3 hours ago, Jarval said:

The white reload action isn't insignificant I suspect. That's going to leave the Punisher's dial a lot more open - and given its got both a 4k and a 0 stop it's got some interesting options available to it.

The reload action is a trash action to begin with. Add in the fact most missiles have multiple shots on them by default I don't expect to be reloading my missiles unless I am already winning by a significant margin. If the enemy lets me fire 2 or 3 missiles with a tie punisher then lets me have a turn to reload and fire more a missile after that then the game was truly in hand anyways.

Don't overvalue an action that will rarely ever be used and when it is its a horrid action to take anyways.

5 minutes ago, Icelom said:

The reload action is a trash action to begin with. Add in the fact most missiles have multiple shots on them by default I don't expect to be reloading my missiles unless I am already winning by a significant margin. If the enemy lets me fire 2 or 3 missiles with a tie punisher then lets me have a turn to reload and fire more a missile after that then the game was truly in hand anyways.

Don't overvalue an action that will rarely ever be used and when it is its a horrid action to take anyways.

And don't undervalue it, either. Deathrain's ability to reload bombs is going to be huge, as those normally have very limited payloads. Previously, you'd be able to use that ability maybe 2-3 times per game. Now, they practically have a Bomblet Generator for Proton Bombs. Drop a bomb, take a free reload action to recharge it, and repeat ad infinitum. They're also one of the only pilots I'm aware of who can take actions during the Devices phase.

A white Reload action also makes them better candidates for the more expensive ordnance with limited shots.

4 hours ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

No, the Tie Bomber actually has the linked action as well AND a special ability when dropping bombs. In 1.0 there is no reason why you should take Tie Punishers because of the Tie Bomber.

So I fear the Tie Punisher would need every help to dont fall behind, again.

Heavy bomber. I said heavy bomber.

Plus boost lock is better than barrel roll lock

With a medium base, a 3-bank left followed by a 1-bank boost right equates to about a 6.5 straight for a small ship - that's a long way into the board - and then they could Lock some lower-PS ship that went too fast on the first turn ?

I guess locking higher pilots will be an issue again, unless Long Range Sensors are in 2.0 as well...

Look at the **** thing! It is like some crazy mechanic welded 4 bombers together.

If any SW ship warranted the capacity to pull off a Macross missile moneyshot, it is this one.

11 minutes ago, TheRealStarkiller said:

I guess locking higher pilots will be an issue again, unless Long Range Sensors are in 2.0 as well...

LRS aren’t a separate upgrade card, the effect is baked into the e-wing though.

3 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

LRS aren’t a separate upgrade card, the effect is baked into the e-wing though.

But Redline is I5 and he will probably have an offensive ability related to locks.

That's pretty great. Proton torps to the face with FCS.

42 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

LRS aren’t a separate upgrade card, the effect is baked into the e-wing though.

Which is useless. We need to get LRS back or to get some ordnance that requires focus instead of a lock.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Which is useless. We need to get LRS back or to get some ordnance that requires focus instead of a lock.

I'm fine with the way things are now.

Ps is less of an issue, and ordnance seems pretty strong, but with the lock requirement it has a natural weakness.

Also, it helps to give ordnance carriers an identity. Having a linked lock action means you are way better at shooting missiles. There is now a difference between how an xwing shoots torpedoes, and how a tie bomber does.

With more focus based ordnance that difference would diminish.

6 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

LRS aren’t a separate upgrade card, the effect is baked into the e-wing though.

Which is pain in the *** for ppl like me who use LRS to actually fly Tie Bombers as Ordnance Platform and Bomber.

I like to use four scimitar squadron Boys and LRS was the fix Card I waited for years to actually use them like I always wanted to use them.

6 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Which is useless. We need to get LRS back or to get some ordnance that requires focus instead of a lock.

Im not even a friend of unguided rockets, because they don't feel like using ordnance. They more feel like having a 3 dice attack vessel. I prefer having the target lock requirement but also means to get the lock for the first strike without help from support ships. Support ships should provide buffs or debuffs, so help to increase damage or defence, but should not be neccessary to set up an ordnance attack which the ordnance carriers should be able to do by themselves at any circumstances.

Here is a fresh idea for a modification that works into this direction:

Optical Scanners: You may only lock targets within your front arc, ignoring range restrictions.

2 hours ago, TheRealStarkiller said:

Optical Scanners: You may only lock targets within your front arc, ignoring range restrictions.

Yeah. Thats the feeling when you fly with the Tie Bomber in TIE FIGHTER the computer game: Fly towards your targets, lock them from far, then try to soften them up or destroy them with Proton Torpedoes or Concussion Missiles, before entering the brawl. With LRS you needed to get distance to get a lock for a second attack, assuming you have Extra Munitions, ... with your idea its similar, you cant just fly away and lock, you must face your target. Which I like pretty much.

This feels quite imperial to me. Straightforward and sophisticated! LIKE!

I don't think that there will be any LRS for the Tie Punisher or Tie Bomber. We will have to do it old school. There won't be the PS race anymore, so it won't be as bad. We just have to learn to fly again. I've flown Scimitar Bombers to good effect before LRS and GC and all that nonesense. I came in 3rd at a Store Champ back in the day. We just have to learn a few tricks on how to get those TL. There were some great ideas before, especially Deadhorse's ones that I totally stole.

