I've been an avid wargaming fan/painter for nearly 20 years and looking for a new game to play. I'm not a competitive guy. The miniatures look neat and I have starter in my shopping cart with enough splash funds to add 2 troop boxes. But with some reading it seems the game is imbalanced at the lower point with the general being too strong and that there are obvious units that are more value for your points that will get chosen at a higher rate.

My question is, I played X-wing for a while but it was once again a game that relied to much on the top choice for efficiency and you could not go to the local without having to face the current meta list that spammed some top choice, or had the most hot shot ship awaiting a nerf. 80% of options were never even a consideration. Is this game going to be the same, will I find casual games? Or should I just relegate it as a game I buy the starter and a few options, paint them up and put it away until my boys are older?

In other words will I have fun without investing a lot and constantly updating with the new meta choice in pick up games?

Also is there a page somewhere that lists the upsides and downsides of each unit/model so I don't buy unplayable stuff

Currently there is a very limited amount of miniatures so it's still all fun and games.

Generally I tend not to play against people who only to mega-meta-build. I stay fluffy. Even in tournaments.

Yes, that makes it hard to find players but I still have fun with it.

Currently I'm going with Legion the buying route I have/had with X-Wing. "Buy 1 (one) of each when they are released". But I know this is only possible as long as I have sufficient spendable income.

If you want to play regular games (full games with 800 points) you'll need a box of troopers and some extra fire-power to get to 800 points.

Since the rules are free to download, maybe give them a go first. Maybe the rules are totally not yours and everything is settled then

I play Legion 100% casually with a couple of friends. I think, from the sample we have so far, this game is very solid for the casual gamer.

I have bought.... 4 expansion packs total. And I’ve only used 3 of them so far (sorry Veers). The first 2 were on initial release with the core set to get to 800 points.

You can buy one faction only and have anything you need - so no worries there. And it’s pretty affordable at that point. I don’t feel like my core set elements are outclassed by newer units at all - they have different trade offs sure but that’s the fun of the game. Your core set units are likely to stay highly relevant for a long time, if future announced expansions is any indication.

5 hours ago, Supertimland said:

In other words will I have fun without investing a lot and constantly updating with the new meta choice in pick up games?

Also is there a page somewhere that lists the upsides and downsides of each unit/model so I don't buy unplayable stuff

1. I think yes, you will.

2. No specific page I can think of. The only unit I see people consistently griping about is the t47. And I’m not sure it’s bad just nobody has cracked the code in an “efficient” manner.

If you play Rebels, swarming with more units is your best friend. Your units are cheaper point wise but many of them can take losses quickly under fire. The down side is more $$$ in the game.

If you play Imperials, your units cost more in points but are less susceptible to incoming fire. This makes for a cheaper entrance to the game financially.

I really like my list of Vader, ATST, bikes, and 3x stormtrooper units (or if you reduce the upgrades you can squeeze a snowtrooper in for 4 infantry). It was affordable, it’s flexible enough that I can handle most objectives I feel, and Vader + the ATsT can chuck enough dice to be a serious threat to anything I come against.

There are several good blogs and youtubers that go over units, lists, and tactics. Reading or watching battle reports are a great way to see how the game actually plays. There is a good subform for that just next to this one.

Today it is a well balanced game. Lists that people think aren't great will still kill "better" lists if the better list is played poorly. Most games are pretty close. It is extremely hard to wipe out a full force in six rounds, and the focus on objectives to win rather than killing makes it more tactical than a lot of miniatures games.

7 hours ago, Supertimland said:

In other words will I have fun without investing a lot and constantly updating with the new meta choice in pick up games?

I think it depends a lot on who you play with.

If you're providing all the units and you don't buy into the meta fads (uh... buy and paint six squads of rebel troopers... no thank you!) then you will absolutely be fine and the game has lots of choices in types of interesting lists.

Otherwise go check out the local scene and see how folks are playing it. Or even better find some folks locally who are willing to do the same diverse buy strategy as you, and do the Rivals OP format with them.

One final thought.

With the newest units it seems like FFG is going to churn up the meta enough that a single trick army won't be so effective as it is now. I suspect generalist style lists will have the most fun and a few rock/paper/scissors lists may end up winning championships based on the random order they encounter each other in (and end up getting a lot of attention from the internets).

