So, without the app, no way to know points, but I'm guessing that 0 point cards will no longer exist.

Have we heard anything about that?

I mean, even just make cards 1 point that were formerly 0 points. We know Trick Shot and R5TK are surviving to 2.0.

Trick Shot should at least be 1, maybe 2 points. Guessing r5TK could still be worth 0 points, but also seems fair for it to be worth 1 point.

I would expect system cards to be zero points.

Edit: Brain Fart, I meant Configurations.

Why?

I think it depends. If a card is a pure bonus, then it's an auto-include at 0 points and should probably cost at least 1. However, if a card includes a trade-off for a minor bonus, it's probably ok for it to be 0 points. I'm thinking specifically of that one card that you choose one of your ships and an opponent's ship, and whenever either ship is shooting at the other, they get a bonus.

45 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I think it depends. If a card is a pure bonus, then it's an auto-include at 0 points and should probably cost at least 1. However, if a card includes a trade-off for a minor bonus, it's probably ok for it to be 0 points. I'm thinking specifically of that one card that you choose one of your ships and an opponent's ship, and whenever either ship is shooting at the other, they get a bonus.

Score to Settle / Debt to Pay

Many Configs will also probably be 0 points, because they need to be external but are still theoretically accounted for in the basic ship price. You shouldn't need to charge the new X-Wing for the Servomotors because it's a dual card with 50% of the card built in, same with Pivot Wing.

4 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Many Configs will also probably be 0 points, because they need to be external but are still theoretically accounted for in the basic ship price. You shouldn't need to charge the new X-Wing for the Servomotors because it's a dual card with 50% of the card built in, same with Pivot Wing.

This was my thought as well but you could theoretically choose not to run S-foils or one of the gunboat configs (the only ones I think we're aware of so far). If you're not forced into them, then they're definitely worth points.

Good point about configs! Didn't think about that.

But I guess maybe a 0 point crew could work? Like, it takes a crew slot, but maybe does have some tradeoffs. I could see that working.

Mostly I think some card like trick shot should not be worth 0 points. But in a 100 point game, probably not enough granularity to have it costed correctly.

So I guess this was more of a click-bait way to say "yay for 200 points!" lol

Yeah, I think for flip configs that are intended to always be used, sure, make em 0 - the cost is factored into the ship.

Gunboat configs shouldn't be 0 because they're upgrades, with differing power levels. Well, you could have one cost 0 and the other not, as a base model/alternate loadout, but...

3 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

Many Configs will also probably be 0 points, because they need to be external but are still theoretically accounted for in the basic ship price. You shouldn't need to charge the new X-Wing for the Servomotors because it's a dual card with 50% of the card built in, same with Pivot Wing.

I believe this is already confirmed from the Livestreams, no?

I was thinking about something similar the other day, will cards like Chardaan Refit on the A-Wing be a thing in 2nd edition? Since the entire card effect could be handled by the app, maybe it will be available without cardboard.

That said though I think zero point upgrades will still be a thing even with 200pts to play with, they didn't cause a problem and their price is partly represented by the fact that you aren't using that upgrade slot for something better. At least the upgrade cards which acted as "fixes" will no longer be necessary.

4 minutes ago, HealOverTime said:

I was thinking about something similar the other day, will cards like Chardaan Refit on the A-Wing be a thing in 2nd edition? Since the entire card effect could be handled by the app, maybe it will be available without cardboard.

That said though I think zero point upgrades will still be a thing even with 200pts to play with, they didn't cause a problem and their price is partly represented by the fact that you aren't using that upgrade slot for something better. At least the upgrade cards which acted as "fixes" will no longer be necessary.

This is correct. From what I can tell it appears there is minimal to no cost for empty upgrade slots.

For example, from what we havre heard and it is substantiated by an example build, 2.0 Miranda is 45 points now. That's less than a 1.0 warden pilot.

