Seriously, there is no build-in functionality in the new Punisher?

I am a bit underwhelmed, because this is the platform that needs a huge buff to make its way on the tables.

So, Alex talked about the built-in function as the manly imperial faction specialty because they have R&D and vehicles and weapons designed to do one job freaking good. And then the Tie Punisher gets nothing special...

As for the Punisher and his 4 units of launcher/ammo storage I would empathize the huge amount of ammo, ans thus by enhancing reload:

Automated Ammo Racks: When you reload you are not assigned a weapons disabled token. After attacking you might perform a red reload action.

Eh.

They are the only heavy bomber with a linked action, and a really good one at that.

They also have a lot of reposition abilities.

I'm hoping they have some imperial only modifications, but other than that, they are great.

Your suggestion is awesome too, and I think it wouldn't break the game. But they don't need it.

How do you know they don't have a configuration card that does something special? Did they spoil the whole Imperial conversion box?

6 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

How do you know they don't have a configuration card that does something special? Did they spoil the whole Imperial conversion box?

Occam's razor. It would be simpler to put it on the card.

18 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Eh.

They are the only heavy bomber with a linked action, and a really good one at that.

They also have a lot of reposition abilities.

I'm hoping they have some imperial only modifications, but other than that, they are great.

Your suggestion is awesome too, and I think it wouldn't break the game. But they don't need it.

No, the Tie Bomber actually has the linked action as well AND a special ability when dropping bombs. In 1.0 there is no reason why you should take Tie Punishers because of the Tie Bomber.

So I fear the Tie Punisher would need every help to dont fall behind, again.

The white reload action isn't insignificant I suspect. That's going to leave the Punisher's dial a lot more open - and given its got both a 4k and a 0 stop it's got some interesting options available to it.

... and maybe it got a relative points reduction rather than a super-buff.

I'm looking forward to Boost>Lock.

Don't easily apply 1.0 thinking to the comparison bomber/punisher. After all, we should not forget: The punisher was moved to the medium base, differentiating them from the bomber even further:

1) They can take "Medium base only"-upgrades

2) They are REALLY fast with boost that way

3) They are more resistant to Ion and Tractors, if those become a thing.

4) It's difficult to rule-of-eleven them

5) Their arc is wider (huge for alpha-strikers!)

Furthermore: we'll have to wait and see the pilot abilities.

Another thing: we don't know the slots yet. It may be that either or both of them have a gunner slot and bombardier would give them the 2 straight option to drop bombs.

Configs could be interesting, and could add in all the various names for this ship that we've seen before.

I knew this was going to happen before they released anything. There was a thread where people were speculating and they were dreaming crazy powerful stuff. No one would be satisfied unless it was crazy over powered. I warned people that it didn't need much to get by, but I knew people would not be happy.

The Tie Punisher doesn't really need some sort of crazy super power to make it useful. The real trick is going to be cost and cost of the ordnance to load it up. I'm sure you can probably load up the new Tie Punisher with a ton of different ordnance upgrades for the price of what a base one costed before. This would give you a ship with a lot of tools (Ion Missiles, Ion Torpedoes, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles) for super cheap.....AND the RELOAD action. That's a WHITE action.

It's not that the Tie Punisher needs something crazy to make it powerful. It just needs to be affordable and to do what it currently does - launch a lot of ordnance at targets.

Remember that 2.0 power levels have dropped. You can expect the Tie Punisher to be bumped up to 1.0 standards in the 2.0 game.

They only spoiled dethrain at ps4. Maybe redline will be at ps5. With that ps and his boost +tl it could be very good....if he will exist

6 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I knew this was going to happen before they released anything. There was a thread where people were speculating and they were dreaming crazy powerful stuff. No one would be satisfied unless it was crazy over powered. I warned people that it didn't need much to get by, but I knew people would not be happy.

The Tie Punisher doesn't really need some sort of crazy super power to make it useful. The real trick is going to be cost and cost of the ordnance to load it up. I'm sure you can probably load up the new Tie Punisher with a ton of different ordnance upgrades for the price of what a base one costed before. This would give you a ship with a lot of tools (Ion Missiles, Ion Torpedoes, Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles) for super cheap.....AND the RELOAD action. That's a WHITE action.

It's not that the Tie Punisher needs something crazy to make it powerful. It just needs to be affordable and to do what it currently does - launch a lot of ordnance at targets.

