Surely this should be a HWK-290 thread?

1 hour ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Sort of... Keyan (Ten Numb in v2) can spend stress like a focus. The second named pilot in the conversion kit has a sightly better version of Ibtism’s v1 ability, allowing you to reroll up to 2 die when attacking/defending. The problem however is named B-Wing pilots have always been super fragile, and pricey. While generics were just a meat-wall with 8 hits and access to Barrel-Roll and a system.

In v2 they’re just getting a 1-speed Tallon Roll, and a Roll -> Red Focus, on one of the reddest dials in the game. Generics won’t be at the PS to really make use of the linked action as effectivey, while also having to shed stress the following turn. Ten Numb can shed stress for focus, so the roll to focus is even less useful for him. And Not-Ibtism v2 still has to shed that stress, which will make his gimmick a lot more predictable. So right now with what we know B-Wings will likely have, it’s going to be a 1-agility cannon/system carrier that lacks an astro slot (Y-Wings and K-Wings are better for ordnance thanks to Reload). We might be able to plug a Gonk into the backseat of one, but I wouldn’t bank on that for survivability.

Rerolls when stressed you mean?

Where’s that full leak of the rebel conversion kit again?

3 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

B-Wings... And I’m really worried about them in v2. They weren’t survivable in v1 unless spammed (up until TLT hit the tables). V2 doesn’t look to be doing them any favors with a dial that red.

Self-stress + abilities that utilize stress + "50 points for named B-wing pilots" (alleged Alex quote) = lots of really good B-wing play.

2 hours ago, Hylian100 said:

Surely this should be a HWK-290 thread?

the hawk has had a few threads announcing it's glory and power. but you are right, it needs more!

Gunboat thread is right there. OP is mental.

Wait this isn't the Millenium Falcon thread. Surely it is.. I mean their are three different types:

Scum Lando, Resistance Rey and of course one with a guy riding Solo

6 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

There is NO TIE INTERCEPTOR THREAD and it annoys me. I love Squints and I expect them to dominate everything for the rest of time, mostly because they are pointy and beautiful.

Interceptors suck. The original lazy TIE design. Just make the wings pointy! All TIE designs up til ROTJ were unique and changed multiple aspects of the craft. Even standard Fighters didnt stay the same between movies, changing their primary armament from the orange tinted repeating guns to smooth bore weapons. Vader’s TIE basically kept only the cockpit from the fighter (except the engines) and beefed up everything else. And it doesn’t get more original than the double hull of the Bomber.

but the Interceptor is just pointy wings on the same chassis as the Fighter. And that makes it go faster! Yeah yeah, maybe some internal differences in the engines can be claimed, but the overall design is just...uninspired.

now GUNBOAT, that little beastie is very well designed! That’s how you take a recognizable ship and give it a spin into a totally different craft.

GUNBOAT.

You're all wrong. As the glorious Manda'lor decreed: The Fang Fighter is the best ship in the galaxy and shall forever be in the front page.

However, as it already has a thread, Manda'lor will permit others to have their spotlight - even if not as bright or enduring as the Fang's.

There's been a Firespray thread coming up to the front page pretty regularly because it does get some nice boosts for 2.0.

The ARC-170, though, I feel like we can't talk too much about it until we know what upgrade slots it will have. The chassis is solid but the upgrade slots really make the ship here. I'm still hoping for crew+astro+gunner.

Also, the Lambda has a rear arc and you didn't include it. For shame.

17 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Self-stress + abilities that utilize stress + "50 points for named B-wing pilots" (alleged Alex quote) = lots of really good B-wing play.

My issue with that is

1) Named B-Wings already had a lot of stress play. It’s slightly better, but ultimately nothing changed on that front. In v1 I can already run a Keyan with Stay on Target and Advanced Sensors for 34 points. And it’s primary issue has always been “It’s just a B-Wing...” I can run a tougher ship with more shields/hull if I go for an Auzituck (or K-Wing, or Arc-170).

