2 hours ago, nikk whyte said:This is patently false, as cards that come in the x-wing expansion given out to those in attendance at the announcement do not have the same layout, icons, and templating as wave 14.
We are discussing an ability of a card that is only in saws pack.... wtf are you smoking?
11 hours ago, Herowannabe said:Citation needed
11 hours ago, Herowannabe said:It appears that the phrase “after you activate” in 2nd edition means “right after you become the active ship, but before you’ve done anything.”
Citation needed. Until that’s provided “activation” will continue to mean what it’s always meant, as will “after you activate”.
You also haven’t explained the missing symbol that denotes Proton Torpedoes don’t get range bonuses, which the designers have explicitly spoken about.
Also, I’ve noticed a few people saying “those videos and sample games were weeks ago.” The cards for Wave 14 were also sent to the printers weeks ago, possibly more weeks ago.
Edited by mazz07 hours ago, Icelom said:We are discussing an ability of a card that is only in saws pack.... wtf are you smoking?
They’re probably talking about other cards that come in this pack which indicate that this pack contains faulty cards. For example:
Once you accept that this pack contains faulty cards it makes sense to assume in any discrepancies between this pack and the previews this pack is wrong, until we know more. I would give this thread a read:
Edited by mazz0
6 hours ago, Icelom said:We are discussing an ability of a card that is only in saws pack.... wtf are you smoking?
Look at ion torpedoes and the proton torpedoes that come in saws.
The right half of each card is completely different.
4 hours ago, mazz0 said:Citation needed. Until that’s provided “activation” will continue to mean what it’s always meant, as will “after you activate”.
You also haven’t explained the missing symbol that denotes Proton Torpedoes don’t get range bonuses, which the designers have explicitly spoken about.
Also, I’ve noticed a few people saying “those videos and sample games were weeks ago.” The cards for Wave 14 were also sent to the printers weeks ago, possibly more weeks ago.
Fair enough. And I have to apologize for the tone of my first post, I came off WAY more abrasive than I meant to. Sorry about that.
Anyway, back to the issue(s) at hand.
As a TO, the only official ruling I could rightly make is go with what the card says until FFG says otherwise, even if it seems blatantly obvious that the card is wrong.
Actually, not even that. Second edition hasn’t even been released yet, so there is no
official
play. Bickering about which version of each card is the right version is- frankly- pointless. Let’s wait until the app and 2.0 are officially released and see what FFG has to say about the cards (I’m sure the app will show the correct version of each card) and in the meantime we can smile and laugh at the discrepancies.
23 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:Fair enough. And I have to apologize for the tone of my first post, I came off WAY more abrasive than I meant to. Sorry about that.
Anyway, back to the issue(s) at hand. As a TO, the only official ruling I could rightly make is go with what the card says until FFG says otherwise, even if it seems blatantly obvious that the card is wrong. Actually, not even that. Second edition hasn’t even been released yet, so there is no official play. Bickering about which version of each card is the right version is- frankly- pointless. Let’s wait until the app and 2.0 are officially released and see what FFG has to say about the cards (I’m sure the app will show the correct version of each card) and in the meantime we can smile and laugh at the discrepancies.
Do we have confirmation on that the app will show the cards with their full text?
IIRC they didn't confirm that... And that would also mean that you don't need cards to play the game at all.
It would be nice, but don't set yourself up for disappointment
3 hours ago, Herowannabe said:Fair enough. And I have to apologize for the tone of my first post, I came off WAY more abrasive than I meant to. Sorry about that.
Anyway, back to the issue(s) at hand. As a TO, the only official ruling I could rightly make is go with what the card says until FFG says otherwise, even if it seems blatantly obvious that the card is wrong. Actually, not even that. Second edition hasn’t even been released yet, so there is no official play. Bickering about which version of each card is the right version is- frankly- pointless. Let’s wait until the app and 2.0 are officially released and see what FFG has to say about the cards (I’m sure the app will show the correct version of each card) and in the meantime we can smile and laugh at the discrepancies.
No worries dude. Yeah, it doesn’t matter till 2nd Edition is actually out, and then some of these cards will be replaced by the ones in the core set and conversion kits anyway. The unique pilots might still be an issue though.
Where is it that they say Activating is a single instant wen you become active, and actually moving etc is after that? Anyone got a link? That would at least sort out 2 Tubes, which seems like the most important breakage to me.
1 hour ago, mazz0 said:Where is it that they say Activating is a single instant wen you become active, and actually moving etc is after that? Anyone got a link? That would at least sort out 2 Tubes, which seems like the most important breakage to me.
