Hey folks!

Seems to me that, even though there are a bunch of Gunner upgrades in 2.0 that will allow double-tapping, with the lack of many 1.0 passive mods like Predator, Expertise, ASTS, M9 Rerolls, Saw Rerolls, multi-LW, etc etc, double taps will often be pure dice luck, mods on only 1 of them. Seems like I'd rather spend my points on some way to better modify one attack than have 2 poorly modded attacks?

With the decreased reliability of green dice, and defensive mods, the natural edge of red dice over green will make it worth it. Plus, range 1 bonus to turrets means that they are really dangerous at close range.

I think double taps will be worth it. They are not as great as they were in 1.0, but seem more common (with a generic gunner card giving it away, pretty much all ships with a gunner slot can attack twice)

The lack of passive offensive mods is very much deliberate I think. After all, now there are two of them.

Han, Veteran Gunner, Ezra, and any Imperial or Scum variants on them are probably not worth it on double arc Turrets (Decimator, Falcon, K-wing, and YT-2400). You simply won't get many enemies attacking from opposite sides (especially since you should be trying to lurk on the edges of the battlefield). The single target double taps (Said Gunners on a Y-wing, the Moldy Crow, or Lancer) are a bit more attractive since you can wear down an enemy's defenses.

I used to fly TIE/D Delta Squadron pilots in 1.0. Rest assured, double-tap abilities are plenty powerful, even if you can't fully modify absolutely every shot: Against low agility stuff, they hit just fine; against high agility stuff, you effectively get to roll twice and force them to roll twice as well.

Against super-modded defensive powerhouses with more greens than you have reds... well, Doubletap isn't much help there. But that's why your lists should contain some semblance of diversity.

1 hour ago, Greebwahn said:

Hey folks!

Seems to me that, even though there are a bunch of Gunner upgrades in 2.0 that will allow double-tapping, with the lack of many 1.0 passive mods like Predator, Expertise, ASTS, M9 Rerolls, Saw Rerolls, multi-LW, etc etc, double taps will often be pure dice luck, mods on only 1 of them. Seems like I'd rather spend my points on some way to better modify one attack than have 2 poorly modded attacks?

I agree with you, would rather put what will be (most likely) large amounts of points into making my first shot better. Combine that with many of the turrets have you splitting your fire on the double tap gunner cards and I would rather just focus one target down harder and faster then maybe do a bit more damage from the double tap but split between targets (assuming you could even get 2x targets)

An upgrade that helps you hit on one target will generally always be worth it where a double tap out of multiple arcs won't actually be used all that often (thinking to my tie SF play the double tap shot did not happen overly much in a game whereas something that mods shots happen all the time)

Time will tell but I think people are overvaluing the double shot gunner cards.

9 minutes ago, Reiver said:

I used to fly TIE/D Delta Squadron pilots in 1.0. Rest assured, double-tap abilities are plenty powerful, even if you can't fully modify absolutely every shot: Against low agility stuff, they hit just fine; against high agility stuff, you effectively get to roll twice and force them to roll twice as well.

Against super-modded defensive powerhouses with more greens than you have reds... well, Doubletap isn't much help there. But that's why your lists should contain some semblance of diversity.

Almost all of the double tap gunners force you to shoot 2 different targets, its nothing at all like a tie D.

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

Almost all of the double tap gunners force you to shoot 2 different targets, its nothing at all like a tie D.

I hope TIE/D still exists in some form. They were fun.

I watched the (DiceHate) stream of the Rebel Conversion kit and while (rightfully so) Luke Gunner is getting the attention; I think the sleeper gunner will be Han Solo (his double tap occurs the Intiative 7 in the Engagement Phase) and Alex Davy noted the Falcon can still have another shot from the other arc if able. Being able to do this seems great, but losing his pilot ability is something to consider.

i think the only doubletaps that dont force you to splitfire is Dengar revenge shot, Corran second shot, and the Ywing Gunner + Turret since it has a primary gun and a turret. Presumably the TIE/Ag will too but far as i know it doesnt have a gunner, or at least it wasnt mentioned. Theres probably more than the ywing that can do this but its the only one we know for certain (that im aware of anyway) that can do it.

PWT ships dont want the vet gunner. While not terrible with dual-arcs, its a weird spot to actually utilize it. Theres a reason TIE/SFs rarely ever used their splitshot lol

12 hours ago, Icelom said:

Almost all of the double tap gunners force you to shoot 2 different targets, its nothing at all like a tie D.

This is entirely untrue.

Only Bistan prevents you from attacking the same ship again.

A Y-wing with Han, Vet Turret Gunner, or Ezra can ensure that both it's primary forward weapon arc and it's turret weapon arc are on the same enemy and can target that same enemy twice. Depending on the way the rules exactly, this includes having the turret pointed forward.