And 2), this actually does a disservice to the B-Wing. Making it cheap(er) just reinforces it as being a sub-par ship that needs to be spammed. In lore, they weren’t in swarms, and were uncommon. And their firepower and slim design was supposed to make their purpose that of a capital-killer. If it’s equal or lower cost to the T-65 X-Wings, due to being an arguably worse ship barring a cannon and system slot, then we’re back to v1 where spamming cheap 22-point B-Wings was the way to go until Twin Laser Turret hit the table. And even then that didn’t sit well with me.

I would rather they had a nudge towards more survivability, say a reinforce action or a free evade token when defending from an attack from their front arc, than 50-pt aces.

59 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I would rather they had a nudge towards more survivability, say a reinforce action or a free evade token when defending from an attack from their front arc, than 50-pt aces.

I'd have to agree, for the most part.

When contrasting with the T65, I wish they'd feel a little more niche..... Which was I guess the point of their double torp slots in 1.0?

We'll see how they shape up after upgrades.

Maybe they'll be costed to spam... Or maybe the cost hints at some optimal upgrades that are vital to their niche heavy fighter role.

34 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I'd have to agree, for the most part.

When contrasting with the T65, I wish they'd feel a little more niche..... Which was I guess the point of their double torp slots in 1.0?

We'll see how they shape up after upgrades.

Maybe they'll be costed to spam... Or maybe the cost hints at some optimal upgrades that are vital to their niche heavy fighter role.

The double torp slot in v1 was there because in the old EU (X-Wing computer game) the damned thing had a ridiculously high complement of torpedoes (12). Which was higher than the Y-Wing. I remember flying missions in X-Wing and approaching an enemy Tie with “**** it, I’ll just use another torpedo... I’ve got 7 left!”

Anyways from what we’ve seen of the Rebels in v2 there are far better ordnance carriers (Y-Wing, K-Wing), tougher “heavy fighters” (Auzituck, Arc-170), heavies with better dials (Auzituck, ARC-170, Y-Wing), better ships with system slots (v2 E-Wing), and more ships with barrel-rolls than there were in v1. So far the only thing I’ve seen that they have going for them is the liklihood of a cannon slot (HLC is now drastically less powerful). Even the devs during the reveal were very blazé about it.

That is because the best ships are obviously broken, and are only jank that noobs use because they don't know how to win with skill, so they have to be nerfed.

So dropping the sarcasm, I am interested to see which ship will be making the top cut. If I were to make a few predictions.

22 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Sort of... Keyan (Ten Numb in v2) can spend stress like a focus. The second named pilot in the conversion kit has a sightly better version of Ibtism’s v1 ability, allowing you to reroll up to 2 die when attacking/defending. The problem however is named B-Wing pilots have always been super fragile, and pricey. While generics were just a meat-wall with 8 hits and access to Barrel-Roll and a system.

32 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

The double torp slot in v1 was there because in the old EU (X-Wing computer game) the damned thing had a ridiculously high complement of torpedoes (12). Which was higher than the Y-Wing. I remember flying missions in X-Wing and approaching an enemy Tie with “**** it, I’ll just use another torpedo... I’ve got 7 left!”

Anyways from what we’ve seen of the Rebels in v2 there are far better ordnance carriers (Y-Wing, K-Wing), tougher “heavy fighters” (Auzituck, Arc-170), heavies with better dials (Auzituck, ARC-170, Y-Wing), better ships with system slots (v2 E-Wing), and more ships with barrel-rolls than there were in v1. So far the only thing I’ve seen that they have going for them is the liklihood of a cannon slot (HLC is now drastically less powerful). Even the devs during the reveal were very blazé about it.

They should indeed be pretty survivable, but having the option of hitting hard with lasers (via cannons) or with torpedos should mean they don’t have to be cheap spammers. I hope FFG make them feel right in that way.

My name is Strider Zessei, and I spent two hours writing a post that only 8 people read...

First of all, TIE STRIKERS AND B-WINGS!

