Solo was the first SW movie I haven't seen in Theaters. After TLJ, I refuse to give Disney anymore of my money in relation to SW. It wasn't just the mishandling of Luke but the reused Empire plot, Leia Poppins, the SJW tones, the bad jokes, the boring shoe-horned in characters, Mary Sue, etc.

It's clear Disney doesn't have the creativeness to write good plots that are original. The new trilogy has shown this by reusing plots from past SW movies with the ironic moto of "let the past die".

I won't support a company that doesn't have the skills required to put out a good/respectable product.

If this causes SW to eventually disappear then "let the past die.."

Double post...

What people keep failing to see is that this movie isn't all about them. It is for their children. If you watched the movie as if you were a child, you would appreciate it. That's why the fanbase is divided and why we can't agree on the movie.

I watched the new Star Wars film as if I were a child. I have enjoyed every one of them.

5 hours ago, AwesomeJedi said:

What people keep failing to see is that this movie isn't all about them. It is for their children. If you watched the movie as if you were a child, you would appreciate it. That's why the fanbase is divided and why we can't agree on the movie.

I watched the new Star Wars film as if I were a child. I have enjoyed every one of them.

Not to put words in your mouth but that is similar to the stuff people say about others works, that it is for children. IE Teen Titans to Teen Titans Go, Thunder Cats to Thunder Cats Roar, etc. If you aren't saying that then sorry for misinterpreting your words, but I don't think asking the films to be held to a standard is wrong. The first Jurassic Park is a film that can be watched by adults and bring back a sense of wonder. As Zarovichx stated it is a bit boring getting another Empire vs Rebel plot when it is something we've already seen and doesn't make tons of logical sense considering where ROTJ left off. More so for the casual audience who don't obsess over small details and the canonicity of stuff, and so far it seems like the ST has been heavily leaning on a 'need to read the books' to understand everything approach. I know not everyone likes the prequels, but I can appreciate that they were telling their own story rather than rehashing alot of the OT.

17 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

As Zarovichx stated it is a bit boring getting another Empire vs Rebel plot when it is something we've already seen and doesn't make tons of logical sense considering where ROTJ left off.

I'm not sure I follow you. What doesn't make sense? That the war re-ignited? That an idealistic, revolutionary force was unable to install an effective government or consolidate power after toppling the current regime?

I get finding it boring, but that dynamic has played out many, many times throughout human history. How many revolutionary governments were installed only to be overthrown themselves in France from 1780-1880? 8 or so?

That's part of the problem with revolutions. The revolutionary energy used to topple the current regime can be counterproductive to stabilizing society after the regime changes. A resumption of war is common.

2 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I'm not sure I follow you. What doesn't make sense? That the war re-ignited? That an idealistic, revolutionary force was unable to install an effective government or consolidate power after toppling the current regime?

I get finding it boring, but that dynamic has played out many, many times throughout human history. How many revolutionary governments were installed only to be overthrown themselves in France from 1780-1880? 8 or so?

That's part of the problem with revolutions. The revolutionary energy used to topple the current regime can be counterproductive to stabilizing society after the regime changes. A resumption of war is common.

Just looking at the films as a whole, the OT sets up the good guys winning over the tyrannical empire plot. Of course it is just the first victory in a long war but with how it is framed in the film it looks like the good guys win and will win. The ST then goes to reboot it into the OT dynamic without explaining the state of the galaxy. Its not that I can't see it failing its just when I try to look at it as someone just looking at the films it brings up the questions like 'didn't they beat the empire in the last film'. Granted, talking with some people there's even been confusion over when RO takes place, some people I talked to in passing were very sure that it took place after TFA, since it came out after that film. And as someone who has been trying to keep up with stuff I'm still trying to figure out how big the FO is supposed to be since that hasn't been very clear at this point.

Personally, I just find it a really boring set up and would have liked something different like the FO being some small force trying to distable the NR with our old heroes fighting the threat and passing the torch on to the next generation. Especially would have liked to get a scene where all three OT heroes were together again but that won't happen well ever now outside of books, comics and maybe an animated show.

