Aside from staying out of arc, which isnt always the easiest thing to do, how do you guys counter harpoons from lists with multiple harpoons?
I considered loading up on expert handling but I think that would hurt my list more than help it, similar with counter measures
Exploit the range one bubble or tank up.
1 hour ago, LeadBelly said:Exploit the range one bubble or tank up.
Its usually the initial volley that troubles me
Here's a game from the recent world champs with Nathan Eide beating the rebel alpha strike list.
it depends on what you're running. Fast, maneuverable ships you either get out of arc of range 1 bubble. Bigger ships, or less maneuverable ones either have to have things like countermeasures, or Black one. Or you tank the shot.
You can also jam them. Run the jamming beam. Soon you can use the reaper and jam them as an action.
16 hours ago, Trudem said:Its usually the initial volley that troubles me
What do you prefer flying?
Black one works great, especially paired with intensity, autothrusters, and R5-P9
5 hours ago, LeadBelly said:What do you prefer flying?
My issue is that I generally like to fly lists that joust and thats where it gets me into trouble. Also big base ships that automatically lose half of their value right after the initial volley.
I was more asking about tips to control range better.
I was interested in that Nathan Eide game how the commentary talked about him trying to get in 'range 4' so that he could close to range 1 (he even managed a super impressive block on two of the harpoon carriers, denying actions). So I guess, thinking about the positions that will be favorable for you to get the types of engagements you're looking for. Obviously high PS and re-positioning actions are going to help a lot there.
29 minutes ago, eljms said:I was interested in that Nathan Eide game how the commentary talked about him trying to get in 'range 4' so that he could close to range 1 (he even managed a super impressive block on two of the harpoon carriers, denying actions). So I guess, thinking about the positions that will be favorable for you to get the types of engagements you're looking for. Obviously high PS and re-positioning actions are going to help a lot there.
Yeah...he did that like he knew what he was doing! It was really impressive.
On 6/15/2018 at 3:13 AM, Trudem said:My issue is that I generally like to fly lists that joust and thats where it gets me into trouble. Also big base ships that automatically lose half of their value right after the initial volley.
I was more asking about tips to control range better.
Your jousting list is very weak if it can't close from R4 to R1, incorporating your opponents movement. Given that you're flying big base ships you should have no trouble really. Not sure what ship in particular you're going with, but here's a few tips for each:
Ghost. In this match up the rocks are your friend. Use them to only take a single shot each round, while dishing out the TLT fire.
Dash. Rocks once again, but double so. If every shot you tank is obstructed by a rock you're practically invincible.
RAC. He wants an all-out joust, then a dauntless boost behind their ships. If that doesn't work, bump one, kylo another and tank the third shot and you'll come out on top.
IG-88s. PTL + Advanced sensors is the way to go. Block with one and take range 3 shots with the other.
Asajj. Timewalk Asajj has never had a problem with munitions and never will. Joust with the mobile arc forward and use 'stims after evading as the action and laugh as their burn through their expensive missiles.
Firesprays. Boba wants to joust, and Kath likes rocks.
Overall, you've just got to lern the weakness of each harpoon carrier and exploit it. Nym hates focused fire, Miranda hates control, Kihraxz fighters hate spike damage, etc, etc.
you have to prepare for it. If your list is something like 4 xwings or 4 mangler sycks. Just know you are probably losing one. Nathan Eide has Fenn to boost and barrel roll Corran at ps10. Other lists take countermeasures + glitter combo. Black One. Engine Upgrade on large ships to close distance and cause bumps. A ship to bait the list. Something like Adv Sensors Kylo or Nym that can point one way, and fly off in another. Fast ships like Inquisitor that can 5 ship + boost passed the alpha.
rocks rocks rocks. The alpha strike depends on getting multiple shots off in the same round. Use the rocks to split the group up. Pretty much the Tie Swarm Tactic. Make em tight and lead the alpha in/near rocks. If you only take 1 harpoon a round, that aint bad, cause every round you get defense tokens to negate damage. Alpha strikes want the 2nd,3rd missiles to have naked defense die. So try and eat em round by round if that is your option and let rocks provide extra defense to you.
approach: dont go head on. Dont make it obvious your only move is a 2 sharp in towards the center where they line up all arcs. Make them guess where you could 3 bank left or 1 straight or 5 straight and boost. Then they may go straight with one ship and bank with the others to fan the arcs a bit, and if one arc misses you, that is huge.
flank. Dont have all three ships come down the left side, making it easy for them to just say "Thats where my arcs are pointing". Bring them in different directions. This falls in with the bait tactic. You should get a sense of who they are targeting, and can try and zoom out of range, etc. with one. Just be careful they dont make a quick 2 sharp and catch your other ship coming in with the flank. At system open, I face a deadeye lok with harpoons and deadeye kavil with protons and I had ps2 Nus. I drew the opponent into the rocks until he made a mistake and his left banks were blocked by a rock, and thats when I slammed away in that direction while he banked right and was now facing the wrong direction. He never fired an ordnance shot that game.
If they are flying a wide formation, like 3 ships side by side, what you would want to do is have their ships do a sharp/bank maneuver when approaching you, and only have the nearest guy in range. Or only two, since someone like wedge has FAA and hard to get away from.
Something like this where you escape Nyms arc, and only in crackens and Wedge (cause FAA). Cracken only has a lock, so if he can only get 3 hits or worse, you could block the entire thing. Bring them into rocks, and now you can see Cracken doesnt really have a good bank maneuver next round, with that right defender flanking. Keep coming in at angles against Nym to avoid bomblets. If that left defender just went head on into all three arcs, it dies before it fires. And that third harpoon would just be naked dice defending against it. Where as next round, your ship that eat that last harpoon could have tokens to defend.
When I played Blair Bunke's 7 Z swarm. I was flying triple wookiees, and made his Z's flying 3front/3middle/1rear formation turn into the middle, while I swung around rocks on the outside. This turned his formation into a 3front/2middle/2rear formation. That two Z drop into the rear, made 3 Zs out of range on engagement. It was something like whats below. He had 4 Zs in range, and they were split among two of my wookiees (Lowhhrick is far left out of range)
Dont play their game. Make them struggle to keep formation. Eventually they have to break up when not all can 2 sharp around a rock, etc. In lists like Cracken, they cannot split, because of crackens ability at range 1. With tracers, they have to all maintain range 2 of the tracer shooter. Use that knowledge to your advantage.