21 hours ago, BDrafty said:

With cards like veteran tail gunner/ veteran gunner giving a primary shot and a turret or back arc shot, I don't see why the defender should not have a bonus attack. It should just cost a fair bit...

Most of those seem to be more cleaves than double-taps. That makes a big difference. TIE/D is a lot of fun; I've greatly enjoyed flying Rainbow Deltas with one-each Tractor, Flechette, and Ion. The focus-fire potential of those cannons is huge, and same kind of high-damage thing they seem like they're really trying to cut down on in 2E. I don't recall all the new cards, but most extra attack shots from gunners are against different arcs (thus ships). Don't get me wrong: splash/cleave/different target attacks are still really good, but I think a straight-up repeat of TIE/D is unlikely.

26 minutes ago, RedHotDice said:

So basically Imperial brobots, except no bro-abilty.

and thats my problem.. If I wanted to run 2 heavy well equiped aces with all the fixings - I would look to Brobots and perhaps twin-firesprays.

If I want to run triple heavy jousters where do I go?

Perhaps the Hammer & Anvil approach isn't in the Empire's faction identity?

I'm not saying I agree with that, we just may not be able to field a fleet of spacetanks.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I mean... Probably

But of course... that would be treason.

I would indeed.

2 hours ago, bydand said:

Perhaps the Hammer & Anvil approach isn't in the Empire's faction identity?

I'm not saying I agree with that, we just may not be able to field a fleet of spacetanks.

I think the Empire should.

I did some theorycrafting and point guesstimates and came up with this potential list...

198 Points

Onyx Squadron Ace (78)

Swarm Leader (8)

TIE/LN Black Squadron Pilot (28)

TIE/LN Black Squadron Pilot (28)

TIE/LN Black Squadron Pilot (28)

TIE/LN Black Squadron Pilot (28)

Just keep feeding evades to the Defender for 5 dice attacks. At least two TIEs will keep their evades and hopefully stay in the fight longer. I would add crackshot as a filler based on the cost of the Talent and cost of BSPs, or maybe a model on the Defender.

The "Swarmy tanky fighter" role has been shifted to the tie phantom. 2 less health than the new defender, and 1 less agility die, but free evade on the first round of the engagement, and easilly cheap enough to run 4 in a list now (you always could with naked sigmas, it just wasnt worth it), meaning you're bringing 6 more red dice (or the same red dice if there's a /d configuration) and 20 health to 14 health behind an extra defense.

9 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

The "Swarmy tanky fighter" role has been shifted to the tie phantom. 2 less health than the new defender, and 1 less agility die, but free evade on the first round of the engagement, and easilly cheap enough to run 4 in a list now (you always could with naked sigmas, it just wasnt worth it), meaning you're bringing 6 more red dice (or the same red dice if there's a /d configuration) and 20 health to 14 health behind an extra defense.

What does that list look like in 1.0. And 2.0.?

2 minutes ago, Shockley said:

What does that list look like in 1.0. And 2.0.?

In 1.0, it was just 4 Sigmas rocking 4 die primaries. Glass cannons.

In 2.0, the Phantom gained a health, lost an attack die, gained a built in Stigium for an evade on decloak, and recloaks at the end of the round if it didnt spend the evade. It lost access to FCS (barring targeting computer/Krennec) but avoids the restrictions on the new Advanced Sensors. We dont know how much the lowest cost generic is, but the implication in all interviews is that it is becoming cheaper. So an entirely different beast from the 1.0 version.

Afterburners on a defender http://xwing-miniatures-second-edition.wikia.com/wiki/Afterburners

Go 3-5 speed, boost and evade.

EDIT:

At first I thought afterburners was a free boost, but it is not. Free evade and boost and an action would be cool, but no such luck. And I guess that they already got the boost action (forgot that lol)

Also, guessing this has already been suggested, but with Juke surviving to 2.0, wonder if Juke will be au to include

34 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

Afterburners on a defender http://xwing-miniatures-second-edition.wikia.com/wiki/Afterburners

Go 3-5 speed, boost and evade.

EDIT:

At first I thought afterburners was a free boost, but it is not. Free evade and boost and an action would be cool, but no such luck. And I guess that they already got the boost action (forgot that lol)

Also, guessing this has already been suggested, but with Juke surviving to 2.0, wonder if Juke will be au to include

I think free actions aren't a thing anymore. Most people are interpreting that as a boost action outside of your normal action, since it specifies a timing window outside of your normal action phase. Who knows what the actual rules will say, though.

On 6/14/2018 at 6:39 PM, RedHotDice said:

So basically Imperial brobots, except no bro-abilty.

and thats my problem.. If I wanted to run 2 heavy well equiped aces with all the fixings - I would look to Brobots and perhaps twin-firesprays.

If I want to run triple heavy jousters where do I go?

I think the devs said You could run naked triple Brobots. So 66 points base cost. I think I might pick up another Aggressor

25 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

I think the devs said You could run naked triple Brobots. So 66 points base cost. I think I might pick up another Aggressor

That's some interesting information. The Aggressor has a stronger base statline and a pilot ability, probably access to a talent as well (arguably worse dial than the Defender, of course). So if that's 66, that makes it feel like the base 72 we've heard for the Defender is more like that I4 Onyx, not some I1 Delta.