Remember that 2.0 power levels have dropped. You can expect the Tie Punisher to be bumped up to 1.0 standards in the 2.0 game.

... as if a special ability like I outlined would make it super crazy powerful. Technically the Tie Punisher is a beast, capable of vaporizing capital ships and enough ammo to do so. The only feature that represents its 4 massive compartments is a white reload action - same as the Gunboat. This is simply not enough to represent a ship like the Tie Punisher for my taste. I want to get the feeling of a massive ordnance platform with nearly infinite ammo this beast should be.

Right now I don't see why I should take this over a Tie Bomber, which can do fancy bomb drops - I really like this ability

5 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

... as if a special ability like I outlined would make it super crazy powerful. Technically the Tie Punisher is a beast, capable of vaporizing capital ships and enough ammo to do so. The only feature that represents its 4 massive compartments is a white reload action - same as the Gunboat. This is simply not enough to represent a ship like the Tie Punisher for my taste. I want to get the feeling of a massive ordnance platform with nearly infinite ammo this beast should be.

Right now I don't see why I should take this over a Tie Bomber, which can do fancy bomb drops - I really like this ability  

Actually, I do think what you recommended is too powerful. Maybe not "super crazy powerful" like what some of the other people recommended in the other thread, but I do think too powerful. I will say that I think Deathrain will be able to fire a missile and then do the reload. Sure, you get weapons disabled, but you just fired already.

The 4 massive compartments are represented by more than just a white reload. They will be represented in the price of the ordnance. When others will pay 4 pts for ordnance, the Tie Punisher will probably be paying 1 or 2 pts for various upgrades. Remember that all upgrades will cost different based on the ship. This is going to be the "special power" of the Tie Punisher. You will get to load up the Punisher with all sorts of ordnance for a fraction of the cost of 1.0. That's what the Tie Punisher should be. It doesn't need special super powers. It just needs lots and lots of ordnance.

12 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

... as if a special ability like I outlined would make it super crazy powerful. Technically the Tie Punisher is a beast, capable of vaporizing capital ships and enough ammo to do so. The only feature that represents its 4 massive compartments is a white reload action - same as the Gunboat. This is simply not enough to represent a ship like the Tie Punisher for my taste. I want to get the feeling of a massive ordnance platform with nearly infinite ammo this beast should be.

Right now I don't see why I should take this over a Tie Bomber, which can do fancy bomb drops - I really like this ability

I liked the idea of being able to select any Missile or Torp of equal or lower points cost when using the reload action for a Punisher.

It has loads of pods, so it could choose the most appropriate ordinance for the job.

Doesn't increase its power very much but does make it more distinct.

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Actually, I do think what you recommended is too powerful. Maybe not "super crazy powerful" like what some of the other people recommended in the other thread, but I do think too powerful. I will say that I think Deathrain will be able to fire a missile and then do the reload. Sure, you get weapons disabled, but you just fired already.

The 4 massive compartments are represented by more than just a white reload. They will be represented in the price of the ordnance. When others will pay 4 pts for ordnance, the Tie Punisher will probably be paying 1 or 2 pts for various upgrades. Remember that all upgrades will cost different based on the ship. This is going to be the "special power" of the Tie Punisher. You will get to load up the Punisher with all sorts of ordnance for a fraction of the cost of 1.0. That's what the Tie Punisher should be. It doesn't need special super powers. It just needs lots and lots of ordnance.

If this wil be case, like ordnance is REALLY cheap with the Punisher, I am happy for now

4 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

If this wil be case, like ordnance is REALLY cheap with the Punisher, I am happy for now

I think the difference will be in what ordnance and bombs it can take. I'm thinking they are going to change things so that the Tie Bomber is more about......bombs. It might only have one Torp and Missile slot, but gain 2 or more Bomb slots. I am thinking the Punisher is going to have a lot of options and that they will be really cheap. So, load up with about every type of ordnance you can and use whatever tool is best at that time. THAT is what should be the "super power" of the Tie Punisher. Run out of ammo? Just do a white reload action.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

I think the difference will be in what ordnance and bombs it can take. I'm thinking they are going to change things so that the Tie Bomber is more about......bombs. It might only have one Torp and Missile slot, but gain 2 or more Bomb slots. I am thinking the Punisher is going to have a lot of options and that they will be really cheap. So, load up with about every type of ordnance you can and use whatever tool is best at that time. THAT is what should be the "super power" of the Tie Punisher. Run out of ammo? Just do a white reload action.

