Like everyone else, I’m feeling cheated. I’m another new player that started with the Revised Core. Everything looked so solid and a good time to get into the game. After reading the cancellation, something keeps sticking in my head. Why would FFG be unable to comment as to why they didn’t renew? Seems to me if it was WotC fault they would outright just say so. There could be a legal reason why they can’t talk about yet until it’s resolved, but I don’t have a clue what it would be. Seems to me it was a decision on FFGs side based on what they think is a good business decision. Also when do these license negotiations happen? I seriously doubt that they negotiate a couple of months before renewal. That wouldn’t make sense in a game that plans a year out on development, so they must have been aware of it for some time. The more I think about it, the less I want to support FFG. Why? Because it looks like they made decisions at our expense. I’d like to hear why they cancelled. I would also be hesitant to get into any game where they don’t own the license... like Star Wars.

I feel there's already two threads for this topic...

1 hour ago, Gym Kirk said:

Why would FFG be unable to comment as to why they didn’t renew? Seems to me if it was WotC fault they would outright just say so. There could be a legal reason why they can’t talk about yet until it’s resolved,

More likely they can't talk about it, period. This is part of how contracts work. Look up non-disclosure agreements.

Buy a decent amount of FFG shares and you'll be able to sit at the board and have a saying into these decisions and be entitled to receive some explanations. Being a customer on the other hand does not entitle you to such things. FFG changes their business about ANR and choose not to disclose any of the reasons with us. You still have your cards, your game didn't turned into dust in an instant, the other players are still there, everyone didn't suddenly got bored with this game or started to hate it, so I still don;'t get from all these posts. What prevents you to still enjoy it? It's sad that the game development ends, but the game is still here. You are not cheated in any way. Every collectible/living card game comes to an end eventually.

Whether or not their agreement with WOTC has any force remaining, FFG/Asmo relies on its reputation for absolute discretion as a bargaining chip in its relationships with all its licensors. If FFG starts blabbing about NR, not only could anything remotely blaming of WOTC perhaps be potentially actionable, it would put them in a bad odor with Disney, Bethesda, iD, etc etc.

Yeah, there is no upside to FFG talking about why or when and will only say what they need to say and only when they must say it. They've known about the end of this license for some time now, probably all the way back to October of last year and didn't say anything until the low Regain and Reverie print run forced their hand.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

Yeah, there is no upside to FFG talking about why or when and will only say what they need to say and only when they must say it. They've known about the end of this license for some time now, probably all the way back to October of last year and didn't say anything until the low Regain and Reverie print run forced their hand.

Or they expected to renew and couldn't in the end. They stopped developing Conquest well in advance of it's agreement being cancelled. They did not behave the same way here, the opposite in actuality.

The omega symbol in R&R put some doubt in that theory.

4 hours ago, Hordeoverseer said:

I feel there's already two threads for this topic...

Sorry but I needed to vent

And you're allowed to! Perhaps consider contributing to an ongoing conversation thread with like-minded people?

3 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Or they expected to renew and couldn't in the end. They stopped developing Conquest well in advance of it's agreement being cancelled. They did not behave the same way here, the opposite in actuality.

R&R looks like half a data cycle, stopped short, slapped with the final Omega symbol and given a small print run just because they had that much ready to go. This would have happened many months ago. I am sure they got caught by surprise, only because Sally or whomever in licensing left the company or got transferred to Asmoddee years ago and no one at FFG had a clue that was coming due. It is possible they were on top of this and couldn't or wouldn't get the deal done and the PR machine spun us a tell of great surprise on their part. Either way, this happened many months ago and they just now got around to telling us. On top of that, they had no faith in the game and kept the print runs low as a consequence.

Everyone is frustrated with this whole situation.

3 hours ago, Mep said:

R&R looks like half a data cycle, stopped short, slapped with the final Omega symbol and given a small print run just because they had that much ready to go.

As a former playtester, as someone who knows present playtesters, I can state that this is flat wrong. That’s not how things get designed or tested. Having a better, more well-rounded than TD “second purchase” set was to serve as an entry point to the game.

Gee, who do I know who is constantly bellyaching about that?

As for the rest, more made up baloney. Revised Core Set wasn’t short-ordered, it was fantastically popular and was bringing new and returning players to the game in droves. Sales and tournament attendance were up at all levels.

