1 minute ago, Frimmel said:Okay, then what is killing someone who hasn't done anything wrong yet on the justification that they'll do something wrong.
Preventing another Vader, obviously.
Sole reason Solo flopped
53 minutes ago, JJ48 said:
That seems like an awful lot of responsibility to place on a fan. It's the responsibility of producers to release content that attracts consumers. The consumer has no moral obligation to ensure that a particular franchise succeeds if other franchises are more appealing to him.
“Fans” tanked the RT ratio with bots.
”Fans” caused the only major backlash against TLJ.
“Fans” poisoned the entire IP for non-fans.
Yea I blame the fans. They don’t have a moral obligation to watch movies they don’t like. But it’s okay to mention to them that their poisonous nonsense might mean the end of the franchise they claim to care so much about.
6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:Preventing another Vader, obviously.
Are you trying to be funny with that? Because that's not funny. Are you seriously advocating for murdering kids in their sleep before they've done wrong? That is appalling.
24 minutes ago, Frimmel said:Are you trying to be funny with that? Because that's not funny. Are you seriously advocating for murdering kids in their sleep before they've done wrong? That is appalling.
Why do you keep calling that adult Sith a kid?
21 minutes ago, Frimmel said:Are you trying to be funny with that? Because that's not funny. Are you seriously advocating for murdering kids in their sleep before they've done wrong? That is appalling.
Yeah. At least Anakin had the decency to wake up the younglings before slaughtering them so they couldn't grow up to foil his master's plans.
13 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:Why do you keep calling that adult Sith a kid?
Why are you dodging the question? Is it okay to murder someone while they sleep before they've done wrong if they aren't a kid?
5 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:Yeah. At least Anakin had the decency to wake up the younglings before slaughtering them so they couldn't grow up to foil his master's plans.
I don't find that funny either. "While they sleep" should be read as "not in the process of doing evil."
Edited by Frimmel44 minutes ago, Frimmel said:That's the triumph of the OT. He doesn't give in to the anger. He faces the dark side for real and in danger of his life (not in some cave or temple) and doesn't give in. And by not giving in encourages his father to stand up and make a claim for his own redemption.
That's a guy who's going to EVER think he needs to murder his sleeping nephew? He's learned this lesson. And then he's not going to go out and try to save him? Not try to save others? Not try and correct his mistake? There's characters being fallible or coming up short and there's the nihilism in TLJ.
Well, he did give in to anger in RotJ, that's actually how he beat Vader. But he did managed to control himself to not give in totally and kill his father. He resisted the temptation, but it's not because one time you manage to resist an urge that suddenly you'll forever resist it for the rest of your life. The Skywalkers are emotional, that is their weakness and they can't get rid of it. Luke can control it, like he did again when dealing with his nephew, but he can't fully get rid of it.
I don't think he ever thought about killing his nephew, I think he was acting, like he said in TLJ, on pure instinct: He saw evil and his first instinct was to strike it down. Then, he realised what he was about to do and felt shame and guilt. It's not as if he went into the tent with his lightsaber on ready to strike Ben. He saw Ben falling more and more to the dark side, to the temptation, and went to finally confront him about it, not by killing him but by showing him that he's on the wrong path. If he was able to turn Vader to the light, surely he would be able to keep Ben on the light side. But then, before waking him, he took a look into Ben's mind to see how far he was, and that's when he saw how far Ben already was. Instinct kicked in and we know the rest. All the shame and guilt pushed him to isolate himself.
In his mind, he can't save Ben. From his point of view, he's the reason why Ben turned to dark side in the first place. Seeing him with his lightsaber on is what pushed him for good. Ben hates Luke. But I mean, really hate him. He would never listen to him. If Ben is to be saved, it must be from someone else. Just like Kenobi could never get Anakin back from the dark side, Luke could never get Kylo from it, and he knows it. Shame and guilt kept him hidden. I think it was said (can't remember where I saw it), that Ben was a troubled son, always susceptible to the dark side. Luke thought he could train him, show him the way of the jedi, and Leia thrusted him. But not only did he failed to keep him in the lightside, he's actually one of the main reason why he went to dark side in the first place, because of his stupid instinct. He probably thinks he will do more harm than good by staying.