I also don't agree that reload is a bad action. If you take a Tie Punisher as a toolbox ship with different loadouts, you might need those loadouts again. Such as Ion Missile. If it's the thing that really keeps the Falcon (or whatever ship) tied down, then you need as many of those as you can. Also, the Proton Torp only has 2 charges. That's one I can see using a lot. There will be rounds where you won't have a shot, even with a Boost. Just reload then.

Punisher might also be one of those ships where they vary the price of the upgrades. Perhaps the Punisher itself isn't cheaper (the baseline platform has a lot of HP and and good actions), but all the missiles and torpedoes are cheaper. Maybe Proton Torpedos on an X-Wing are 8 points, but 5 or 6 on a Punisher, since they probably don't want the naked chassis to be too affordable.

I think that'd be a great direction. This is a ship which isn't going to be good without ordnance, but if the ordnance is too expensive, the naked chassis has to be too cheap. So make the ordnance cheaper.

22 hours ago, Icelom said:

The reload action is a trash action to begin with. Add in the fact most missiles have multiple shots on them by default I don't expect to be reloading my missiles unless I am already winning by a significant margin. If the enemy lets me fire 2 or 3 missiles with a tie punisher then lets me have a turn to reload and fire more a missile after that then the game was truly in hand anyways.

Don't overvalue an action that will rarely ever be used and when it is its a horrid action to take anyways.

It is certainly going to have uses. If a TIE punisher can take talents, Saturation Salvo will force two defense dice to be rerolled with minimal cost.

They should have given the Punisher a reload based ability. Maybe a bonus charge on any munition after a reload action (so two total per action). Maybe a free reload on a munition you didn't use after using any other munition. Maybe the ability to spend a charge from any munition when you would spend a charge. Or maybe just increase the max charge on each munition equipped.

I just seems odd that such a purpose built ship has no ability that helps it with its purpose.

15 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

They should have given the Punisher a reload based ability. Maybe a bonus charge on any munition after a reload action (so two total per action). Maybe a free reload on a munition you didn't use after using any other munition. Maybe the ability to spend a charge from any munition when you would spend a charge. Or maybe just increase the max charge on each munition equipped.

I just seems odd that such a purpose built ship has no ability that helps it with its purpose.

*hugs*

Boost->Lock on a medium base seems like a vast improvement.

Ability to adv sensors + stop seems a good improvement too.

Deathrain's ability is pretty good to.

I don't think they really need a built-in ability.

28 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

I just seems odd that such a purpose built ship has no ability that helps it with its purpose.

This is 2.0. Not everything needs special abilities. The power level is down. The special ability is the ability to use existing tools (ordnance and bombs).

3 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

This is 2.0. Not everything needs special abilities. The power level is down. The special ability is the ability to use existing tools (ordnance and bombs).  

Leave the boring generic chassis to the rebel terrorists! The Empire demands perfection from our advanced weapons division!

6 hours ago, heychadwick said:

We will have to do it old school. There won't be the PS race anymore, so it won't be as bad. We just have to learn to fly again. I've flown Scimitar Bombers to good effect before LRS and GC and all that nonesense. I came in 3rd at a Store Champ back in the day....

Oldskool don't worked back then and it wont Work out in 2.0

I bought 4 TIE Bombers back then when they came out. It was an uphill fight in any match. And you could boil the game experience down to wether you are able to fire ordnance with all of your bombers in the first round of combat or not. Beides that, it don't feels good if you can't get a target lock.

With LRS however, when you are able to lock in a target in round 1, you influence your Opponents decision process. He could let the locked vessel behind and take influence in your acrions: so you Switch target? if it is too near you cant lock any more... This leads to a very pokerlike game which is so much more fun then without LRS.

Tl;dr: Tie Bombers with LRS is much more fun.

1 minute ago, TheRealStarkiller said:

Oldskool don't worked back then and it wont Work out in 2.0

I bought 4 TIE Bombers back then when they came out. It was an uphill fight in any match. And you could boil the game experience down to wether you are able to fire ordnance with all of your bombers in the first round of combat or not. Beides that, it don't feels good if you can't get a target lock.

With LRS however, when you are able to lock in a target in round 1, you influence your Opponents decision process. He could let the locked vessel behind and take influence in your acrions: so you Switch target? if it is too near you cant lock any more... This leads to a very pokerlike game which is so much more fun then without LRS.

Tl;dr: Tie Bombers with LRS is much more fun.

I'll disagree with you there. I won over 50% of my matches with my 4 Tie Bombers. Just practice.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

I'll disagree with you there. I won over 50% of my matches with my 4 Tie Bombers. Just practice.

If this would be a thing, it would be meta;)

My gaming experience is that 4 Bombers w/o LRS are frustration in Most cases or just no fun.

I had some Tournament success with 4 naked bombers and 3 Tie Fighters, when I just gave up on ordnance, pretending there is non in the Game

Just now, TheRealStarkiller said:

If this would be a thing, it would be meta;)

My gaming experience is that 4 Bombers w/o LRS are frustration in Most cases or just no fun.

I had some Tournament success with 4 naked bombers and 3 Tie Fighters, when I just gave up on ordnance, pretending there is non in the Game

The game changed with the power levels. It was fine before things got stupid. With 2.0 it will be OK again.