1 hour ago, Frostthorn said:

Beyond happy both of those items are gone come 2.0

I don't think anyone isn't. A game where more lists are competitive is better for both casual and tournament players.

I am still waiting on my Saw's Renegades and Reaper Pre-Order. What were the unknown cards? The "Thr*** Cor***"?

I've been messing with this:

Cavern Angels Zealot (22)
Selflessness (1)
Renegade Refit (-2)
R4-D6 (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Cavern Angels Zealot (22)
Crack Shot (1)
Renegade Refit (-2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Cavern Angels Zealot (22)
Crack Shot (1)
Renegade Refit (-2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Cavern Angels Zealot (22)
Crack Shot (1)
Renegade Refit (-2)
Flight-Assist Astromech (1)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

So far I'm really liking having selflessness in the list. It can save a ship from dying and losing out on a shot which can be huge at low PS. I'm taking it to a store champs this weekend so we'll see how it does against the field.

How many Renegade Refit and Servomotor S-Foils are in this pack?

2 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Oh man, that would be crazy if they did a last FAQ right before 2.0 dropped that addressed Harps, TLT, Ghosts, etc. People would be pulling their hair out!

That would be great for 1.0, but a pretty bad business call. After all, the better they make 1.0, the more people will remain and not upgrade.

9 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

How many Renegade Refit and Servomotor S-Foils are in this pack?

3

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Awesome to hear! How did it do?

Well, I'm trying 5trikers versus a quintet of rookies in essentially a rerun of scarif next week. I guess it'd only be appropriate for you to try out FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS (now with all the Vaksai fixin's) against their rebel counterpart....

Also looking forward to experimenting with the Striker That Ate All The Pies.

I Owned my Cousin flying 2 Tie Defenders. (Countess Ryad and 1 Glaive Squadron Pilot) Tie/X7 x2 PTL x2 (Carnor Jax) Opportunist. 100 points and I still kicked his ***. By the Time He had me down to 3 ships i had already wiped out everyone but The Countess. Within 2 turns he was dead with 1 more ship lost. First Time I've beaten his Royal/Ties Build!

Posted as a reply but forgot to hit the Quote button...

3 hours ago, LordBlades said:

You know what happens when I 'jump up and down on my 'I win' button? I win, and winning is fun

On a more serious note, the OP asked how the X-wings were performing and how they perform vs. TLTs and Harpoons is relevant to the question, since both are here to stay in X-wing 1.0 as it's highly unlikely FFG will issue any additional FAQs for 1.0.

Yeah that makes me sad. I'd love 1 last Eratta, and for FFG to sell a pack of Eratta Cards as one last "Thank You" to those of us who will still play 1.0 (In our play group we have a Phones off, no devices rule so 2.0...). But you have a Valid point. I think I was lucky my cousin used the Build he always does against me playing X-wings (He said if he could take out my 3 T-70 build 5 PS2 pilots should be easy peasy). I'm lucky he didn't use TLT or Harpoons.

2 minutes ago, Aurianna De'Chardains said:

(In our play group we have a Phones off, no devices rule so 2.0...)

This doesn't change in 2.0. You don't actually need devices (or a computer, or the pdf) during the game.

Just now, Dax12387 said:

This doesn't change in 2.0. You don't actually need devices (or a computer, or the pdf) during the game.

But then doesn't that limit us to just the quick build lists? I mean how do we figure the points cost for Squadrons without the app?

Just now, Aurianna De'Chardains said:

But then doesn't that limit us to just the quick build lists? I mean how do we figure the points cost for Squadrons without the app?

Either you print out your list or just build it in the builder and then bring the valid cards with you. Make sure to write down the points of each ship for half point values though.

Just now, MaxPower said:

Either you print out your list or just build it in the builder and then bring the valid cards with you. Make sure to write down the points of each ship for half point values though.

This is true. But at this stage I'd have to get two core sets (I need 2 Damage decks 3 players in our group use my spare TFA Damage deck when we play), and between 2-3 Upgrade kits Per faction (Maybe only one for FO), and then what do I do with over 100 pages of upgrade cards, about the same with pilot cards? Plus all of the Cardboard for bases, tokens, and dials. I look at all my cards, My Plano case full of chits, dials, etc. And I just can't see myself never using them again. Over time I'm sure if the New ships don't suck up all my money I could get upgrade kits. But I'll stay with 1.0 for the 1st year, and just make cards, & Chits for the new stuff like the Scum Millennial Falcon (Sorry I heard that joke and loved it). If the game is doing great and I can get a Couple Core sets and Upgrade kits as I go. Though I'm still not a big fan of the Idea that Points values can be changed on the Fly between Regular, Event, and Tournament play.