Well it’s the clear distinction between S-foils saying “before” and my Edrio saying “After” gonna be hard convinced they trigger at the same time... where as on the stream and in all the articles Edrio reads “before” just like S-foils
6 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:Do we have confirmation on that the app will show the cards with their full text?
IIRC they didn't confirm that... And that would also mean that you don't need cards to play the game at all.
It would be nice, but don't set yourself up for disappointment
If it doesn’t that is going to make that app useless for squad building as you will need your gear in front of you to do anything. Also it would have to have code flags to prevent you from putting rebel on imp etc... I find it very unlikely that it won’t have text.
As for playing without cards, you can do that now. Try going to a tournament without cards, I doubt they’ll say it’s ok.
IIRC Frank mentioned in one of the streams that they removed the term 'immediately' from the 2.0 language because all directions happen immediately after their trigger and the the term was redundant. With that, and since 'Before you activate' is an extremely vague term in regards to timing (could be any time before that ship is active), they switched the wording to 'After you activate' to avoid that confusion.
So; if 'After you activate' is immediately after you activate because everything is immediate, and the first step of activation is to select an active ship; Edrio still works exactly as Alex used him on stream (before you reveal your dial) its now just worded much more accurately.
3 minutes ago, BVRCH said:IIRC Frank mentioned in one of the streams that they removed the term 'immediately' from the 2.0 language because all directions happen immediately after their trigger and the the term was redundant. With that, and since 'Before you activate' is an extremely vague term in regards to timing (could be any time before that ship is active), they switched the wording to 'After you activate' to avoid that confusion.
So; if 'After you activate' is immediately after you activate because everything is immediate, and the first step of activation is to select an active ship; Edrio still works exactly as Alex used him on stream (before you reveal your dial) its now just worded much more accurately.
I agree with everything except that last bit. Sounds to me like it should have been worded “when you become the active ship...”
1 minute ago, Herowannabe said:I agree with everything except that last bit. Sounds to me like it should have been worded “when you become the active ship...”
Well that might be subjectively more accurate than 'after you activate', but 'after you activate' is still more accurate than 'before you activate', so my point still stands.
I believe they chose 'after you activate' instead of 'when you become the active ship' simply due to it being fewer words and taking up less space.
52 minutes ago, BVRCH said:Well that might be subjectively more accurate than 'after you activate', but 'after you activate' is still more accurate than ' before you activate'...
Um... not really. They’re exactly the same amount of vagueness. See diagram below:
<—————————-before / activate / after——————————->
When does the “before you active” window begin?
When does the “after you activate” end?
What window of time does “activate” even cover? Just the period of time before you’ve revealed your dial or done anything? Everything until after you’ve completed your dial reveal, maneuver, and action, and anything else? Somewhere in between?
I mean, yeah, once the game designers define what each phase of activation is and what it means and what “before”/“during”/“after” each cover then it will all make sense, but until then the phrases are still muddy and unclear.
15 hours ago, Herowannabe said:Um... not really. They’re exactly the same amount of vagueness. See diagram below:
<—————————-before / activate / after——————————->
When does the “before you active” window begin?
When does the “after you activate” end?
What window of time does “activate” even cover? Just the period of time before you’ve revealed your dial or done anything? Everything until after you’ve completed your dial reveal, maneuver, and action, and anything else? Somewhere in between?
I mean, yeah, once the game designers define what each phase of activation is and what it means and what “before”/“during”/“after” each cover then it will all make sense, but until then the phrases are still muddy and unclear.
Well I based my first point on that Frank had mentioned that everything is immediate after triggering. Now that is not a confirmed detail per se, but it was literally the first thing I said.
And yes the assumption is; immediately after activating (selecting your ship to activate) Edrio's ability triggers. As far as we know "before you reveal your dial" doesn't exist for the same reasons I gave in my previous comments, and therefore "After you activate" is taking that place mechanically, but worded more accurately.
Edited by BVRCH13 hours ago, BVRCH said:Well I based my first point on that Frank had mentioned that everything is immediate after triggering. Now that is not a confirmed detail per se, but it was literally the first thing I said.
And yes the assumption is; immediately after activating (selecting your ship to activate) Edrio's ability triggers. As far as we know "before you reveal your dial" doesn't exist for the same reasons I gave in my previous comments, and therefore "After you activate" is taking that place mechanically, but worded more accurately.
I still don't see why that's more accurate. If we accept this new definition of "activate", and we pretend there's an "immediately" before "after you activate" and "before you reveal your dial" then both are equally (ie 100%) accurate (or both uselessly vague without that inferred "immediately").