Even the Vet Tail Gunner can attack the same target twice, though setting up that shot will be fairly difficult (needing to be exactly next to a larger base and roughly in its middle).

16 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

This is entirely untrue.

Only Bistan prevents you from attacking the same ship again.

A Y-wing with Han, Vet Turret Gunner, or Ezra can ensure that both it's primary forward weapon arc and it's turret weapon arc are on the same enemy and can target that same enemy twice. Depending on the way the rules exactly, this includes having the turret pointed forward.

Even the Vet Tail Gunner can attack the same target twice, though setting up that shot will be fairly difficult (needing to be exactly next to a larger base and roughly in its middle).

While true, other then the hawk all the ships with a primary and turret are using a 2 dice attack on one of those shots, therefore being alot less scary. Furthermore those ships are almost always using a turret upgrade to do so and there is no big badass 3 dice at range 1-3 turrets. The ships that can double tap a single target will be 2 weaker shots. Ships with a 3 dice turret are not double tapping the same target.

53 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

This is entirely untrue.

Only Bistan prevents you from attacking the same ship again.

A Y-wing with Han, Vet Turret Gunner, or Ezra can ensure that both it's primary forward weapon arc and it's turret weapon arc are on the same enemy and can target that same enemy twice. Depending on the way the rules exactly, this includes having the turret pointed forward.

Even the Vet Tail Gunner can attack the same target twice, though setting up that shot will be fairly difficult (needing to be exactly next to a larger base and roughly in its middle).

33 minutes ago, Icelom said:

While true, other then the hawk all the ships with a primary and turret are using a 2 dice attack on one of those shots, therefore being alot less scary. Furthermore those ships are almost always using a turret upgrade to do so and there is no big badass 3 dice at range 1-3 turrets. The ships that can double tap a single target will be 2 weaker shots. Ships with a 3 dice turret are not double tapping the same target.

The truth of your truthy comments is partially true. You can do the old BTL Y-Wing tactic and just have the turret face forward. (too bad there isn't a tractor turret that you could use with Han gunner) This may not be a hurricane of dice, but (if you are using dorsal turret) you have the attack power of two TIE fighters stacked on top of one another.

Don't rule out double tapping power houses until we know if the Shadowcaster can take a vet gunner. If so, then you could easily be hit with a 3/2 attack from that one.

Double taps have always been strong, even with low mods. That said, for the cost you’re paying, I’d imagine they’ll be a lot more iffy—really good in some circumstances, but not worth it in others...in other words, balanced squad-building ? .

33 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

The truth of your truthy comments is partially true. You can do the old BTL Y-Wing tactic and just have the turret face forward. (too bad there isn't a tractor turret that you could use with Han gunner) This may not be a hurricane of dice, but (if you are using dorsal turret) you have the attack power of two TIE fighters stacked on top of one another.

Don't rule out double tapping power houses until we know if the Shadowcaster can take a vet gunner. If so, then you could easily be hit with a 3/2 attack from that one.

Don't most of the Gunner upgrades still restrict you from firing out of the same arc as before? I thought Bistan was the only one that allowed attacks from the same arc, but prevented you from using the same target as a tradeoff.

If so, that will prevent a lot of double taps, unless you can pull off an Armada-style attack where the same ship is in two different arcs. And I'm fine with that, as it requires really good piloting to set up.

No, VetGunner restricts you from firing out of the same mobile arc, not the same arc.

If you perform a primary attack out of your normal non-turreted arc then you may perform an attack with a mobile arc, regardless of its facing, as long as you didnt attack out of that particular mobile arc already.

Its worded that way to prevent PWTs from doubletapping at any angle, while allowing the few with a nonPWT and a turret to doubletap dead ahead.

Basically it gives turret users a reason to want to face their targets, something i really wished was there in the beginning. Shooting out of arc should have been a bad idea, but better than nothing...instead in 1.0 it was actually superior in most cases. Being unable to be arc-dodged was strong enough as it is.

Remember in 2.0 turrets and nonturret attacks are completely separate. Nonturret attacks show a shaded circle for the valid arc to use, while turrets just have the circle with a point on it. Theyre independent.

13 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

I hope TIE/D still exists in some form. They were fun.

I would love it too, but seeing as the x7 title is basically baked into the ship, I think we are losing the TIE/D ability.

IMO, there should be a modification for the Defender, B-wing, and gunboat that would allow the equipped cannon to deal its effect and primary weapon damage. Think of the 2.0 ion cannon but in reverse, the first hit does the token and the remaining hits are damage; same effect for tractor and jamming beams. Dice pool would be either primary weapon or cannon dice plus one so there would be an increase to hitting due to multiple weapon systems be fired, but not too overpowered by rolling both weapons' dice.