Ok, sounds good enough for me.

Now I hope the Tie Aggressor will get a gunner slot ... thats a different topic I know ...

But finally all my favourite ships will be gathered into a single faction ... MY faction ... I want them to be good enough to fly them all ;D

Also, I think the TIE Punisher will be an ideal carrier for Saturation Salvo, given its ability to disengage and its white reload action.

Of course, the Gunboat sports similar features. But it does not have bombs (so it cant cover its rear while running/slamming away) and no k-Turn.

So, I forsee the following:

Bombers: Actual bombers, quite light, not many missiles & rockets (probably just proton torps), part of a swarm or flanking - probably won't get many non-bomb reloads in

Punisher: Brawler. Go straight at the enemy, unload your payload, drop bombs before kturning, reload, reengage

Gunboat: Alpha strike, then circle them like vultures while reloading.

2 minutes ago, MaxPower said:

Also, I think the TIE Punisher will be an ideal carrier for Saturation Salvo  , given its ability to disengage and its white reload action.

Of course, the Gunboat sports similar features. But it does not have bombs (so it cant cover its rear while running/slamming away) and no k-Turn.

So, I forsee the following:

Bombers: Actual bombers, quite light, not many missiles & rockets (probably just proton torps), part of a swarm or flanking - probably won't get many non-bomb reloads in

Punisher: Brawler. Go straight at the enemy, unload your payload, drop bombs before kturning, reload, reengage

Gunboat: Alpha strike, then circle them like vultures while reloading.

If the pilots would have access to a talent slot, Saturation Salvo would be the trick.

Does reload refresh one charge of a single card or one charge of all cards equipped?

15 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

Does reload refresh one charge of a single card or one charge of all cards equipped?

Just one. Still, that's good enough.

Tie punisher will still be able to launch bombs, though the medium base will mean no launch and 1 forward as you still get in your own blast. Needs to be fully spoiled with potential upgrades to know it's best uses though.

19 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I think the difference will be in what ordnance and bombs it can take. I'm thinking they are going to change things so that the Tie Bomber is more about......bombs. It might only have one Torp and Missile slot, but gain 2 or more Bomb slots. I am thinking the Punisher is going to have a lot of options and that they will be really cheap. So, load up with about every type of ordnance you can and use whatever tool is best at that time. THAT is what should be the "super power" of the Tie Punisher. Run out of ammo? Just do a white reload action.

I don't think they'll change the bomber that much.

They might remove the second torpedo slot, but I don't think they'll add a bomb slot as charges and reload will mean that it gets to drop multiple bombs anyway, and the bomber as one trick pony vs the punisher as toolbox idea kind of needs the bomber to not be drowning in options after it hist the table. the second missile slot will probably be safe unless unguided rockets is also going away.

Also I think the punisher's price break on munitions should come with a proportionate deliberate over- price on the ship itself so that you only get an real price break if you equip more than one munition, but your second + one can be free or darn close (for example if fair price for the Punisher's stats is 40 points, and a typical munition upgrade costs 6 points, the Punisher could cost 45 points and have a -5 point to the cost of all torpedo, missile, or bomb upgrades.) That way you really don't care if most of your munitions don't get used, as long as one or two do their job the whole set is payed for.

I don't have high hopes for generic punishers, but Deathrain looks fantastic. He can Drop or Launch a bomb, do a boost into a linked target lock action, blue move away the stress, and finish up with a handy focus.

50 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

If the pilots would have access to a talent slot, Saturation Salvo would be the trick.

Does reload refresh one charge of a single card or one charge of all cards equipped?

Hm... saturation salvo should even be the Tie Punisher s special ability, not a Talent.

This would be a very well representation of having 4 launchers firing simultaniously.

I hole there will be a System Upgrade like this, that works like saturation salvo:

Synchronized Launchers: tie Punisher only

It's likely the only heavy bomber with system. It's the only heavy bomber with boost and it links to lock. Deathrain can bomb boost lock focus in a single round.

Price is the kicker as it always has been. The 1e Punisher isn't inherently bad it's simply wildly overpriced.