17 hours ago, mazz0 said:I still don't see why that's more accurate. If we accept this new definition of "activate", and we pretend there's an "immediately" before "after you activate" and "before you reveal your dial" then both are equally (ie 100%) accurate (or both uselessly vague without that inferred "immediately").
If there is no sequence, implied or otherwise, then every order based instruction is vague. 'After' semantically is more accurate as it directs 'do this then this'; 'before' can be misconstrued to any point prior, and my point is they are tightening up this language, 1; to shorten text, and 2; read more accurately. Either way, you finding 'after you activate' and 'before you reveal your dial' as accurate or inaccurate as each other is moot, since as far we know, one of those terms no longer exists.
Edited by BVRCHThe spanish version of this card says "Before you activate".
Edited by viktr10 hours ago, BVRCH said:'After' semantically is more accurate as it directs 'do this then this'; 'before' can be misconstrued to any point prior
"After" can be interpreted as "do this then that".
"Before" can be interpreted as "do that then this".
"After" can be interpreted as "at any point in time later than".
"Before" can be interpreted as "at any point in time earlier than".
Identical levels of precision. It's like left and right, or top and bottom, or any other pair of words describing two sides of something.
13 minutes ago, mazz0 said:"After" can be interpreted as "do this then that".
"Before" can be interpreted as "do that then this".
"After" can be interpreted as "at any point in time later than".
"Before" can be interpreted as "at any point in time earlier than".Identical levels of precision. It's like left and right, or top and bottom, or any other pair of words describing two sides of something.
No its not.. After means there is a clear trigger preceeding the instruction no matter where that instruction itself happens. Before can be ANY time prior to that. The game sequence only moves forward.
I'm done with this, you seem more interested in arguing than actually clarifying anything.
5 hours ago, BVRCH said:No its not.. After means there is a clear trigger preceeding the instruction no matter where that instruction itself happens. Before can be ANY time prior to that. The game sequence only moves forward.
After can be ANY time after that. Are you perhaps treating " after " as though it reads " immediately after "? That could explain the confusion.
5 hours ago, BVRCH said:you seem more interested in arguing than actually clarifying anything.
I'm not FFG, I can't rule on anything.
Is it really that difficult to send someone to China for the sole sake of reading the cards as they're being printed? Like all they have to do is go through one pack, see if it's all being printed right and then say "looks good, print more" or "there's a mistake, halt production for a few hours". It doesn't save them any money if they're now forced to reprint things that they've already printed due to their mistakes. This is like amateur hour stuff; very embarrassing for them. It's even worse as this is a product that is supposed to fix their old mistakes. They really need to realize that they are a large game company now and should not be making these types of mistakes anymore.
Is it really that difficult to send someone to China for the sole sake of reading the cards as they're being printed? Like all they have to do is go through one pack, see if it's all being printed right and then say "looks good, print more" or "there's a mistake, halt production for a few hours". It doesn't save them any money if they're now forced to reprint things that they've already printed due to their mistakes. This is like amateur hour stuff; very embarrassing for them. It's even worse as this is a product that is supposed to fix their old mistakes. They really need to realize that they are a large game company now and should not be making these types of mistakes anymore.
On 6/30/2018 at 1:03 AM, mazz0 said:After can be ANY time after that. Are you perhaps treating " after " as though it reads " immediately after "? That could explain the confusion.
That is literally the whole premise of my argument. Which I have clearly stated multiple times now. Again, it was the preface to my argument.
Not only is it something that Frank mentioned was now a ubiquitous mechanic in 2.0, but it is clarified in the 1.0 FAQ that immediately means nothing. There is no difference between after and immediately after in 1.0. An instruction is immediate after any trigger unless stated otherwise on a card, or interrupted by another. It is likely to be the same in 2.0 after Frank's comments. Arguing otherwise is hyperbole for arguments sake.
Edited by BVRCH2 hours ago, BVRCH said:That is literally the whole premise of my argument. Which I have clearly stated multiple times now. Again, it was the preface to my argument.
Not only is it something that Frank mentioned was now a ubiquitous mechanic in 2.0, but it is clarified in the 1.0 FAQ that immediately means nothing. There is no difference between after and immediately after in 1.0. An instruction is immediate after any trigger unless stated otherwise on a card, or interrupted by another. It is likely to be the same in 2.0 after Frank's comments. Arguing otherwise is hyperbole for arguments sake.
Right, so “after” is no more precise than “before”; you need an assumed “immediately”, which can just as well be applied to “before” as “after”, can it not? That “immediately” is what gives the precision, not any inherent difference between “before” and “after”. I think we agree on that?