What we need is a high PS generic.

No ability other than innate ship stuff, but PS5/6 - considerably cheaper than the ability guys but still pricy due to the PS of course.

They'll use the damageless stuff (tractor, jam, to a degree ions)

37 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

What we need is a high PS generic.

No ability other than innate ship stuff, but PS5/6 - considerably cheaper than the ability guys but still pricy due to the PS of course.

They'll use the damageless stuff (tractor, jam, to a degree ions)

Don't disagree in principle but it could be setting up a balancing issue later on As stuff is added.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Jam doesn't remove Locks anymore.

Thematically that is so wrong. It is really a 'Distract' action.

range 1-2, on hit flash massive disco lighting, blare Lady Gaga and Distract target pilot.

Wait a moment, why are Ions bad now?

As far as i understood they are a blue 1 straight instead of white. And they only allow you a focus.

But that’s actually better than last edition, where you only were done for if you also were stressed. Token stackers were fine, as they kept stacking the turn after and you would not hit them anymore. Furthermore they could boost and barrel roll, which they can’t do now

The part where they really got worse is that they only ion things when they get 2 hits at least...

1 minute ago, McTavish said:

Thematically that is so wrong. It is really a 'Distract' action.

range 1-2, on hit flash massive disco lighting, blare Lady Gaga and Distract target pilot.

Yeah, jam should EXACTLY remove TLs and maybe Calculate and Reinforce (which should not be a green token either imho) it should not affect the focus (tokens) of a pilot nor keep a ship from evading...

Just makes no sense!

6 minutes ago, ForceM said:

The part where they really got worse is that they only ion things when they get 2 hits at least...

You also need 3 ion tokens for a large base.

Yeah but ions arent removed at the end of the turn, and since generic ion weapons can potentially cause multiple ion tokens its not that bad.

In the end its probably just as hard to ion a large ship as it was before, needing +1 token but being able to apply more than 1 token outside of ion ordnance softly nullifies that issue.

5 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

You also need 3 ion tokens for a large base.

Well, you needed 2 before, and considering most large ships have low agility, and with less mitigation now you should get the tokens nearly as fast on them.

The advantage is that if you have a ship ioned now, you know exactly where it is going to be, unless someone coordinates it or some weird shenanigans happen.

And it’s only going to have a Focus for defense. This makes it nearly as reliable as before and your control is actually better in my book.

Just throwing this out there. Have we seen the rules for jam tokens in 2e yet, or how certain are we that there’s no way Jam could work on target locks?

Also, even if it doesn’t apply to Locks now, why couldn’t it in the future? It wouldn’t have to be that complicated.

”A jam token requires the jammed ship to remove one token beneficial to that ship.” Define TLs as beneficial to the ship with matching number.

Or else, just add “green tokens and tokens with that ship’s number” for future-proofing.

Because red targetlocks are no longer a thing. Targetlocks are tied to the ship number, not a pair of tokens.

Jam would have to be worded very specifically to still affect a targetlock since there is no token on the jammed ship representing a targetlock

All of this makes me a bit sad. I was very psyched for the Reaper because of the jam action and Krennic, both of will seemingly be next to useless in 2.0. At this point I've cooled on the ship so much that I doubt I'll buy it, especially at the $30 price point. I get all the reasons for it, I'm just disappointed.

Things Jam screws over:

Reinforce

MF title

Poe

Intensity

Juke (if you shoot before the enemy)

Comm Relay

Enhanced Optics

Tie Phantoms's recloak

That's a lot of Resistance/First order stuff.

Don’t forget rexlar

Quote

Wait a moment, why are Ions bad now?

As far as i understood they are a blue 1 straight instead of white. And they only allow you a focus.

Actually, I think I read it’s a 2 straight, not a 1.

54 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

All of this makes me a bit sad. I was very psyched for the Reaper because of the jam action and Krennic, both of will seemingly be next to useless in 2.0. At this point I've cooled on the ship so much that I doubt I'll buy it, especially at the $30 price point. I get all the reasons for it, I'm just disappointed.

I preorded the tie reaper as it seemed amazing along with krennic.. then 2.0 came and made this new ship and character quite rubbish. Kinda feel that I have been scammed and missold.