4 hours ago, MajorJuggler said:

To be fair to the developers, I don't think it was known to be OP before release. During playtesting they had someone else running the calculations on how cost effective it would be, and got input that it was OK. After it was announced I ran my own numbers (I have never been in playtesting), and came to a very different conclusion. But the developers' hands were tied by that point. I agree that some sort of errata would have been appropriate several months in, once it became clear to the mainstream that it was too good.

TLT is clearly the most powerful turret.

But is TLT overpowered?

In the absence of Miranda or Ghost shenanigans, is TLT really broken? I've never found it to be so, and, if not, that suggests that Miranda (of course) and Ghost shenanigans are really the problem, doesn't it?

(Note that I'm not saying that TLT's ubiquity isn't annoying, and I'm not saying that it couldn't have been costed at 7 and still been played. I'm just saying that TLT itself -- in the absence of known-broken list-mates -- is not "overpowered.")

5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

TLT is clearly the most powerful turret.

But is TLT overpowered?

In the absence of Miranda or Ghost shenanigans, is TLT really broken? I've never found it to be so, and, if not, that suggests that Miranda (of course) and Ghost shenanigans are really the problem, doesn't it?

(Note that I'm not saying that TLT's ubiquity isn't annoying, and I'm not saying that it couldn't have been costed at 7 and still been played. I'm just saying that TLT itself -- in the absence of known-broken list-mates -- is not "overpowered.")

Later content like the ghost double tap was even greater power creep, but even at the time of initial release TLT Y-wings were quantifiable power creep. It made the previous top-tier generic jousters essentially obsolete (TIE Fighters, Z-95), and immediately started pushing them out the meta.

7 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Later content like the ghost double tap was even greater power creep, but even at the time of initial release TLT Y-wings were quantifiable power creep. It made the previous top-tier generic jousters essentially obsolete (TIE Fighters, Z-95), and immediately started pushing them out the meta.

I have somehow never lost to quad-TLTs, so maybe I just don't have the needed perspective. It was an unbelievably shallow list.

I don't quarrel with the presence of power-creep in the game -- God knows I don't -- but I don't accept that "top-tier" lists being displaced is evidence of power-creep, especially when the supposed power-creep lists didn't replace them. I mean, quad-TLTs had a couple of weeks to "shine" (like a polished turd), but that's all it took for people to figure out how to beat them pretty consistently ... at which point they were gone until they could be piled on to objectively OP stuff.

Let me try again: if Miranda and Ghost-shenanigans didn't exist, would we see more than one or two TLTs in a whole tournament? If not, why not, if TLTs themselves are OP? There are plenty of carriers beyond Miranda and Ghost.

Again, I'm not saying TLTs aren't strong, I'm not saying they're not annoying, and I'm not saying I wouldn't mind travelling back in time for a second whack at playtesting them ... I'm just saying IMO they're not overpowered.

51 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I have somehow never lost to quad-TLTs, so maybe I just don't have the needed perspective. It was an unbelievably shallow list.

I don't quarrel with the presence of power-creep in the game -- God knows I don't -- but I don't accept that "top-tier" lists being displaced is evidence of power-creep, especially when the supposed power-creep lists didn't replace them. I mean, quad-TLTs had a couple of weeks to "shine" (like a polished turd), but that's all it took for people to figure out how to beat them pretty consistently ... at which point they were gone until they could be piled on to objectively OP stuff.

Let me try again: if Miranda and Ghost-shenanigans didn't exist, would we see more than one or two TLTs in a whole tournament? If not, why not, if TLTs themselves are OP? There are plenty of carriers beyond Miranda and Ghost.

Again, I'm not saying TLTs aren't strong, I'm not saying they're not annoying, and I'm not saying I wouldn't mind travelling back in time for a second whack at playtesting them ... I'm just saying IMO they're not overpowered.

There's lots of things that I haven't lost to too, but it's still just anecdotal evidence. Round 8 of Worlds 2015 (only year I went), I beat a Chewie / Leebo list with PS8 Brobots. I had never lost to Chewie / Leebo. He had never lost to BroBots. One of us had to lose though.

