Hello folks!

So I've flown against Howard aces a few times now, and I run into a dilemma.

First face-off, I took QD's shields round 1 of combat, killed him the next, but lost 2 ships in the exchange, leaving me with poptics. I could have won that if I'd then started shooting the shuttle instead of pointlessly trying to kill Inky for too long. Just narrowly lost on points.

Last face-off was more brutal. I went to joust QD, but couldn't get all his shields because one ship died before he got to shoot that round (really quite poor dice against QD's double tap, and Inky and Yorr), then next round, because QD still had a shield, he got another bonus shot off and I lost another ship that round. Once again, I was left with Poptics, who killed the shuttle, then tragically died to Inky because of a PS0 crit...

So...should I be gunning for QD first? Or should the shuttle be my 1st target? After all, it should melt in 2 turns to 3 ships' fire.

Cheers!

Who are you flying with Poe?

First example I was flying Keyan Maullander and Strezra, second example I was flying Luke and Wedge (with Saw's stuff).

However my more usual list now is Strezra, Saw (w/Hera and other things), and PTL regen Norra.

Here's a 2018 world champs example of someone going after Yorr first and sneaking a win on points:

https://youtu.be/Qx4KO0fPU_s

In this example QuickDraw is targeted first but the rebel list is a bit more tanky than yours ...

https://youtu.be/jIXjEV2A7m0

Final example - also targeted QD first although looks like they narrowly lost on points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlbpct48Axc

Bottom line - if you're losing two ships in the first round of combat, is your list a bit brittle?

Those 2 lists for sure, a bit brittle. In that first game Keyan is very brittle and Ezra was just outpaced in terms of damage.

Second list, Luke's green dice did NOT help. He rolled one evade against 3 attacks and couldn't proc his ability once.

Palp shuttle always first unless you have something like rebel alpha to eliminate any 1 ship instantly. Figure out your win scenario (basically its usually quickdraw + yorr and win on points against Inqy) so you have to kill Palp anyways and 32pts is nice to have. The faster he dies, the easier it is to kill the aces when they cant kturn and sloop and be stress free. Inqy becomes instantly blockable/killable once Yorr is gone.

When I fly against a Palp list with QD, I almost never attack QD first I try to get the shuttle, as with Palp in play it is so easy for QD and Inquisitor to either push a lot of damage or its nearly impossible to put damage into the inquisitor. I make exceptions when QD doesn't have arc, he already shot and did no damage or his only shots are range 3 or at a regen Focus Poe. It's a tough list to crack if your opponent is good, but one bad roll can ruin QD. The only reasons to ever target the inquisitor while Palp is still alive is if he is the only target, or you get multiple range 1-2 shots against him.

If you are building just to counter this, Biggs might be a good choice when you decide to attack QD

Personally, I'd figure on killing Yorr first, with an exception in the case that you just have too good a shot. QD accidentally lands on a rock (or maybe doesn't have arc)? Go get those shields!

10 hours ago, wurms said:

Palp shuttle always first unless you have something like rebel alpha to eliminate any 1 ship instantly. Figure out your win scenario (basically its usually quickdraw + yorr and win on points against Inqy) so you have to kill Palp anyways and 32pts is nice to have. The faster he dies, the easier it is to kill the aces when they cant kturn and sloop and be stress free. Inqy becomes instantly blockable/killable once Yorr is gone.

8 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Personally, I'd figure on killing Yorr first, with an exception in the case that you just have too good a shot. QD accidentally lands on a rock (or maybe doesn't have arc)? Go get those shields!

Agreed. Captain Yorr is always your ideal first target, because taking away both Yorr's stress control and palpatine's dice modification is huge.

That said, it depends how your opponent flies - some people are aggressive with the shuttle, others try to keep it out of the fight. I would always close with the shuttle, simply because it's pretty much a fixed point compared to the aces, but be ready to switch targets to quickdraw given the chance; if you think you're going to be able to put mass fire on her, an en-masse turn of your squad away from the shuttle and towards the TIE/sf could catch your opponent off guard, and de-shield or even kill her in one round.

I appreciate all this feedback - very interesting to hear everyone's perspectives.