When he went into isolation, the war was not already started. So if he thinks that he can't save Ben, if he's ashame of what he did, if he thinks that ultimately jedi do more harm than good, why would he come back? (It's reminiscent of the isolation of Yoda: Yoda failed to stop Palpatine once and then went into hiding for 22 years, not even wanting to train Luke at first because he was afraid he would turn like his father.) Then add to that many years that passed where he learned more about the Jedi history and failure and convincing himself that staying away is the right thing to do for the greater good. And you get a broken Luke like we had in The Last Jedi. A Luke that is not just a legendary flawless Jedi, but a human with his own weaknesses.
But ultimately, he does come back and do the most Jedi thing to do: He stop an army without even fighting. He sacrifice himself for the survival of his sister Resistance. And he ask for forgiveness to Ben. He admit to Ben that he failed him. I personally could not ask for a better, more perfect way for Luke to die.
1 hour ago, JJ48 said:Right, because that's the way temptation works: you reject it once and then never have to deal with it again your entire life.
I guess a LOT of addicts sure would love if it worked that way...
48 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:“Fans” tanked the RT ratio with bots.
”Fans” caused the only major backlash against TLJ.
“Fans” poisoned the entire IP for non-fans.
Yea I blame the fans. They don’t have a moral obligation to watch movies they don’t like. But it’s okay to mention to them that their poisonous nonsense might mean the end of the franchise they claim to care so much about.
Considering the fact that I just referred to a single fan, and was clearly responding to your response to Frimmel, I find it odd that you're suddenly jumping to a rant about toxic fans in general. Has Frimmel done any of the things you're accusing all fans of? Are you saying that you're not a fan, since you seem to have such a low opinion of anyone bearing that title?
Yes, toxic fans are a problem, and they need to be addressed. But not everyone who chooses not to see a movie is a toxic fan, just as not everyone who is a toxic fan is someone who chooses not to see the movie. If we start accusing others of being toxic just because they disagree with us, we run a real risk of becoming toxic ourselves.
25 minutes ago, JJ48 said:Has Frimmel done any of the things you're accusing all fans of?
Absolutely yes. But I’m not accusing all fans of it. It’s just enough that that is how fans are perceived by outsiders.
“I'm not real sure why I should be put out that this woman has a thin skin. Isn't she a strong independent modern woman ? “ -Frimmel
Edited by TasteTheRainbow34 minutes ago, Frimmel said:Why are you dodging the question? Is it okay to murder someone while they sleep before they've done wrong if they aren't a kid?
You keep axting like Luke actually tried to murder a sleeping child. Those are your words, not mine. And that did not happen in that movie. He didn’t try to murder anyone. He stopped, exactly like VI. Heck he removed himself from the whole situation probably to avoid being forced to kill Ben.
1 hour ago, Frimmel said:Okay, then what is killing someone who hasn't done anything wrong yet on the justification that they'll do something wrong? Sure looks like capitol punishment before the crime to me.
Saving lives.
6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:You keep axting like Luke actually tried to murder a sleeping child. Those are your words, not mine. And that did not happen in that movie. He didn’t try to murder anyone. He stopped, exactly like VI. Heck he removed himself from the whole situation probably to avoid being forced to kill Ben.
4 hours ago, Frimmel said:
I don’t quite get your point, but that an aw some Keep Digging gif! I’m stealing it.
6 hours ago, mazz0 said:I don’t quite get your point, but that an aw some Keep Digging gif! I’m stealing it.
Episode 6: Luke gets really close to chopping off his fathers head and joining palps, doesn’t do it at the last second.