So if that is the case for Brobots, I wonder if you could run 3 very cheap PS 1 Defenders. Sparse upgrades, etc.

Without a support ship, 3 defenders could never have more than 1 offensive mod, maybe even zero offensive mods if they reposition. But focus evade every turn, plus 3 greens and 21 HP could be really good.

1 hour ago, HanScottFirst said:

So if that is the case for Brobots, I wonder if you could run 3 very cheap PS 1 Defenders. Sparse upgrades, etc.

Without a support ship, 3 defenders could never have more than 1 offensive mod, maybe even zero offensive mods if they reposition. But focus evade every turn, plus 3 greens and 21 HP could be really good.

I think triple naked defenders are significantly better than triple naked Brobots.

Brobots can't get a free evade each turn and can't get focus/boost/barrelroll/targetlock + evade after a k turn. Brobots get a stress instead.

Also while Brobots have boost to free evade, and ability to share calculate tokens, they lose abilities as they die, while defenders are just as strong with only one left.

Brobots can't barrel roll at all and are medium base both downsides for arc dodging.

I think it'll be IGs, 65/66, Defenders 70+.

Just now, Scum4Life said:

I think it'll be IGs, 65/66, Defenders 70+.

I would have preferred defenders to not have gained a shield and ended up at no more than 66. But oh well.

Defenders should be mighty though. Especially given the buffs to the X wing. Two defenders should be something to be feared by four Red Squad X wings. Three makes them more "generic"...

Brobots had better slots.

I hope that will be matched on the Defenders this time around.

3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Brobots had better slots.

I hope that will be matched on the Defenders this time around.

Or at least make the upgrade costs appropriate so a system slot didn't typically result in comically underpriced rerolls.

FCS for our Defenders or we riot.

3 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

FCS for our Defenders or we riot.

System slot on every ship of the Advanced line!

TAP, aggressor, defender!

On 6/13/2018 at 6:59 PM, Commander Kaine said:

My complaint is exactly that. I want it to be true to itself, by having a doubletap and system slot.

I am all with you on the systems slot. It should absolutely have one, and probably will.

Regarding the double tap, i think if they are limited to 2 it could be a paid /D configuration card that just adds the double tap, or a free one that does, but deactivates the ship ability.

It would probably not be too bad for balance, regarding the price of this ship.

For pilots, my suspicion is that the 4 we have seen so far will be all there is in the Conversion kit. Having no I1 pilot makes perfect sense for this ship. The blister will then have 2 more, probably 2 named. Maarek and the new Rebels show elite Defender pilot maybe?

We have seen a few ships in the spoiled Rebel conversion kit where we have 4 pilot cards, like the A and B-Wing, so that might be the way they go.

I may be a bit confused or reading into the wording too much for full throttle as it say you may perform an evade action after completing a maneuver even though its in your action bar vs. the 1.0 x7 version where you may perform a free evade action. Wouldn't that only allow you to take an evade as your action since you normally take your action after you execute your maneuver assuming you didn't bump and not stressed?

On 10/13/2018 at 2:05 PM, Drusen2 said:

I may be a bit confused or reading into the wording too much for full throttle as it say you may perform an evade action after completing a maneuver even though its in your action bar vs. the 1.0 x7 version where you may perform a free evade action. Wouldn't that only allow you to take an evade as your action since you normally take your action after you execute your maneuver assuming you didn't bump and not stressed?

Free action is no longer a phrase that is used anywhere in 2nd edition. If an ability tells you to perform an action, it is a bonus action, not a restriction on what action you can perform during the perform action step.

I don't think I've read this before, quite interesting in hindsight.

Kudos to the folks that nailed 72pt for the Delta, 78pt for the Onyx and 88pt for Juke Rex!

Oh, and also anyone who predicted Rex would be a monster in 2.0....

2.0 Advanced Sensors+Juke+Vessery is currently 100pt: a powerful build capable of getting focus+evade in 2.0, but not when using advanced sensors then it is no mods; + also able to get a free a lock if a wing-mate helps him.

I keep hearing that this is ok i 2.0, as you do not get modifiers easily, however e.g.:

Trick Shoot + Nien Numb + Lando (rebel) is a 98pt and 2 "actions of choice" for free every turn - this is insanely good value for points + can easily be made very scary with Perceptive co-pilot and Bistan allowing for shoots on two ships for 122pt, and still room for a tanky Wedge or a cheapish Luke, builds which would crush a dual TIE Defender Ace build.

I would like to see some Mathwing comparing the efficiency for cost, I think the TIE Defenders are slightly overcosted. I would imagine there has to be room for two Juke+Defender Ace's and the lowest generic TIE Fighter as a blocker, which falls 5 points too short.

Same for the generics, as it is now you can fly 2 Delta Tie Defenders (I1) and Soontir (I6) !!, but not 3 Deltas.. If the Delta was 66pt, and not 72pt, it would be possible to run 3 Deltas, which I do not see setting the world on fire compared to e.g. 5 Barage Bombers/Jonus.

I hope when they balance points that the TIE Defender gets some love..