On 6/28/2018 at 12:45 PM, Zarovichx said:

Solo was the first SW movie I haven't seen in Theaters. After TLJ, I refuse to give Disney anymore of my money in relation to SW. It wasn't just the mishandling of Luke but the reused Empire plot, Leia Poppins, the SJW tones, the bad jokes, the boring shoe-horned in characters, Mary Sue, etc.

It's clear Disney doesn't have the creativeness to write good plots that are original. The new trilogy has shown this by reusing plots from past SW movies with the ironic moto of "let the past die".

I won't support a company that doesn't have the skills required to put out a good/respectable product.

If this causes SW to eventually disappear then "let the past die.."

The irony is that Solo is a good, respectable product. As was Rogue One, but Solo was creative and really fun; your "clarity" only serves to hurt a product that helped get SW back on track for those of you who didn't like TLJ.

15 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

The    first Jurassic Park is a film that can be watched by adults  and bring back a sense of wonder.

This is what I was trying to get to.

On 6/30/2018 at 10:34 AM, AwesomeJedi said:

This is what I was trying to get to.

Ah, I thought that you were trying to make the argument that since it is made/aimed for kids that they don't have to make something that makes sense or requires all that much effort, ala the Minions, really anything Illumenation pops to mind, The Emoji Movie, etc. Of course, I'm glad that you were able to feel that sense of childhood wonder watching the film, it just didn't resonate with me personally, yet films like Jurassic Park, How to Train Your Dragon, Infinity War, The Lego Movie etc can elicit that response.

It was a bad movie. These disney $tar War$ movies are rather garbage. They are starting to make the prequels look good.

Here are movies that would have made a better story.

On 6/22/2018 at 12:22 PM, ViscerothSWG said:

I found a source.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/star-wars-every-confirmed-rumored-and-now-canceled-movie-and-tv-show-on-the-way-a161550

This gives SWG ships a better chance to be released sooner. Less movie ships to force into the line up. So it's bittersweet for me.

None of those are genuine sources.

35 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That's going to leave a mark.

It took not even 2 minutes to go down the Mary Sue path. At least he identified himself as a moron quickly so I could dismiss his trash.

"Guys guys, thanks for joining me 6 months after the release so I could repeat the exact same thing people have been saying for 6 months."

What an important contribution to the internet.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

It took not even 2 minutes to go down the Mary Sue path. At least he identified himself as a moron quickly so I could dismiss his trash.

"Guys guys, thanks for joining me 6 months after the release so I could repeat the exact same thing people have been saying for 6 months."

What an important contribution to the internet.

You're braver than me for actually starting to watch it. As soon as I saw the way failure was written (in red and dripping to put a real emphasis on the word) and Holdo on the front, I thought to myself: 'yeah this video will probably be very objective and not field with anti feminism/SWJ nonsense....'

But if you have the time to watch a more positive video (but still not objective), I thought this one was funny:

You also have to admit the solo ad campaign was just lazy when compared to the other films.

vs

or this

or even this

Out of the 4 movie posters which one is the worst?

2 hours ago, Red Castle said:

You're braver than me for actually starting to watch it. As soon as I saw the way failure was written (in red and dripping to put a real emphasis on the word) and Holdo on the front, I thought to myself: 'yeah this video will probably be very objective and not field with anti feminism/SWJ nonsense....

Yeah I had a bad feeling about it based on the font for Failure too ?

I tried to give it a shot because it was a "Cinematic failure" so I thought maybe he'd try to review it as, you know, a movie .

But nope. Just another attempt to push a political agenda using an intellectually dishonest "movie review" as the vehicle.

3 hours ago, Sekac said:

It took not even 2 minutes to go down the Mary Sue path. At least he identified himself as a moron quickly so I could dismiss his trash.

"Guys guys, thanks for joining me 6 months after the release so I could repeat the exact same thing people have been saying for 6 months."