Great casual game, especcially if you are creative in making scenarios up. Sky is the limit for this. We have a "Take the Beach SAcenario" picture Saving Privite Ryan but with 3 or 4 ATSTs and stoormies storming the beach and trying to take out 3 of 5 Rebel objectives. Only the empirial team picks the 3 of the objectives in secret. Great multi player game. The board you play on needs to be 8' long 4' deep. This will be alot of fun when the new rebel laser comes out. Place a few of those on the cliffs!!

Honestly with my limited seat time, I think it's a better casual game than cut throat competitive game. I like the painting, and I've mostly done L2P games (or full rules with less than 800 points), so my experience is skewed. But if you have sufficient cover on the table, it's a fun game.

It's a good game, competitively as well as beer and bretzel gaming.

Some units are better in certain combinations. Vader likes Snowtroopers, Veers not so much. 1 T47 is not so good, 2 or 0 are the way to go. But all units released and previewed so far are absolutely playable. Actually, the balancing is better than that of most other wargames I've played so far.

I'd strongly recommend a second core set before you buy any other expansions. You will need all the units (except for Luke and Vader) and the second set of dice. The second set of range rulers and barricades is good too. The second core is a bargain.

1 hour ago, DerBaer said:

It's a good game, competitively as well as beer and bretzel gaming.

This, as long as you're playing with someone with the same mindset.

9 hours ago, Deuzerre said:

This, as long as you're playing with someone with the same mindset.

Doesn't that go for every game?

8 hours ago, SunDancerGE said:

Doesn't that go for every game?

Not really, some games are tailored ofr pure beer and pretzels and others are pure competitive, so when you get into it you know what you are gonna get.

Given time, people can break any miniatures game and/or be willing to spend any amount of money to win games. Whether or not this happens in pickup Legion games at your local stores is up to the locals to choose not to do that. Eventually, in post-2000 AD gaming, this will happen to all games. Combinations of certain special characters, using 12 of some weird random support unit, or whatever, will eventually create a horribly imbalanced game. The way I've found to avoid this is to only play with fully painted and based models, and to insist your opponent do the same. It takes the wind outof the casual power-gamers sails. Big convention tournaments are something else but for day to day playing, painted armies are the best hedge against power gaming.

There are a couple of built in limiting factors that make the game much more balanced than X-wing

1. Objective play. I've one games based on accomplishing objectives that I would have lost if it was based on points. Rarely do you run into a situation where you lose because of losing one specific unit.

2. Army building requirements. Because you have to have one commander, at least three troop units, and upper limits on other types of units, the strongest units don't overtake the game. It still feels like Star Wars because you always face such a variety. Since a squad consists of so many units (7 is probably the lower number of units at 800 points), you naturally have more variety.

3. Organized play structure. Currently, organized play is largely scenario based, so it favors a more casual play style. Additionally, the way prizes are awarded favor participation over winning. I can see this changing when the game is out for longer, but for now it is pretty casual.

4. Terrain. There are entire threads on this, but terrain can really keep certain units in check. There is such diversity in how you set up a table that the game always feels different. Just remember that "too much" is better than not enough. The best games I've played have been when I felt that there was enough terrain and still added more.

5. Units less reliant on upgrades than X-wing. I think this is the biggest. I don't use nearly as many upgrades for units in Legion as I do in X-wing. First, units seem to have fewer upgraded slots. Second, the most common upgrades add a physical trooper or physical weapon to the vehicle. It feels less like yet another upgrade to keep track of because you can see it on the table. I almost don't even consider these upgrades.

I still play X-wing, but I love Legion. Legion has really benefited from FFG's other games. It lends itself to casual play much better than X-wing.

I always think of casual miniature games as something easy to put onto a table, has few necessary models/terrain, and doesn't necessarily care about the meta. Of course, the rules of the game are very important too. That being said, Legion isn't the best casual choice as it can take some time to deploy armies and set up the board, needs far more miniatures/terrain than other FFG games, focuses on the hobby aspect with painting, and actually has more of a rules hurdle than other games right now.

