I honestly don't think they are overcosted. They're very powerful and can soak up mistakes pretty well, making them fairly easy to use.

I think the trap that people may fall into when trying to get value out of them is either picking too many upgrades, picking the 'wrong' upgrades or simply not using the add ons in the right way. The frame itself will do work, if you're adding another 10-15 ineffectual points to it, then it's doing major harm to the efficiency of the rest of your list and feels like poor value. 3 Delta's in a list would be incredibly strong.

Saying that, it might be that Vessery is slightly overcosted compared to the others. With the basic price, it's not terribly easy to make the most of him through squadmates. To me, they're best as independent ships.

I do kind of think that Rex is definitely not 2 points 'worse' than Ryad as well, their cost could possibly be reversed. The I5 makes a fair difference. Small margins though.

Just as an afterthought, having seen/heard it mentioned a few times, an I6 Defender would just kill everything. I don't think you'd even need a pilot ability. I'd be tempted to run it solo with all the toys

If you take that 98 point Lando and try him against a 98 point Rexler (Juke, FCS, Proton Rockets, maybe?), I doubt you'd stand a chance. Either you move first and are outmaneuvered, or he shoots first, very quickly piling on the crits. I think the Defenders are priced mostly just right, but I think I'd set all three aces at 86, lower the Delta to 70 and the Onyx to 76. Those pilot abilites are definitely worth 10 points.

3 hours ago, Sciencius said:

Trick Shoot + Nien Numb + Lando (rebel) is a 98pt and 2 "actions of choice" for free every turn - this is insanely good value for points + can easily be made very scary with Perceptive co-pilot and Bistan allowing for shoots on two ships for 122pt, and still room for a tanky Wedge or a cheapish Luke, builds which would crush a dual TIE Defender Ace build.

I don't see equivalent points of Lando beating equivalent points of a Defender very often. He'll just so rarely do damage, even when he gets a shot.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

If you take that 98 point Lando and try him against a 98 point Rexler (Juke, FCS, Proton Rockets, maybe?), I doubt you'd stand a chance.

I'd take that bet. My 98p Rex is Outmanoeuvre and AS, a combo that works better on Ryad for sure, but I like it on both so I can cycle in and out, switch at will and not confuse myself....

If I'm moving 1st, I'm using rocks, making sure I have tokens and you have to boost for arc. Reducing your damage considerably, but not my own. If I'm moving second, you're lucky to get arc, getting crits on at least the 2nd round of shooting and crippled totally on the third.

Willing to be wrong, totally admit my overconfidence is my weakness but nevertheless, happy to put money on it not being any kind of walk over for any form of Lando.

Could be you misunderstood, but my point was that Lando doesn't stand a chance. Honestly I think even a naked Delta could give him a run for his money.

3 minutes ago, Okapi said:

Could be you misunderstood, but my point was that Lando doesn't stand a chance. Honestly I think even a naked Delta could give him a run for his money.

I did.

Agreed.

5 hours ago, Sciencius said:

2.0 Advanced Sensors+Juke+Vessery is currently 100pt: a powerful build capable of getting focus+evade in 2.0, but not when using advanced sensors then it is no mods; + also able to get a free a lock if a wing-mate helps him.

I keep hearing that this is ok i 2.0, as you do not get modifiers easily, however e.g.:

Trick Shoot + Nien Numb + Lando (rebel) is a 98pt and 2 "actions of choice" for free every turn - this is insanely good value for points + can easily be made very scary with Perceptive co-pilot and Bistan allowing for shoots on two ships for 122pt, and still room for a tanky Wedge or a cheapish Luke, builds which would crush a dual TIE Defender Ace build.

I would like to see some Mathwing comparing the efficiency for cost, I think the TIE Defenders are slightly overcosted. I would imagine there has to be room for two Juke+Defender Ace's and the lowest generic TIE Fighter as a blocker, which falls 5 points too short.

Same for the generics, as it is now you can fly 2 Delta Tie Defenders (I1) and Soontir (I6) !!, but not 3 Deltas.. If the Delta was 66pt, and not 72pt, it would be possible to run 3 Deltas, which I do not see setting the world on fire compared to e.g. 5 Barage Bombers/Jonus.

I hope when they balance points that the TIE Defender gets some love..

One pretty major difference between Lando and a Defender is that 13 HP behind 1 green die isn't really comparable to a 7 HP behind 3 green dice. A 1 green die ship will go down in time. Most attacks against it will chip in one at least. That's not really the case with a Defender. Between the Full Throttle Evade and their green dice, it's not too hard for them to shrug off attacks entirely. Chip damage won't do it, you'll need to concentrate fire.

I've flown Defenders in probably half my games so far, Init 1 Deltas in particular. They feel really right to me, and certainly not in need of a points cut.

The defenders are costed perfectly, and are worth every penny in my books.

I've been flying Rexler with Juke, and he deals solid damage and very rarely takes it with a focus and full throttle evade. As long as you avoid focus fire and don't get bombed they can take a beating.

Last game I played I had Rexler at range 1 of 0-0-0 Boba for 3 rounds at 1 hull and shook off all of Boba's shots. Dice will vary of course but they are very strong. This is one of the big cost ships FFG have nailed.

I miss double tapping, but I'm not particularly surprised it was removed in 2.0. Considering the price of these things, a 5pt configuration allowing it would seem fair.