I definitely see where you're coming from with Yorr 1st - but I confess, is it not dangerous to leave QD alive? I might lose a ship in the 1st engagement, and then I risk QD getting many more attacks.

I guess it depends on how confident you are you can grab all QD's shields on the opening round. With 3 green dice, Palp, and a Focus, that's not always easy. But with a maxed out list, all guns brought to bear, perhaps you can limit QD to only one return shot over the course of the game. However, say you fail, and then go after QD the next round. You'll have handed your opponent two extra attacks in the first two turns. You're front-loading your opponent's damage. If I'm flying a regen ship into that, the most dangerous time for me feels like it's when my opponent has lots of dice on me, and I don't want to compress that time window. If things get down to 1-on-1 vs QD, it's still not good, but going from 1 to 2 attacks suffered a round isn't as bad, IMHO, as going from 3 to 4. Each marginal attack matters more than the one before it, until you reach the point of fatal damage, then they start to matter less again. Some of the worst rounds, in my experience, for a Poe or Norra are going to be when all guns are on them. I think stringing things out is better for long run survival and just run-and-regen on a higher-point last ship.

That's how I handled my last QD (wasn't Howard, but still), by running for 15 minutes on a Poe against a 1-shield, and winning by a single point. I figured the only way I lose is if I eat two attacks a round. I kinda made a mistake, though. There was a turn I fled on a 3-straightm, but I thought about and should have 4-K'd. After seeing my opponent's move, I'd have had a clean shot without return fire. If I could take off the last shield then, it'd be a lot easier to justify going for the kill. But I guessed... well, not wrong, since I won in the end, but guessed coward, and ran. It'd been a tough match. I had just Poe vs a mostly-healthy Countdown and QD, having taken out Ryad when I still had a list, but not getting as much as I'd have liked from Braylen and Fenn. Some good Tallon Rolls (which normally stink for my Poe) got the better of QD, and I'd been in a bad head-space from earlier (1st round loss, 2nd round bye), so I just wanted a win.

Also, Yorr is sneaky-good. I've been playing some with Yorr and 2x Sienar-Jaemus Analysts with AdvS, AdvO, and Autothrusters. It's wicked fun, those silencers can get places. But my opponent doesn't go for the shuttle, and I'm able to keep Palping and that really adds up. Kill Palp First was always the way in the early Palp Aces days. Then folks stopped flying it much. But now he's back, and folks have forgotten how much of a long-term impact he has on a game.

Thanks Fig, thats a very insightful response. I do remember the old days of killing Palp first, and yes, I suppose I have fallen prey to the mindset that, post-nerf, you can leave him. Perhaps not.

Thanks everyone!!

On 6/15/2018 at 4:26 AM, Greebwahn said:

First example I was flying Keyan Maullander and Strezra, second example I was flying Luke and Wedge (with Saw's stuff).

However my more usual list now is Strezra, Saw (w/ Hera and other things), and PTL regen Norra .

Your wing mates here are really quite awful at dishing out damage against tokened aces, and worse even that that against palp-backed aces. Dash-Poe is a meta list for a reason - because it can dish out damage and tank in return. Dash-Poe is boring though, so other wing mates that can help out include:

Nym. The big one. A bomblet out the front is an excellent way to dissuade a joust entirely. You can just fit in a stripped down Nym alongside PS8 poptics and Strezra.

A Ghost. Don't worry about adding a shuttle; a kitted out Ghost is excellent at jousting with just its primary weapon.

Rey with expertise can horrifically mess with jousters like QD which prey on low-defensive mod ships. Rey can tank the full power of Howard Aces and only lose 8 health while killing QD. She fits in nicely points-wise alongside Poe.

Poe is already amazing at dealing with high PS aces. His escort(s) have to be able to deal with everything else.

Hey folks!

Just flew against Howard Aces with Strezzra, Saw, and Norra. I took your advice and dropped the Shuttle fast, then I had and took the chance to kill Inky, and proceeded to pass up 3 turns of 1 shot on QD while she pecked away at me until I could get all my guns on her again, and she melted.

Thanks!