So Ive heard alot of people talk about the UK games expo results show and how the most competitive Imperial list is....

Veers, 6 DLTs, and 3 Speeder Bikes

Why is this list so much more competitive than say....

Vader, 5 DLTs, 2 Speeder Bikes

Is it solely just because veers get more activations?

1 hour ago, Gun4hire said:

So Ive heard alot of people talk about the UK games expo results show and how the most competitive Imperial list is....

Veers, 6 DLTs, and 3 Speeder Bikes

Why is this list so much more competitive than say....

Vader, 5 DLTs, 2 Speeder Bikes

Is it solely just because veers get more activations?

I think a couple of reasons.

Yes, as you say, more activations. Activations are key.

Also, DLT Stormtroopers and Speeder Bikes are considered two of the strongest units in the game at the moment. You get 1 more of each of them with the Veers list.

Lastly, Veers is a support unit that strengthens the army, while Vader is a power-unit that has more toys to boost his own ability. Given that DLTs and Bikes are some of the most powerful units in the game, being able to buff them further via Veers is better than anything Vader can do for them.

That's my thought on it anyway. And I say this as someone that plays the Vader list. You've absolutely GOT to go big with Vader if you want the Vader list to compete.

Go big how and whats your vader list?

1 hour ago, Gun4hire said:

Go big how and whats your vader list?

I think what they mean is that Vader is so expensive that you have to get a lot of work done, be it killing or taking objectives, to justify his cost. The Veers list I think is just more forgiving of mistakes or bad rolls. If Vader gets out maneuvered, that's a quarter of your points that didn't do their job well enough. If you run one of your bikes poorly and they die before firing a shot, it's much less of a loss. I think as people play more and learn better tactics with individual units the "competitive" lists will vary much more. It's still pretty early.

So if the veers list is competitvely say a 10/10

Than what would the vader version be? 7/10 or 8/10 or 9/10?

11 hours ago, Gun4hire said:

So if the veers list is competitvely say a 10/10

Than what would the vader verauon be? 7/10 or 8/10 or 9/10?

Depends a lot on the player - that's hard to say - by maybe an 8/10?

Vader can just kind of get taken out of the game. He sort of blows at Long March setups for obvious reasons. But the morale bubble is very powerful along with his individual abilities. In a standard setup with something like Intercept the Transmissions he has a good chance to own two objectives with proper backup.

I've been running Vader, 3 Bikes, 3 DLTs, and one Snowflame and it's been very fun. Maybe not completely point optimal, but Vader with a unit of Snowies and a unit of Stormies is a tough combination to stand up against. And three bikes give people fits. There is always one able to shoot at just about everyone. It makes target priority tough, and they can't be suppressed.

Doesnt Leia troop spam with z6 and 3xRotary walker stand up to this list. You can even fit a fleet trooper in there....all troops max 6man.

Outnumber Veers...you might get supressed but you prolly arent aiming anyway. Sheer wieght of fire as equaliser.

Then again, terrain matters against that Veers list....alot. If you can fire 6 DLTs at max range every turn, you prolly arent playing with enough Terrain.

On a properly built table, the Leia list would smoke Veers by # of shots fired and accurate base weapons.

We were promised an article by Nicky Myland explaining how his use of Veers and Speeder Bikes earned him second place at UK Games Expo (beyond simply putting them in his list).
Star Wars Legion Command teased us with "So he basically never moves with them other than the compulsory move. and he keeps veers at the front. he will be doing an artical on his list this week."
I'm quite keen to read the article!

The number of activations is a key factor in Legion. 10 activations is the maximum at the moment. This is either Veers + 6 Troopers + 3 Bikes or Leia + 6 Troopers + 3 AT-RTs. So expect to see both lists quite often.

On top of that, you can hear quite often, that Vader is too slow and the AT-ST as well as the T47 are not worth their points.

Nonetheless, I've seen an AT-ST's Mortar panic enemy troopers of the battlefield round 1. I've seen Luke win a game more or less without killing something, but just by taking a critical mission objective at the right time. I've seen double T47s dominate the battlefield. I've seen 3 units of bikes die in one round.

tl,dr

I don't think, that there is a "the most competitive list" right now. I think it depends more on the player than on the list, who wins.

By competitive, i mean if a list compared to other lists, piloted all by the same high skill level player, has a higher win percentage compared to the rest of the field.

I understand that. Still I think, that there is no single list with a SIGNIFICANTLY higher percentage.

Doesnt have to be significantly higher. In magic the gathering if a deck has 60-70% win percentage its considered overpowered. So even if a list is only favored 55-65% win over other lists it would be the better list.

I would like to say that I ran this exact army at our local tournament this past weekend and faced no trouble with it. I went 3-0 with all of my opponents conceding by round 3/4, or 20-30 mins of play left (2 hour game limit). Now, I would say I am a very "strong" player. I have been playing miniatures games for approx 15 years, and have had at least 15-20 games of competitive legion in already. I do agree with both of you on that a better player with a worse army "on paper" can still win or even certain situations, i.e. terrain, objectives, critical dice rolls, may cause the tide of battle to switch sides from the "stronger" player, on the other hand I do believe that at this stage there are definitely better armies "on paper". I felt this army was proved the second case more than the first one. I faced 3 opponents who all had at least 1 AT-ST, one ran 2 of them. I decided to focus fire on these immediately out of the gate round 1 in each one of my games. With DLT's range 4, and having 6 of them. And then on top of that having 3 groups of bikes with Impact 2 (one each) I killed the AT-ST's mid round 2 with ease. I do hope we see FFG change the "meta" in the future from these trooper spam armies. I do not believe that it is the over activation aspect that makes this army so powerful. I believe it is the amount of HP this army has to absorb and the large amount of firepower it puts out.