One thing is certain: R&R did get a short print run, but that was only after the decision came down. It certainly was months ago, but it can’t be helped because it needed to sell out by October. It sucks for everyone.

Playtesters are a huge source of leaks. They aren't going to be told anything and clearly weren't.

A great tell is what would they do with the last data cycle? They couldn't do their monthly release, it will take too long. They could do a deluxe with what they had or finish up and dump the packs out a week at a time. They seemed to like both ideas. L5R got the weekly pack dump and Netrunner got the quickest possible ends.

It is clear at this point they didn't have faith in the game when all this came down and stuff had to be ordered up at the factory. Wish they did have faith.

3 hours ago, Mep said:

A great tell is what would they do with the last data cycle? They couldn't do their monthly release, it will take too long.

Except that's exactly what they did with Conquest.

Having followed him in several forums, I have no reason to doubt Grimwalker's statements about how the testing and general cycle design functions at FFG. I am curious, however. If R&R was meant to be a reasonable second purchase after the RCS, why include any of the mini-faction cards (assuming a casual player had not purchased D&D which contained the actual identities)? Unless R&R was meant to be the deluxe expansion as GW described, but the mini-faction cards were added after the hammer came down.

It was also my impression (based upon other individual statements found elsewhere, and therefore potentially incorrect) that the playtesters had "run dry" months ago (as what had happened previously before the Games Workshop announcement saw the end of Conquest). Was this, in fact, the case?

I can’t actually answer those questions about the design cycle without disclosing things I’m still under NDA about. I’ve written and discarded three different paragraphs to open this post with and I just can’t. Ask me again offline after October.

I know for a fact that Mep is wrong about “not having faith.” Mep is extremely prone to taking his own speculations and feelings and stating them as facts taking his own personal experiences as representative of everywhere, and it’s rather vexing.

As for why R&R has minifaction cards? Well, you want product purchases to drive future purchases. If ever a product leaves a customer feeling like “Okay, I have enough” then it’s not doing its job. Give people a reason to go deeper into the card pool. I don’t think there is a reason to take a Data Pack set and stuff it into a Deluxe box when they could just publish six packs in six weeks like they did with L5R.

Of course it is all speculation since we aren't being given the straight story. Be it Wizards wants the license for their own game or my speculation about what happened or Grimwalker's speculations about the mini-faction cards or anything else he puts out there. BTW Asmodee doesn't tell Grimwalker anything. So no, he doesn't know anything either just cause he tested a few cards some time ago. It's all speculation.

When we get R&R next week, we can look at all the cards and come to our own conclusions. To me, so far, it looks like half a data cycle cut short and packaged up as a deluxe. I am not the only one that feels that way. The number of individual faction cards are so diluted it doesn't make for a good second purchase (not that you could buy one). I am sure they gave play testers whatever story they felt comfortable with getting out to the public. Play testers are bad leakers and FFG knows it. If you want proof of that, read above.

However, I know for a fact I am correct about them not having faith in Netrunner. How do I know this? Print run quantity. If you don't think it is going to sell, you don't make many of them. FFG hardly made any of them at all. That is what actually happen. It isn't speculation. This gives us insight into what else they are thinking and why they did what they did. Pretending something else is going on here cause you knew a few guys and liked them doesn't change the reality of the situation. FFG is owned by Asmodee. They are pulling the strings and they don't tell play testers or even the designers what their business is unless they have to. They are the ones that have to have faith in the product to renew the license and do good sized print runs. They don't. That much is very clear.

BTW, I am sure they learned quite a few lessons from conquest and tried different things.

15 hours ago, Grimwalker said:

As for the rest, more made up baloney. Revised Core Set wasn’t short-ordered, it was fantastically popular and was bringing new and returning players to the game in droves. Sales and tournament attendance were up at all levels.

From my perspective, Netrunner was intimidating to get into. One, it is very different than any other game, and two there is a vast pool of cards. The Revised Core offered a new entry point. That coupled with Team Covenants videos made it much easier to access. TC did a great job pointing out some of the subtleties and depth that one would often miss on a first game. I’m not sure how much FFG was aware of this, and probably partially why they misjudged its popularity (ie didn’t print enough).

When I’m speculating or offering an opinion, I state it as such. I don’t phrase it as “I know” unless I have solid reasons to say so.