What an important contribution to the internet.

That's right Sekac; ignoring people's opinions will make them magically go away. Just like ignoring the multitude of flaws in The Last Jedi will magically make it a good film.

*snort*, sorry, not even wlllful ignorance can ,make The Last Jedi a good film.

5 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That's right Sekac; ignoring people's opinions will make them magically go away. Just like ignoring the multitude of flaws in The Last Jedi will magically make it a good film.

*snort*, sorry, not even wlllful ignorance can ,make The Last Jedi a good film.

I'm not ignoring his opinions. I went out of my way to listen to them. Then I realized his opinions offered nothing new, literally the exact same wording that I've heard or read hundreds of times since the movie came out.

If i avoid a stand up comic with a "what's the deal with airline food" bit, that doesn't make his bit magically go away. It does, however make it extremely easy to dismiss them as a hack.

And that dude is a hack.

3 hours ago, Sekac said:

It took    not even 2 minutes to go down the Mary  Sue path   .   

I've started to argue that Rey isn't a Mary Sue. Would you call Mors Kochanski a Mary Sue?

No.

He is good at everything because he spent years learning and training.

Rey has been a survivalist since she was abandoned. Growing up on a harsh world has honed her skills. She has to scavenge and fight to stay alive.

If you were stranded on a place like Jakku without many people to depend on, you would have two options: die or learn to be good at everything because you don't have people to depend on.

Here are some more examples of people who survived to make my point clear.

Just now, AwesomeJedi said:

I've started to argue that Rey isn't a Mary Sue. Would you call Bear Grylls a Mary Sue?

No.

He is good at everything because he spent years getting active and training.

Rey has been a survivalist since she was abandoned. Growing up on a harsh world has honed her skills. She has to scavenge and fight to stay alive.

If you were stranded on a place like Jakku without many people to depend on, you would have two options: die or learn to be good at everything because you don't have people to depend on.

https://www.radiotimes.com/travel/2014-09-20/bear-grylls-admits-some-substance-to-hotel-fakery-allegations/

As someone who had to take wilderness survival training I can tell you what many of my instructors had told me, He is full of piss!

3 hours ago, Sekac said:

I'm not ignoring his opinions. I went out of my way to listen to them. Then I realized his opinions offered nothing new, literally the exact same wording that I've heard or read hundreds of times since the movie came out.

If i avoid a stand up comic with a "what's the deal with airline food" bit, that doesn't make his bit magically go away. It does, however make it extremely easy to dismiss them as a hack.

And that dude is a hack.

But, I mean what is the deal with airline food!?

3 hours ago, AwesomeJedi said:

I've started to argue that Rey isn't a Mary Sue. Would you call Mors Kochanski a Mary Sue?

No.

He is good at everything because he spent years learning and training.

Rey has been a survivalist since she was abandoned. Growing up on a harsh world has honed her skills. She has to scavenge and fight to stay alive.

If you were stranded on a place like Jakku without many people to depend on, you would have two options: die or learn to be good at everything because you don't have people to depend on.

Here are some more examples of people who survived to make my point clear.

I don't mind Rey having skills based off of her background, that only makes sense. Her flying the Falcon is iffy to me, mostly due to the high skill with there being nothing said to allude to her having those skills before in the film; however I did make the concession that maybe due to scavenging so often in those wrecks she'd know them well enough to fly in them...possibly. I do question how she knows how to swim coming from an entirely desert planet as we see her swim in TLJ, and I question how the heck she shot 3 ties with her first shot while manning the Falcon's guns especially when the previous film showed that she wasn't really used to using even a blaster.

Her skills with the force though, those are BS and are explained in such a way. The film paints it as the force giving her the abilities to make her Kylo's equal, which is some major level BS considering we've never seen the force act that way before and removes the effort the character needs to put in to get their strengths. The tie in book for TLJ explains it as she gets the force abilities and skills of those she touches, which again is not a rewarding way to get your abilities when you don't need to train to earn them. Had TLJ had a time skip or at least showed her doing actual training this would have made it all more believable/acceptable.