Quad TLT is a turd of a list to fly but if you look at the tournament data you might be surprised at how much later it continued to occasionally pop up. You can't really say the same of the lists it displaced. Dig through the tournament data to verify, but I recall it winning a nontrivial tournament or two well beyond its prime. Another single data point, I think it was about a year (or two?) later, Ira took it to worlds with 0 practice and almost made the cut.

In any event.

The powercreep has obviously continued past wave 7. Asking if wave 7 TLT would be top-tier in a wave 14 environment without Miranda/Ghost is a very different question than if TLT Y-wings were powercreep relative to what came before it. You are of course entitled to your opinion that TLT was fine at the time, as many playtesters also thought. It's a rather redundant point now with 2.0, unless we are trying to improve design insight to make 2.0 a better place.

I flew 3 FFA Crack Shot Zealots and Magva Yarro in the U-wing against 4 Zealots and an A-wing bumper car. I lost but it was glorious.

The U-wing is still a 1.0 U-wing so it wasn't great, but I see the potential for Magva curbing ordnance carriers a bit.

The X-wings though were fantastic to fly. Crackshot for free really gives the babies some bite. I'm keen to try out some of the aces with their new tech now.

First on the list is Dagobah Luke.

3 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

TLT is clearly the most powerful turret.

But is TLT overpowered?

In the absence of Miranda or Ghost shenanigans, is TLT really broken? I've never found it to be so, and, if not, that suggests that Miranda (of course) and Ghost shenanigans are really the problem, doesn't it?

(Note that I'm not saying that TLT's ubiquity isn't annoying, and I'm not saying that it couldn't have been costed at 7 and still been played. I'm just saying that TLT itself -- in the absence of known-broken list-mates -- is not "overpowered.")

Agree 100%. I’m really interested in how the dev team has balanced Y-Wings and the HWK without TLTs in play.

I love TLTs, but really only for those ships.

TLT simply removed certain lists and basically certain ships from the game. I flew 4B1Z through the entire Phantom Menace fat boosting turrets and Palp Aces. Only gave up when TLT became a thing. I probably didn't lose much harder but the losses were more soul destroying.

EDIT: This was in response to a comment on 2.0, I clearly forgot what thread I'm in.

Y-Wings do have power with things like Veteran Turret Gunner. Defensive mods aren't as nuts, so a two-attack primary followed up by Dorsal Turret or ICT is pretty good, actually. Probably dependent on how much VTG costs but if not too bad, it's not unlike their title from 1st edition but better- since they can turn the turret, ensuring at least one shot gets on the priority target.

Casual night at the FLGS tonight.

Went 4-1 with:

• Wedge, Expertise
• Luke with Wingman
• 2X Rookies
• all 4 with Refit, Servos, IA

Can't remember the exact lists I played against but basics were (I'm not sure what happened but almost everyone tonight brought mirror scum lists and I'm one of the few that flies Rebels):

• Nim, Emon (2-0 against same player)
• Sol Sixxa, Emon (loss)
• Nim, Kavil, Thug
• Dengar, N'Dru, Vaksai (won at time on points, Rookie with 1 hull and IA, Wedge with 1 hull, Dengar with 2 hull)

All had at least 1 Harpoon.

I did a lot of hit and run. Dive in, see which of my ships gets concentrated on, then close the foils and run with that guy, while the other three stay in the fray. I think I only finished 1 match with any shields left, but finished with 3 ships twice and 2 ships twice. Can't wait to play some other list types for more data.

I was thinking about sticking with the old Palp list until 2.0 and have an event tomorrow, but now I'm starting to worry about having to eat through that many hit points. Imperial Alpha should still eat stuff like this alive, right?

44 minutes ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

I was thinking about sticking with the old Palp list until 2.0 and have an event tomorrow, but now I'm starting to worry about having to eat through that many hit points. Imperial Alpha should still eat stuff like this alive, right?

I think FAA and S-Foils gives the X-Wings a lot of help to range the engagement. You'll alpha one off the board, but will probably eat a lot of dice in return.

Well presumably the old Yorr/Inquisitor/QD list is even more vulnerable to mass dice and has less chance of removing an x-wing immediately. I'm almost considering ditching the Emperor for a Reaper with Krennic and an ISB slicer to try to spread the debuff instead and get a little more concentrated fire myself if I don't go the harpoon route. Though that might lead to glorious new-ship misplays!

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!293:170,262,266:63:35:;163:18,-1:27:15:;208:220,36,-1,-1:42:31:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Giving the Inquisitor an extra shield, passing a TL to Vizier to make up for the jam action, and maybe having to spend locks less frequently might be worth it?