Pure negative point cards won't exist. Their function is subsumed by the app.

0 point fix cards probably won't exist. There might be configurations which look similar if the ship ability is multifaceted so it can't go on the pilot card or there are multiple options for it.

0 point double edged sword cards might well exist.

2 hours ago, HanScottFirst said:

Good point about configs! Didn't think about that.

But I guess maybe a 0 point crew could work? Like, it takes a crew slot, but maybe does have some tradeoffs. I could see that working.

Greedo.

Currently as a high risk high reward card at 1, so probably 2 in 2nd ed. However, if the app does actually graded costing, he could cost more when equipped on a ship with many shields, Gonk, or many green dice, while being 0 when equipped on a ship without shields or 0-1 green dice.

Nah ... for example

Surprising Effect (Talent, 0 points). At the start of the Activation Phase, you may discard this card to surprise your opponent.

Configs should be 0

Super situational stuff like Crackshot or Marksmanship should be 0 (you still pay for taking pilots with a talent slot). Both are bullseye but Crackshot is one charge and Marksmanship doesn't actually increase the of hit results generated like Predator can

If an upgrade provides any sort of effect, it should have a cost. That would make sense. We want pilots without upgrades to be priced correctly. You should not be "forced" to fill a ship with upgrades. 0 point upgrades force you to take them.

0 point upgrades existed in 1e because upgrade slots increased a pilots cost. (but only sometimes) This is bad. It forced you to use every single upgrade slot or else your ship was strongly negatively affected. Essentially all useful 1e upgrades are undercosted. Wedge technically shouldn't need a talent upgrade to be viable. I hope he is costed so you can fly him without any upgrades. With the app, upgrade costs can now be scaled to match the value they bring to a particular pilot. Higher initiative usually greatly enhances the value of an upgrade.

With upgrades and ships having adjustable pricing we should be able to have ships not pay any extra points for their upgrade slots.

Only the stats, size and dial should affect the price.

Then upgrades can be priced much higher, e.g. 30 point Luke.

This idea does fall down with various upgrade/pilot combos being greater than the sum of their parts BUT an app could take that into account (specific upgrade prices increasing if a ship already has a certain upgrade or pilot to pilot ship to ship)

That would be a tricky system to balance but would allow much greater control of the meta, prevent ships having autoinclude upgrades or only one or two competitive builds as anything too efficient can be knocked on the head, keeping the meta fresh without relying on new upgrades and ships.

If they are going to have 0 cost cards, there should be multiple ones that are equally usable so that we don't get a bunch of auto-includes.

I don't think 200 points will be the end of 0 point upgrade cards, I think the official X-wing app will be the end of 0 point upgrades.

Instead of having a 0 point Integrated Astromech on a 21 point X-wing; we will have a 4 point Integrated Astromech on a 38 point X-wing.

Opportunity cost is a very real thing though.

If an effect is minor, then just taking up the slot can be enough of a cost.

15 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Nah ... for example

Surprising Effect (Talent, 0 points). At the start of the Activation Phase, you may discard this card to surprise your opponent.

I believe that card is actually called 'Boogity-boo!'

The doubling of points bares no relation to 0 cost cards.

in 1.0 upgrade slots raised the overall cost of a ship. So taking no upgrades was a disadvantage. 0 cost cards allowed the designers to help off set that disadvantage.

If that changes then I would suspect 0 cost cards to be rare?

Whats not to like about 0 cost cards?

15 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Nah ... for example

Surprising Effect (Talent, 0 points). At the start of the Activation Phase, you may discard this card to surprise your opponent.

Nope, that card would come with one charge, with the surprise ability activated by spending the charge.

2 hours ago, DekoPuma said:

Opportunity cost is a very real thing though.

If an effect is minor, then just taking up the slot can be enough of a cost.

Exactly. I don't see how Jamming Beam could cost more than the opportunity cost of not equipping any other cannon. It is a solid 0 points card.