59 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Don’t forget rexlar

So... You are going to attack at Range 1-2 with 3 dice, with no chance of dealing damage.... or you might attack with anything else, because if it is more dangerous, Rexlar will spend the evade anyway.

1 hour ago, Forgottenlore said:

Actually, I think I read it’s a 2 straight, not a 1.

That was referring to the result of revealing a red maneuver while stressed. Ion is blue 1 straight and no action but focus.

3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That was referring to the result of revealing a red maneuver while stressed. Ion is blue 1 straight and no action but focus.

Ah. Yeah, that was it.

6 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Jam doesn't remove Locks anymore. Like I've said in this thread before...

That's not what Alex said, jam removes green tokens and locks.

10 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

That's not what Alex said, jam removes green tokens and locks.

If that's true, it would help Jam out a bit. right now, I'm underwhelmed by it.

18 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

That's not what Alex said, jam removes green tokens and locks.

He also said Vader can combo with Advanced Sensors. That also contradicts the rules as we know them.

19 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

He also said Vader can combo with Advanced Sensors. That also contradicts the rules as we know them.

Sure, but he was probably thinking of Supernatural Reflexes, which is the default upgrade on Vader.

Look, Jamming Beam is trash in 2.0, even at zero points, but it has to be able to remove locks, otherwise the jam tokens serve almost zero purpose.

11 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but he was probably thinking of Supernatural Reflexes, which is the default upgrade on Vader.

Look, Jamming Beam is trash in 2.0, even at zero points, but it has to be able to remove locks, otherwise the jam tokens serve almost zero purpose.

But according to what we know, that's how they work. It removes green tokens, and Locks are no longer tokens on the attacker. Not just not green, no token of any kind.

I think there will be mechanics to remove Locks, but only from the Defender.

I want Jam tokens to work better, I really do, but FFG is being inconsistent in their communications, and more things suggest that Jam tokens do not remove Locks.

My real problem is that even if they do remove locks (they don't) jamming beam is still almost useless without a double tap. On low PS it just doesn't work, and Rexler Brath, fully kitted out, will probably be around half of your list. If you spend close to a 100 points on something, it's not worth it if it doesn't deal damage. Preventing a single missile/torpedo attack doesn't seem enough of a justification for this cost.

Maybe it will be better on a high Initiative Scyk, but I feel like even that combination is bound to be too expensive for what it does.

Jam tokens suck if they fall of the end of the turn. It makes very little sense to stack them, the action is severely limited by the Range 1 bubble (not to mention the Red Jam actions on many ships), the cannon is useless (the missile doesn't seem to exist)... They are all just bad. Like really bad.

The question is not even points cost. It's difficult to find a justification to fire these weapons when compared to any other attack. They had similar costs with the tractor beam in 1.0, I imagine, even if the Jamming beam is slightly cheaper, the Tractor beam will be just a better choice, all the time.

If you hit, you may move someone to a rock

AND you will decrease their agility value.

So far it seems the only valid targets against Jamming beams are the Ghost, Deci, Lambda and alike... Sure, it's fine that you can remove reinforce tokens, but I don't imagine the slight benefit of this weapon outweighs the opportunity cost and the situational nature of it.

Compare it to the idea if they stuck around. If they are too powerful, raise the cost. Problem solved. I don't understand the reasoning of FFG behind this. If you included control elements because its thematic, but you don't want them to be competitive, just raise their cost. But this design with the tokens falling off cannot be easily fixed. It's a major rule change involving cardboard, which means we will never see it. These upgrades would be bad if they came for free, but they might see SOME use then. This way? No chance.

1 hour ago, PanchoX1 said:

If that's true, it would help Jam out a bit. right now, I'm underwhelmed by it.

Are you saying Jam is in a jam?

4 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

But according to what we know, that's how they work. It removes green tokens, and Locks are no longer tokens on the attacker. Not just not green, no token of any kind.

You keep saying this, but they have mentioned it removing locks multiple times on stream. The Jam tokens are bad enough as is, there is no reason they would take removing locks away from them. What the **** else would you ever use them for?