I personally think Rey's best moment is her silent introduction in TFA.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

Her flying the Falcon is iffy to me, mostly due t  o the high skill with there being nothing said to allude   to her having those skills before in the film  ;    

She says she's a pilot. That was the same explanation Luke got. If it were revealed that her hover tractor had similar controls as the falcon you'd have no issue, I assume.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

I do question        how she knows how to swim  c  oming from an entirely desert planet as we see her swim in TL     J,

This criticism is predicated on the fact that you don't like her force power. Being in contact with Kylo is a perfectly plausible explanation.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

The film   paints it as the force giving her the abilities to make her Kylo's equal, which is some major level BS  considering we've never seen the force act that way  bef    ore and removes the effort the chara  cter needs to put in to get their strengths.

Two problems with this.

1) If not seeing the force operate that way before makes a power BS then most force powers are BS. Here's a comprehensive list of non-BS force powers:

- force choking

- blocking lasers

- Jedi mind tricks

- spontaneous evaporation

- force ghost whispers

- shooting accurately w/o targeting computers

- feeling other people's presence or death.

Notable BS powers include telekinesis, super jump/speed, visible force ghosts, and force lightning. Every single Star Wars movie has introduced at least one new power. Why continuing that tradition is suddenly unacceptable, I do not know.

2) Luke didn't have training in the areas he excelled and didn't have a "BS" force power to justify it either. He blew up the death star on his first space flight because a ghost told him to, taught himself to fight with a lightsaber so well that he could hold his own against Vader, and then taught himself how to force choke and mind trick while living in isolation.

So why is it a problem that one character can excel without training (though usually after failing first), and not a problem that another excels without training (and never fails first)?

59 minutes ago, Sekac said:

She says she's a pilot. That was the same explanation Luke got. If it were revealed that her hover tractor had similar controls as the falcon you'd have no issue, I assume.

The difference is, at least from what I remember, is that it is established that Luke planned to get into the Imperial flight academy, him making his comment about the cost of the trip to Alderaan, the scene in the Rebel briefing where he talks about how easy the shot would be, and the Biggs scene where Biggs says how Luke is a good pilot. And those scenes are all before he gets in an X-Wing. Conversely, to the best of my memory all we get on Rey's ability to fly is that she didn't know how she did that and that she had never flown off world before, both of which are right after she pulled off her maneuver. Its a matter of the screenplay not establishing said traits before.

As for the hover tractor, I don't remember that, where was that said? If in a book then that does nothing to help the film.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

This criticism is predicated on the fact that you don't like her force power. Being in contact with Kylo is a perfectly plausible explanation.

A character who doesn't have to earn her abilities is not relatable nor compelling, in my opinion. There is no downside to her ability she just gets abilities walking around touching people. Compare that to Rogue who has a similar power, however she gets their powers for a limited time and suffers from not being able to touch anyone else without harming them. Most of the characters that I know in fiction with an ability similar to Rey's suffer heavy downsides to their abilities because of it.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

1) If not seeing the force operate that way before makes a power BS then most force powers are BS. Here's a comprehensive list of non-BS force powers:

- force choking

- blocking lasers

- Jedi mind tricks

- spontaneous evaporation

- force ghost whispers

- shooting accurately w/o targeting computers

- feeling other people's presence or death.

Notable BS powers include telekinesis, super jump/speed, visible force ghosts, and force lightning. Every single Star Wars movie has introduced at least one new power. Why continuing that tradition is suddenly unacceptable, I do not know.

2) Luke didn't have training in the areas he excelled and didn't have a "BS" force power to justify it either. He blew up the death star on his first space flight because a ghost told him to, taught himself to fight with a lightsaber so well that he could hold his own against Vader, and then taught himself how to force choke and mind trick while living in isolation.

So why is it a problem that one character can excel without training (though usually after failing first), and not a problem that another excels without training (and never fails first)?