Episode 8: Luke almost chops off his nephews’ head to prevent him from becoming another Vader, decided not to at the last second.
conclusion: Luke has really bad timing with making the right moral decisions.
I can't watch the video source at work, but this is a thing now.
That’s still just a rumor.
Not that I don’t think it can’t happen, but I would be very surprised if they don’t wait to see the numbers of Episode IX before making a move.
On 6/25/2018 at 5:31 AM, Frimmel said:Or do you not understand that after the cinematic travesty of TLJ and the bad-mouthing of fans who didn't like TLJ a ticket to "Solo" is just something I'm not buying.
I hadn't heard about the bad- mouthing of fans who didn't like TLJ, could you provide an example?
I just have an hard time believing that whatever bad-mouthing happened is even remotely comparable to the absolute brutality some people who didn't like TLJ have aimed at Disney, all of the cast and crew, as well as at people that didn't mind or (dare I say) even liked it.
If you think you're going to get a subsub-par product, by all means, don't waste your time and money. I just wouldn't take whatever Star Wars associated person said disparaging the fans personally. Some "fans" have behaved in absolutely reprehensible ways as a response to a movie for God's sake, and the creators have every right and reason to fire back. Just understand that if you aren't one of the people doing awful things, whatever the creators are saying back probably aren't intended for you.
20 hours ago, Red Castle said:That’s still just a rumor.
Not that I don’t think it can’t happen, but I would be very surprised if they don’t wait to see the numbers of Episode IX before making a move.
These rumors are piling up. Same source used as the other, but more explanation in this article.
On 6/22/2018 at 3:05 PM, ViscerothSWG said:Just saw something about all future spin off movies being cancelled. Is it true?
Also, I haven't seen TLJ or Solo yet, but seeing this was depressing.
Do you know the story behind those?
Because that's got to be one of the most misinterpreted images I've ever come across.
43 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:These rumors are piling up. Same source used as the other, but more explanation in this article.
No matter how many site reports a rumor, especially when it is coming from the same source, it is still just a rumor.
And your last link clearly have something against Kathleen, he’s not really objective in his report.
9 minutes ago, Red Castle said:No matter how many site reports a rumor, especially when it is coming from the same source, it is still just a rumor.
And your last link clearly have something against Kathleen, he’s not really objective in his report.
"Not really objective" is a concise summary of that entire website.
Just now, Firespray-32 said:"Not really objective" is a concise summary of that entire website.
Lol I would not know, I just read this article and thought “My god, this guy really have something against Kathleen!”
Back on topic, the main reason Solo failed is because Disney expected it to be bad and barely advertised it. In the UK the only adverts I encountered was some horrific radio advert narrated by four-year-olds and some abominable car manufacturer tie-in. We're talking the sort of advertising quality that dissuades you from going to see something.
If Disney's reevaluating anything it's the absolute mess their marketing team made of this.
1 hour ago, Firespray-32 said:Back on topic, the main reason Solo failed is because Disney expected it to be bad and barely advertised it. In the UK the only adverts I encountered was some horrific radio advert narrated by four-year-olds and some abominable car manufacturer tie-in. We're talking the sort of advertising quality that dissuades you from going to see something.
If Disney's reevaluating anything it's the absolute mess their marketing team made of this.
Yep. From the beginning it was clear that it would not break records.
First, the idea of a movie on Solo but with another actor playing Solo instead of Harrison was not very welcome.
Then story came out that the new actor needed a coach actor, giving even more worry to the idea that Solo would be played by another actor.
Then the director mess, with the rumor that the first team was making Han Solo into an Ace Ventura movie.
Then reshoots almost doubling production cost and without pushing the release date.
Shy advertising combined with a released very close to Avenger and Deadpool.
All this makes me believe that a lot of fans and general public decided to take a wait and see approach and wait for the Blu-Ray release to watch it.