Armada is honestly a better game to look into.

If you're not a competitive guy, the whole meta shouldn't be a problem. Don't really worry if a choice isn't as good as others. Instead, focus on fostering that casual experience with other players.

The beauty of X-Wing and Legion (and probably Armada but I just dont play that game), is that you can really play these games as competitive or casual as you like and it seems like you'll be able to find players in both camps. Luckily Legion is new enough that it will probably stick to the casual side for awhile considering it is so new, and expansions are coming out so quickly that unless you're dumping a ton of money by maxing out the number of each expansion you can use (i.e. 6 stormtroopers, 6 snow troopers, etc.) I think it'll be harder to "meta-game" it until releases slow down. Or at least you won't find as many people doing that.

Another plus is that they are focused on keeping the game balanced so with the little that is out, you can have whatever list you personally like and it'll probably do fine. I mean sure some lists are probably "better" than others but unless you're going against spam lists, you won't get tabled.

I mean I've won a few games with Vader, x3 stormtroopers, x1 speeder bikes and an AT-ST before Veers and snow troopers came out and thats not really a great list.

So I'd definitely say you can have a fun casual experience, just buy the models and units you like and have fun with it! There are a ton of local Facebook groups for Legion so just find one in your area and tell people you're new and not looking for a competitive game. I've found that most people just want to have fun and play the game and Im sure would be willing to help you learn too.

Maybe this is the wrong place to say that, but maybe you should check out Imperial Assault before buying into Legion ...

4 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

... casual power-gamers sails. Big convention tournaments are something else but for day to day playing, painted armies are the best hedge against power gaming.

LOL! I love this... rebrand the min-max net-list power-gamers as the 'filthy casuals'... and in this context it works!

On 6/21/2018 at 2:11 PM, DerBaer said:

Maybe this is the wrong place to say that, but maybe you should check out Imperial Assault before buying into Legion

I don't think it's a bad suggestion, but for someone who describes himself as "an avid wargamer," I suspect Imperial Assault would be lightweight for his tastes. But worth watching some gameplay videos to get an opinion.

On 6/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, Supertimland said:

I've been an avid wargaming fan/painter for nearly 20 years and looking for a new game to play. I'm not a competitive guy. The miniatures look neat and I have starter in my shopping cart with enough splash funds to add 2 troop boxes. But with some reading it seems the game is imbalanced at the lower point with the general being too strong and that there are obvious units that are more value for your points that will get chosen at a higher rate.

My question is, I played X-wing for a while but it was once again a game that relied to much on the top choice for efficiency and you could not go to the local without having to face the current meta list that spammed some top choice, or had the most hot shot ship awaiting a nerf. 80% of options were never even a consideration. Is this game going to be the same, will I find casual games? Or should I just relegate it as a game I buy the starter and a few options, paint them up and put it away until my boys are older?

In other words will I have fun without investing a lot and constantly updating with the new meta choice in pick up games?

Also is there a page somewhere that lists the upsides and downsides of each unit/model so I don't buy unplayable stuff

ive been playing TT and RPg since the early 80's...i have played a ton of legion since it dropped...i won maybe one game...but i had fun even when i was loosing....the key is to avoid the meta gamers (like the whiney ones on here) and find a buddy that also wants to have fun..i will not be playing any tournaments in legion due to the asshats that ruined x-wing....i set my mind to "fun" and if i lose 50 times im still going to have fun....get in the right mindset and you will have alot of fun with legion...i certainly have

I play only at home casually with friends/family.

I think its great, easy to play and learn and you still have all these awesome star wars figures and setups ?

I only play at home with friends and it’s great. Painting all of the rebs and imps on my own is time consuming but I enjoy that process now as well.

5 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I only play at home with friends and it’s great. Painting all of the rebs and imps on my own is time consuming but I enjoy that process now as well.

Yep. I only play with friends. I doubt i will ever do tournaments.So pretty casual. This is my first miniatures war game (so i have also been enjoying just learning about painting mini, basing, and building terrain. I've come to really enjoy terrain building, something i only started learning like a month or so ago. I still have a majority of unpainted minis i need to get to. I like it becasue there is a lot more to it than just playing the game.