And if your position is based on “available information is corporate lies” then that doesn’t increase certainty for anything.

I freely concede FFG didn’t believe in R&R enough to print a full run but the same can’t be said for any other product in the line. I.e., they only stopped having faith in the line after they knew it would be dead. And if their previous experience from Conquest, Star Wars and AGOT 1st ed says that final products don’t sell well I think it’s an understandable mistake. The degree of demand for it reflects just how healthy Netrunner was up until the end.

I agree they turned the ship around with the revised core but that wasn't evident back when the license needed to be renewed or when R&R was ordered. I hope they are kicking themselves now for not having faith in this game.

BTW, I use the word probably a lot, not I know. Pretty clear it is speculation unless you just want to be disagreeable and there is nothing I can do about that.

I am wondering if there is another option for FFG to take, there was a Cyberpunk CCG that came out years ago. As far as I know, it is dead but maybe the license is available and they could look at acquiring it.

Here is a link to it on board game geek;

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11826/cyberpunk-collectible-card-game

Just a thought.

On 6/19/2018 at 9:54 AM, Hellvlad said:

Buy a decent amount of FFG shares and you'll be able to sit at the board and have a saying into these decisions and be entitled to receive some explanations. Being a customer on the other hand does not entitle you to such things. FFG changes their business about ANR and choose not to disclose any of the reasons with us. You still have your cards, your game didn't turned into dust in an instant, the other players are still there, everyone didn't suddenly got bored with this game or started to hate it, so I still don;'t get from all these posts. What prevents you to still enjoy it? It's sad that the game development ends, but the game is still here. You are not cheated in any way. Every collectible/living card game comes to an end eventually.

Asmodee which possibly lock their shares internally like many larger corporations . Eurazeo owns Asmodee and they likely have a high price tag to get in along with the international level requires you to pay a high tariff if you are an offshore investor as anyone from America would be if investing in a European firm.

Yeah this was sudden and definitely untimely. Are we due an explanation, sure and we have been given it, the licensing agreement fell through. Are we due a further explanation on why, well nope that is just how business is. When there is a divorce there is an official reason on the records on why the marriage was dissolved, but the details are left out. So if all you see is irreconcilable differences , you are not going to get a better explanation than that.

Sorry for waking up this topic and I follow the advice of one of you and don't reopen a topic to talk about it but I was quite absent from FFG this year and now I learn that Netrunner is history ? Wow. I'm glad I still have my core set and cards well sleeved and safe at home :-). I even bought the book a year ago or so. Ok R.I.P but I don't feel stolen nor anything.The game is still there in my room there are still a (strong) community out there and that's enough for us to maintain it alive.

When They stopped developing Warhammer Conquest, I felt disappointed too. But I'm happy to have my cards and to replay it from time to time, always enjoyable ? The same can be said with Warhammer Invasion. It's old, very old by today's standards, It's out of print for years but I've got a nearly full collection of it and am happy to play and build decks for it.

So have fun everyone this game still lives with us and with the material already available ?

On 6/25/2018 at 5:49 PM, GFelix said:

I am wondering if there is another option for FFG to take, there was a Cyberpunk CCG that came out years ago. As far as I know, it is dead but maybe the license is available and they could look at acquiring it.

Here is a link to it on board game geek;

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11826/cyberpunk-collectible-card-game

Just a thought.

Funny you should mention Cyberpunk CCG.

The Cyberpunk CCG, as well as the first edition of Netrunner published in 1996 by WotC, were both set in R.Talsorian Games' Cyberpunk 2020 tabletop RPG setting. The term "Netrunner" comes from the "hacker" class in the RPG.

My theory behind the license not getting renewed is based on CD PROJEKT RED's upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 game (also based on R.Talsorian Games' Cyberpunk 2020 setting).

Gwent, the in-universe CCG in CDPR's The Witcher 3, became popular enough to spawn a standalone free-to-play game. I think WotC intends to either simultaneously re-release Netrunner in the Cyberpunk 2077 universe alongside the video game as either an IRL CCG (again), an in-game CCG (ala Gwent), or a standalone video game (also ala Gwent). One of those, or some combination of the three. Or maybe I'm wrong. I dunno, I feel like it def has something to do with Cyberpunk 2077, and FFG will not have the opportunity to get near the Cyberpunk license.