Purely damage cannons (HLC) would not gain any effect since there is no added token ability.

Its still entirely possible we get a Configuration slot for ships like the Defender (or whatever the slot the sfoils card slots into is called) that simply exchanges or alters the Full Throttle ability to be TIE/D centered. Why do it this way? One less card to deal with for the more popular configuration.

TIE/D had two inherit problems that could easily be remedied in 2.0
1) Cost. It did not help the cost of the Defender vs its Survivability at all, and only marginally improved its offense since the only cannons it was allowed to doubletap with were 1 damage at best effect weaponry. Fletchettes were awesome since they made it really difficult for the ship youre after to rebound on you, while you got a white 4k to abuse. Problem was surviving that initial joust....
2) Limitation on cannons and/or not allowing missiles. Given how expensive HLC was im not even sure if that would be a valid choice but Mangler would have been dope.

If in 2.0 they either remove the cannon-type restriction or still give it some defense (just not as good) or both, it would be great.

Heck even as it is with HLC being nerfed to the bullseye allowing it to doubletap wouldnt be that bad. Bullseyes are very hard to line up without being right in the face...oh wait HLC cant shoot that close....

I'd like to see it gain some defense boost only if it has a valid target for its cannon, improving its jousting ability while not making it super tank-mode like the x7 evade...since the evade is speed-bound not arc-bound
edit: Like this "At the beginning of the Engagement phase, if you have a valid target for your equipped cannon you may perform a free Focus action. You may perform a Primary Weapon Attack after using your equipped Cannon" - the focus would be useful for both offense and defense, but unless you got a valid target you get nothing. Thus, arc-bound defense boost. Successfully arcdodging a TIE/D would mean not only you got away from a doubletap but now its potentially easier to hurt.

I am torn on this one.

It will all come down to cost.

4 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

i think the only doubletaps that dont force you to splitfire is Dengar revenge shot, Corran second shot, and the Ywing Gunner + Turret since it has a primary gun and a turret. Presumably the TIE/Ag will too but far as i know it doesnt have a gunner, or at least it wasnt mentioned. Theres probably more than the ywing that can do this but its the only one we know for certain (that im aware of anyway) that can do it.

PWT ships dont want the vet gunner. While not terrible with dual-arcs, its a weird spot to actually utilize it. Theres a reason TIE/SFs rarely ever used their splitshot lol

The aggressor has a gunner, just like the y wing

21 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Its still entirely possible we get a Configuration slot for ships like the Defender (or whatever the slot the sfoils card slots into is called) that simply exchanges or alters the Full Throttle ability to be TIE/D centered. Why do it this way? One less card to deal with for the more popular configuration.

TIE/D had two inherit problems that could easily be remedied in 2.0
1) Cost. It did not help the cost of the Defender vs its Survivability at all, and only marginally improved its offense since the only cannons it was allowed to doubletap with were 1 damage at best effect weaponry. Fletchettes were awesome since they made it really difficult for the ship youre after to rebound on you, while you got a white 4k to abuse. Problem was surviving that initial joust....
2) Limitation on cannons and/or not allowing missiles. Given how expensive HLC was im not even sure if that would be a valid choice but Mangler would have been dope.

If in 2.0 they either remove the cannon-type restriction or still give it some defense (just not as good) or both, it would be great.

Heck even as it is with HLC being nerfed to the bullseye allowing it to doubletap wouldnt be that bad. Bullseyes are very hard to line up without being right in the face...oh wait HLC cant shoot that close....

I'd like to see it gain some defense boost only if it has a valid target for its cannon, improving its jousting ability while not making it super tank-mode like the x7 evade...since the evade is speed-bound not arc-bound
edit: Like this "At the beginning of the Engagement phase, if you have a valid target for your equipped cannon you may perform a free Focus action. You may perform a Primary Weapon Attack after using your equipped Cannon" - the focus would be useful for both offense and defense, but unless you got a valid target you get nothing. Thus, arc-bound defense boost. Successfully arcdodging a TIE/D would mean not only you got away from a doubletap but now its potentially easier to hurt.

I loved the control aspects of the valid cannons for the TIE/D. However, being able to use the high-offense cannons (HLC) along with your primary is just waaaaay too strong (even for a super weapon of a ship).

They COULD do what they did for the X-1 configuration on the gunboat and say that you are limited to 3 dice, but that still feels strong. Or, they may just limit the damage that you can do with the cannon.

Either way, it feels like a fully loaded defender will compete with DASH as the biggest point-hog in the game (I heard that a naked Dash is about 90 points).