaber attack roll. So, to push someone away with Force Assault you would need the Move power with the right upgrades. Or, as noted, you can do it with Bind and the right upgrades.

Awesome, thank you very much for the help/guidance!

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There is also Bind. It has a movement Control upgrade that allows the user to push a target one range band away or pull that target one range band closer.

Bind is actually the worse way to do it.

Move it easier to do with it.

11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Bind is actually the worse way to do it.

Move it easier to do with it.

That depends upon what you’re trying to accomplish. Each has their uses and advantages.

There's probably dev commentary somewhere that contradicts me, but Move's basic power does specify "object." In my personal preference, I think Move is inappropriate for use on characters. That is Bind's niche.

13 minutes ago, deraforia said:

There's probably dev commentary somewhere that contradicts me, but Move's basic power does specify "object." In my personal preference, I think Move is inappropriate for use on characters. That is Bind's niche.

The devs have contradicted that belief multiple times. Move can indeed be used on PCs and NPCs. Before the release of F&D, the Move Power was the only way todo so. It wasn’t until F&D came out that the Bind Power was introduced to the game.

15 minutes ago, deraforia said:

There's probably dev commentary somewhere that contradicts me, but Move's basic power does specify "object." In my personal preference, I think Move is inappropriate for use on characters. That is Bind's niche.

So your theory is people arent objects. Pretty sure objects is more inclusice term

Which os why they used it. And the fact that devs have said force slam can be done with move.

It is also far easier to do slam and repulse with move than to do it with bind. Since bind requires force rating 2. And you can repulse a single target with move. It will be more effective with a higher force rating though.

4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The devs have contradicted that belief multiple times. Move can indeed be used on PCs and NPCs.

As I said, I'm sure they have. I'm just offering my perspective. Bind with the proper upgrades can immobilize a character, force them back, and disorient them. That matches what we see in the source material (at least what I've seen of it) better than being able to fling characters across a battlefield.

15 minutes ago, deraforia said:

As I said, I'm sure they have. I'm just offering my perspective. Bind with the proper upgrades can immobilize a character, force them back, and disorient them. That matches what we see in the source material (at least what I've seen of it) better than being able to fling characters across a battlefield.

Obiwan in episode 1 could slam minions. Which is doable with one force die if yoj treat minions as one target.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

So  your theory is people arent objects. Pretty sure objects is more inclusice term 

Depends on the use of the word, I suppose, but most people would take offense to being referred to as objects. I can be the object of a sentence, or I can the object of someone's desire, but I'm not an object in the same sense as the phone I'm typing this on. Target would be the more appropriate word if it is meant to affect characters, and it is the word used in other Force powers.

12 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Which os why they used it. And the fact that devs have said force  slam can be done with move  .

I understand they have. I'm not arguing what's RAI (I conceded that battle before it began), just what seems more appropriate.

14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

It is     also far easier  to do slam and repulse with move than to do it with bind. Since bind requires force rating 2. And you can repulse a single target with move. It will be more effective with a higher force rating though.

That something is easier to do one way wouldn't persuade me that it's the right way. In fact, all it does is further question why one way is so much easier than other. My personal answer, because I find it more appropriate for my experience, is that it doesn't work that way. Affecting a living (or maybe mindful? Don't want to hate on droids) being is different from moving around a box of bricks. It helps that I'm reading it by the book and don't need to look up arcane developer rulings to know it works differently than the language would suggest.

19 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Obiwan in episode 1 could slam minions. Which is doable with one force die if yoj treat minions as one target.

Bind with strain upgrade.

Edit: I mean yeah, it's not perfect, but they're also minions. I'd need to re-watch episode one, but they could be taken out for any reason and have it be narratively described as a force slam. Other force slams we see feel more like bind to me than move. Heck, he could have just used dark side pips.

Edit 2: found some clips, but only of Qui Gon. Dude definitely has more than one Force die and probably little compunction about using a dark side pip here and there. He hits two droids and then one droid.

34 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

So your theory is people arent objects...