Second of all...understand a few things about B-Wings in the upcoming 2e. The named pilots by themselves have one of the very rare capabilities to generate fully modded attacks in a single round without another ship giving them actions or tokens via stressing themselves, which their dial and linked action of focus to barrel roll allow them easy access to. Adv sensors will be almost stapled to them because it works extremely well with those reds. Besides adv sensors and maybe a crew if that's a slot, there isn't likely a NEED for munitions or maybe even cannons because of how efficient those named pilots are so the need to invest a lot of points into them allows room for more stuff in your list. Their survivability is just their amount of health and that's just about it. If you want to protect that health, use Biggs or Lowhhrick or Evaan Verlaine or Selfless or maybe others we don't know of yet. BWings and YWings generally do better with escorts, so use them. Finally, also remember that the efficiency of ships shooting at you have also now drastically gone down. Rarely will there be double modded shots every turn like there is today that will burn a BWing down in 1-2 turns. As long as it's protected or positioned correctly, it will do work with it's powerful offense. It's not going to be the superstar of the Rebel faction, but it's not like it won't be usable.

1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

My name is Strider Zessei, and I spent two hours writing a post that only 8 people read...

I guess I missed that.

6 hours ago, RStan said:

Second of all...understand a few things about B-Wings in the upcoming 2e. The named pilots by themselves have one of the very rare capabilities to generate fully modded attacks in a single round without another ship giving them actions or tokens via stressing themselves, which their dial and linked action of focus to barrel roll allow them easy access to. Adv sensors will be almost stapled to them because it works extremely well with those reds. Besides adv sensors and maybe a crew if that's a slot, there isn't likely a NEED for munitions or maybe even cannons because of how efficient those named pilots are so the need to invest a lot of points into them allows room for more stuff in your list. Their survivability is just their amount of health and that's just about it. If you want to protect that health, use Biggs or Lowhhrick or Evaan Verlaine or Selfless or maybe others we don't know of yet. BWings and YWings generally do better with escorts, so use them. Finally, also remember that the efficiency of ships shooting at you have also now drastically gone down. Rarely will there be double modded shots every turn like there is today that will burn a BWing down in 1-2 turns.

Ten Numb is just Keyan. Yes he can focus -> roll for stress, but stress is already your focus.

Not-Ibtism gets nearly full mods, but Ibtism was never good to begin with.

Yes their health is their survivability. But that’s also the case for the other rebel heavy ships that also have access to damage repair/regen astros, reinforce, or even a 9th hit. Efficiency has always been the thing for Blue Squadrons, and yay for the aces not being overcosted anymore. I know the sky’s not falling, we’ll know more when the app is released, and maybe crew+system will be amazing. But it’s still worrying to me that the only thing it seems to have going for it is “efficiency” over the alternatives.

On 6/13/2018 at 10:41 PM, wurms said:

All hail the king of 2.0

the feet of real Boba is cringing right now...

On 6/14/2018 at 4:54 PM, RStan said:

Finally, also remember that the efficiency of ships shooting at you have also now drastically gone down. Rarely will there be double modded shots every turn like there is today that will burn a BWing down in 1-2 turns. As long as it's protected or positioned correctly, it will do work with it's powerful offense. It's not going to be the superstar of the Rebel faction, but it's not like it won't be usable.

This is the most key observation in this thread, and any others regarding ship usability in 2.0. Everything will have a place and the B-Wing is no exception. With a reduction in red (and green dice) power creep, and less action economy to modify those dice, the B is going to be what it should have been. A knife fighter that can withstand single ship attacks reasonably well and make opposing ordnance carriers pay afterwards as they flee its close quarters prowess. If they don't commit at least two ships in the alpha to taking it down, (and it will most likely demand another round of attention) it will be a factor by virtue of that it is going to be reasonably costed. It's almost a reverse psychology Biggs effect. Need to shoot at it or otherwise it will be regretted.

10 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Ten Numb is just Keyan. Yes he can focus -> roll for stress, but stress is already your focus.

Not-Ibtism gets nearly full mods, but Ibtism was never good to begin with.