My complaint is mostly that it isn't earned. She doesn't train to get the abilities she just gets them from touching others. Seeing someone struggle and work for something makes it feel more earned.

As for Luke, he makes note of how easy that shot is in regards to size due to shooting womprats, and all Obi-Wan does is tell him to trust his feelings letting the force flow through him. Red Leader made a similar shot, so Luke making the same shot with some force magic in there to tip it over and do what they needed is beyond fine. Not to mention, if we want to be real sticklers we could always make the argument that there is another run with Luke making the trench run that was cut from the film. But, lets not. There is 3 years between ANH and ESB, that gives Luke time to go on adventures and to explore facets of the force and train himself with a lightsaber, and I don't know if we saw the same fight considering that Vader toys with him during their fight on Bespin until he decides to end it and chop Luke's hand off. The entire point of the fight was to show how unskilled and ready Luke was to fight Vader. There is an additional year between ESB and ROTJ, again giving Luke a chance to train and I know he saw Obi-Wan use a mind trick, I forget if he ever saw a force choke on screen, of course with the books and comics he likely had.

So in comparison Luke takes 4 years to go from farmboy with high potential to become a jedi knight/master. Rey goes from someone who didn't know the force existed to being a jedi master (based of Yoda's comment about how Rey had everything she needed in TLJ) in what amounts to 3 days to a week. It is again one of the reasons I so wish there was a time skip between TFA and TLJ to give Rey time to train and earn her abilities.

5 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I don't mind Rey having skills based off of her background, that only makes sense. Her flying the Falcon is iffy to me, mostly due to the high skill with there being nothing said to allude to her having those skills before in the film; however I did make the concession that maybe due to scavenging so often in those wrecks she'd know them well enough to fly in them...possibly. I do question how she knows how to swim coming from an entirely desert planet as we see her swim in TLJ, and I question how the heck she shot 3 ties with her first shot while manning the Falcon's guns especially when the previous film showed that she wasn't really used to using even a blaster.

Her skills with the force though, those are BS and are explained in such a way. The film paints it as the force giving her the abilities to make her Kylo's equal, which is some major level BS considering we've never seen the force act that way before and removes the effort the character needs to put in to get their strengths. The tie in book for TLJ explains it as she gets the force abilities and skills of those she touches, which again is not a rewarding way to get your abilities when you don't need to train to earn them. Had TLJ had a time skip or at least showed her doing actual training this would have made it all more believable/acceptable.

I personally think Rey's best moment is her silent introduction in TFA.

Her flying skills is explained in the book 'Before the Awakening' that was released at the same time as the movie. In her short story, it says that she has a flight simulator in her AT-AT and use it quite frequently. The story is also about her trying to build a ship to go out of Jakku, something she would not have done anyway because she doesn't actually want to leave, because she's waiting for her parents. Granted, it's in a book and not really explained in the movie except by her quote 'I'm a pilot!', but the explanation is still there. And with Star Wars, I accept to have my information outside of the movies, I actually quite like it in fact. But to each their own and I understand why someone would not agree with it. But it's still explained and that's what really matters. I also think that it's because she knows the place by scavanging them that she venture into the Ravager with the Falcon hopefully to lose her pursuer. Her being a ship part scavenger also explain why she is so skilled in mecanics, she knows a lot about ship and all their pieces.

Her swimming, yeah, I can't really explain that part. Probably a mistep from the director because we all take for granted that everyone can swim... I know I did because to be honest I never thought about it until you pointed it out.

As for her skill with the Force and why is the Force giving her the abilities. My theory is that Anakin really brought balance in the Force when he killed the Emperor. And now that balance is reestablished, the Force is trying to keep the balance. Snoke came out to counter Luke, and now Rey come out to counter Kylo. Snoke died, and then Luke died. I think that both the Jedi Order and the rule of 2 of the Sith was preventing the Force to balance itself. And my personnal theory is that Episode 9 will end with Rey and Kylo both dying, because the Force connected them. Yin and Yang.