We really aren't supposed to objectify people, but let's be honest, it happens. ?

20 minutes ago, deraforia said:

Depends on the use of the word, I suppose, but most people would take offense to being referred to as objects. I can be the object of a sentence, or I can the object of someone's desire, but I'm not an object in the same sense as the phone I'm typing this on. Target would be the more appropriate word if it is meant to affect characters, and it is the word used in other Force powers.

I understand they have. I'm not arguing what's RAI (I conceded that battle before it began), just what seems more appropriate.

That something is easier to do one way wouldn't persuade me that it's the right way. In fact, all it does is further question why one way is so much easier than other. My personal answer, because I find it more appropriate for my experience, is that it doesn't work that way. Affecting a living (or maybe mindful? Don't want to hate on droids) being is different from moving around a box of bricks. It helps that I'm reading it by the book and don't need to look up arcane developer rulings to know it works differently than the language would suggest.

One should pay attention to how the bind is described. The effect fiits closer to what vader and Kylo do. Than what Obiwan and Quigon did.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

One should pay attention to how the bind is described. The effect  fiits  closer to what vader and Kylo do. Than what Obiwan and Quigon did.

Why would Vader and Kylo use a less effective method of wounding with the Force, since they also both clearly have the Move power? I suppose Kylo might not have any strength upgrades to move something silhouette 1 (I think we only see him try to move the lightsaber in TFA?), but the same wouldn't be true of Vader.

More like why would they use a power that doesnt cause as much fear. Also in rogue one we do see vader use both on thenrebel soldiers.

Also only one target in both and can cause harm in a more cotroled manner. Which is scarier

The sensation of falling is pretty fear inducing. That's what you get when flung multiple range bands. And seeing that would be pretty pants ruining, too.

Where does he use Move? I only see Bind ?

For the record, I understand I'm not going to convince you, and I hope you realize that I'm not going to be convinced either. We both have our ideas about what works in our games and in our perceptions of the Star Wars universe. I'm just defending my reasoning. So long as the conversation is amiable for both (or all) parties, I don't mind continuing it, but if the only goal is "winning" a debate on an internet forum, we may as well leave the discussion where it stands.

Arguing subjective interpretations of force use as seen in the films is completely irrelevant in terms of whether or not move can be used to move people in the game. The devs made a ruling to end this very debate. The debate is over. The practical differences between Bind and Move from a system perspective, and which one best represents what you are trying to accomplish, are a matter of taste and prefered mechanical outcome. That's the thing about roleplaying games. They provide an approximate model of "reality" for adjudicating uncertain or opposed outcomes. That's it. This is a narrative system and the force powers are flexible enough to be molded to good narrative description on the fly. If you, personally, prefer bind for a particular application, use it. But move is also valid. Why waste time arguing a point that has already been decided?

2 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Arguing subjective interpretations of force use as seen in the films is completely irrelevant in terms of whether or not move can be used to move people in the game. The devs made a ruling to end this very debate. The debate is over. The practical differences between Bind and Move from a system perspective, and which one best represents what you are trying to accomplish, are a matter of taste and prefered mechanical outcome. That's the thing about roleplaying games. They provide an approximate model of "reality" for adjudicating uncertain or opposed outcomes. That's it. This is a narrative system and the force powers are flexible enough to be molded to good narrative description on the fly. If you, personally, prefer bind for a particular application, use it. But move is also valid. Why waste time arguing a point that has already been decided?

See my above post. I stated my opinion, and replied to replies in kind. I'm not trying to win any debate, just explaining my personal reasoning, agreeing from the outset that it was contrary to what devs have said on the matter.

My biggest problem with Bind as the Force Push option is that if you want to also do damage then you absolutely must use the Dark Side Pips and thus a Destiny Point with Conflict and Strain.

When you use Move to throw and injure a target you can completely rely on the Light Side to do so. It’s not a special occasion thing if you are sufficiently powerful in the Force.

But the action will probably give some conflict anyway, in our games at least