Yes their health is their survivability. But that’s also the case for the other rebel heavy ships that also have access to damage repair/regen astros, reinforce, or even a 9th hit. Efficiency has always been the thing for Blue Squadrons, and yay for the aces not being overcosted anymore. I know the sky’s not falling, we’ll know more when the app is released, and maybe crew+system will be amazing. But it’s still worrying to me that the only thing it seems to have going for it is “efficiency” over the alternatives.

Ten Numb is not as effective as Braylen Stramm because you'd need to Adv Sensors for a TL and do a Red maneuver with Ten where as Braylen Stramm just needs to either do maneuver then Focus > Barrel Roll or Adv Sensors focus and do a Red maneuver. Ten still has the advantage of spending the stress so can do another red maneuver next turn where as Braylen can't do successive red maneuvers. Braylen is now a better Ibtisam because it can reroll 2 dice, not just 1.

Besides all that, you seem to be stuck in the 1e mindset. The B-Wings and their pilots weren't good because everything else had easier and better access to passive offensive mods at a better point ratio than the named B-Wing pilots. On top of that, they weren't part of the hyper defensive ship category so with the offense going up, the B-Wings just died faster.

Now, lets take a look at 2e ships and pilots. The only ships that we've seen so far that can have double modded attacks by themselves without needing help from another ship are:

- Han Solo, has to be in range 1 of obstacle (not hard), but have to reroll all dice to count as your rerolls and can't be selective.

- E-Wings, have LRS essentially, but after using that TL they generally have to disengage to setup another pass if you want double mods again.

- Boba Fett, needs to be at range 1 of other enemy ships to gain a reroll per ship at range 1.

- Vader, uses force to gain multiple actions or use them as soft focuses, very costly ship.

- 4LOM, Adv Sensors a TL and perform a Red to gain calculate token.

- Ten Numb & Braylen Stramm, needs to stress itself to gain passive mods, but has easy access to reds and focus > barrel roll linked action.

Han and Vader are likely to be double or more the price of either Ten or Braylen. E-Wings might provide one of the best alpha strikes, but I'm pretty sure per ship will be more expensive than the B-Wings. The new Firespray rework is going to be hard to hypothesize until we have an idea of price because there are a lot of changes to it, but it seems very good. 4LOM is somewhere near Ten in terms of how it works, but Calculate is only changing 1 over, not all, but 4LOM has the opportunity to stress out opposing ships with his ability. Ten & Braylen have the chance to provide some of the most consistent offensive firepower turn after turn at maybe the cheapest cost in comparison to the other pilots listed above. Granted it's cheaper because it's flat dial to dial comparison to other ships is below average, the chassis can get burned down fast with only 1 agility if placed in a bad spot, and the named pilots are only I4. Again, that's why I said they won't be superstars, but they will have a valuable place if put in the right squad and played well.

On 6/13/2018 at 5:26 PM, mazz0 said:

If it doesn't have a rear arc it can go home.

All hail to the mighty Lamba Shuttle!

RStan, that’s the point I’m trying to make here. Yes they have stress gimmicks on the (2 remaining) named pilots, and yes you can feasibly pull off double mods in one round. I’m well aware of how rare and limited that is going to be in v2, at least initially. But again, there just isn’t much to them for v2. They remain a front firing arc “knife-fighter” dial with red 1-speed turns, 1-agility, a white barrel-roll, and a focus + barrel-roll linked action. What they have going for them right now is just efficiency for how bad their dial is, especially compared to the other 1-agility rebel heavies (exception being the SLAMing K-Wing).

From a fluff standpoint, it should not be an efficient and cheap heavy fighter. The things were intended to replace Y-Wings, and were loaded for Star Destroyer killing with a compliment of cannons and torpedoes. But their cost and difficulty to fly (see ref. heavily-red dial) made them uncommon. IMO, and it is just that, this is a case where the answer should not be “let’s just make it cheaper and more efficient.” And since that is the route it looks like they’re taking, I’m really worried about the B-Wings. Being able to run 5 in a list, or have double mods on Ibtism for as low as 50pts seems like an all-too-familiar cop-out that I’ve seen from other companies. Prime examples being a certain spacefairing greenskin race of bullet-catchers, or the SU-100 from a certain WW2 game.