I think the weakness to this army is if you are dumb with veers and get him killed. If that happens you're going to lose, because your troopers will start running with 2 suppression on them. If I were playing my Vader, 5 troop, 2 bike squad I would try and get Vader up close as fast as possible to kill veers or suppress the **** out of his/her troops with Master of Evil.

Another note: I would never take an AT-ST in a tournament currently. I feel they are incredibly weak at this point. 2x bikers is the much better option IMO.

Just my thoughts, let me know if you agree or disagree.

Yeah and FFG hasnt shown anything that i would replace the 6 DLTs or 3 bikes with. So it looks like were stuck with this meta for awhile. Even if they bring out new vehicles. 6 DLTs with impact and range 4 will shut down all armor vehicles unless something changes.

Well the E-Web provid a very different, yet still interesting, alternative to bikes. Totally different roles of course, but I think just these may prove interesting.

The ewebs cumbersome, no impact, and standby range 3 will hurt it too much. Range 3 standby will be useless againt range 4 DLTs and laser at-rts. They might see some play at first for fun but not competitively.

9 minutes ago, Gun4hire said:

The ewebs cumbersome, no impact, and standby range 3 will hurt it too much. Range 3 standby will be useless againt range 4 DLTs and laser at-rts. They might see some play at first for fun but not competitively.

55 points, super cheap, good tool to hold onto an area, and standby at range three is actually good against most stuff.

As for the list in this thread, I am yet to win more than two matches against it. I won against it on a disarray match but it was mostly misplays by the opponent, and a long march where his bikes got stuck by height 2 terrain I placed for that very purpose.

It is still an obnoxiously strong list that regular rebel lists will struggle against: So much impact wrecks the (currently) mandatory AR-RTs, and the imperial horde is extremely durable with its red defence dice.

Veers (Esteemed leader, you do not want to lose him)
Stormtroopers, additional dude, DLT, Impact grenades: The AT-RT flamer deterrant
Stormtroopers, additional dude, DLT
Stormtroopers, DLT, Grappling hooks (because you sometimes want to climp a building with them to get the vantage points, and it's cheap)
3x Stormtroopers, DLT
3x Bikes
794 points.

With this list, you will
1) always be blue player (6 points under 800) -> Deploy objectives so you do not have to move
2) Have a flamer-scarer
3) Have a massive range advantage against all opponents -> Crossfires + making the opponent get to you -> You'll be able to aim and shoot most of the time.
4) 32 Red defence dice HP + 36 white defence surge cover 1 HP.
5) immense amount of suppression
6) good amount of impact
7) Hammer of god with the three bikes that if used together can crush any flank and then move up the line while the rest of the line is suppressed by DLTs. Execution of this only relies on a bit of timing.

Deploy all your troops in a bib blob around veers, get a position, and alamo it, while your bikes are left in reserve to hit stuff later on.

What we're missing is AoE weapons really.

I agree that Fett is our only hope of breaking the 6 troops 3 bikes list, eweb aint goin to do it.

But i feel Boba is expensive at 140 points naked. U give up a unit of speeder bikes and a dlt squad.

For an almost invincible (3+ saves in this game are huge) homing missile that laughs at terrain that can bring you victory because it can kill its target for an additional VP?
It's really great because of its mobility (speed 3 with no facing, ability to jump height 2), acceptable firepower ignoring cover with pierce 1, chance to turn the battle to your advantage (bounty), great armour (and unlike say bikes, has a very easy time getting heavy cover).

Played a battle against it in the TTS and only managed to counter it by knowing it well and thus tying it down in melee with multiple units so it couldn't just jump out with its initiative 1 command card. It forced me to spend lots of time planning around it because otherwise he'd have jsut shredded my leia and later my Han.

On 6/21/2018 at 12:11 AM, Gun4hire said:

But i feel Boba is expensive at 140 points naked. U give up a unit of speeder bikes and a dlt squad.

Totally worth it.

As Deuzerre was saying, apart from the model's damage output and utility, Boba is currently unique in offering a brand new scorable objective that only his side gets access to.

There are some mission combinations with equal objectives and distance deployments that often end in draws -and now one side has a unique way to score a win.

On 6/21/2018 at 3:06 AM, Deuzerre said:

Played a battle against it in the TTS and only managed to counter it by knowing it well and thus tying it down in melee with multiple units so it couldn't just jump out with its initiative 1 command card. It forced me to spend lots of time planning around it because otherwise he'd have jsut shredded my leia and later my Han.

So you put more than one unit into base contact so he couldn't whipcord them both to escape? Good idea

Actually, Boba Fett is a scoring machine on the regular objectives AND can generate an additional VP. I'm so looking forward to drop whatever necessary to put him in my list ...