3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Wouldn't it be unique in 1.0 though? That makes it quite a different proposition. A white stop would be generic, so you simply sit everyone in the corner with arcs out and your whole squad becomes impossible to dodge or out manoeuvre. Quite possibly the epitome of NPE, lol.

My boys really like the rare moves. If they can stop, they'll dial it in on the 1st turn every time

The only reason they're interested in the Quadjumper is because it can reverse.

Okay. I can acknowledge that one unique combo is different than spamming a bunch of generics. ....but would it be game breaking. I guess the way to find out is to proxy a white stop into an existing ship and give it a whirl.

Meantime though we have this! (all ships have renegade retro)

Saw: wingman, fcs, kyle katarn, weapons eng (or crew of your choice)

Cassian: crackshot (or whatever), sensor jammer, ezra, hera

Benthic Two Tubes: adv sensors, recon spec, rey (or jan ors or crew of choice)

With 4 pts left over for mods or other minor tweaks.

Cassians perma stressed but getting modifiers from Saw and Ezra, plus he gets a focus from Benthic.

Benthic adv sens for focus and can build up a Rey stack. He also gets his stress taken away by Saws wingman ept.

Saw: loses his stress from Cassian, gets a focus from kyle, and modifiers and flexibility from fcs and weapons engineer.

3 ships that can park in a corner with modifiers!

And then you come in from the side out of arc of most of them, and nuke one to death in a round, probably Saw, and then the whole thing falls apart.

58 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

And then you come in from the side out of arc of most of them, and nuke one to death in a round, probably Saw, and then the whole thing falls apart.

Oh I dunno, must be able to manoeuvre them so they all face diagonally outwards and cover the approaches somehow. Then the opponent just has to land the perfect sloop/kturn into the tiny space behind, lol.

Either way, an interesting thought experiment but there's no way I'd contemplate actually trying it. I'm a 5 fwd must start shooting asap kinda guy

It's impossible to gover all the approaches - the arc is only 80-ish degrees, and can't start right at the edge of the board.

Fortresses will never not be stupid.

On 6/8/2018 at 11:52 AM, TasteTheRainbow said:

Regular TIE Fighters on lothal definitely have a stop maneuver. Also they can just fly sideways.

But do we seem them do this in space/zero g?

They only do these funky manoeuvres when in atmosphere - which likely means that repulsors function a certain way, while ion engines are different.

Here's how I've always seen it: all ships can "stop" otherwise they'd be unable to ever land, but it's not realistic for many ships to stop in a dogfight combat situation.

//

If there were a White stop, the power of it wouldn't be in a permanently still fortress, but in a ship which can move so little on demand. Anyone who's flown a YV or Lambda knows that sometimes that stall is amazingly useful. Even if you never pulled two in a row, being able to have an action and a clear dial the next turn would be huge. I don't think it'd be game-breaking per se (I don't think pure fortress strats are super strong), but the tactical benefits to just stalling at will would be strong. It'd be like a Defender with that White K-Turn, I'd guess.

Anyhow, it'd be interesting to see some sort of stall-ship with a configuration which let them stall once as white, but then it turned to red. I know if I were doing a Babylon 5 Starfury in X-Wing terms, it'd have a configuration where, after making a Red K-Turn, S-Loop, or Reverse, it'd turn your 1-straight reverse Green until you boost, barrel roll, or do a non-1-straight-reverse move. The Earth Starfury fighters are often flipping around and letting momentum and even reverse thrusters carry them back for long distances. That'd be a fun trick on a ship with a TIE-like statline.

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's impossible to gover all the approaches - the arc is only 80-ish degrees, and can't start right at the edge of the board.

Fortresses will never not be stupid.

If anybody puts up a fortress against you, you may throw a brick in their face. I allow it.

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's how I've always seen it: all ships can "stop" otherwise they'd be unable to ever land, but it's not realistic for many ships to stop in a dogfight combat situation.

//

If there were a White stop, the power of it wouldn't be in a permanently still fortress, but in a ship which can move so little on demand. Anyone who's flown a YV or Lambda knows that sometimes that stall is amazingly useful. Even if you never pulled two in a row, being able to have an action and a clear dial the next turn would be huge. I don't think it'd be game-breaking per se (I don't think pure fortress strats are super strong), but the tactical benefits to just stalling at will would be strong. It'd be like a Defender with that White K-Turn, I'd guess.

Anyhow, it'd be interesting to see some sort of stall-ship with a configuration which let them stall once as white, but then it turned to red. I know if I were doing a Babylon 5 Starfury in X-Wing terms, it'd have a configuration where, after making a Red K-Turn, S-Loop, or Reverse, it'd turn your 1-straight reverse Green until you boost, barrel roll, or do a non-1-straight-reverse move. The Earth Starfury fighters are often flipping around and letting momentum and even reverse thrusters carry them back for long distances. That'd be a fun trick on a ship with a TIE-like statline.

Suggested pilot ability:

3 energy, regenerates. When you reveal your dial, you may spend 3 energy to reduce the difficulty of the chosen maneuver.

Could be too strong on some chassis, of course - white tallon/sloop/K is strong, but on a shuttle type dial? That should be fine.

1 hour ago, Polaritie said:

Suggested pilot ability:

3 energy, regenerates. When you reveal your dial, you may spend 3 energy to reduce the difficulty of the chosen maneuver.

Could be too strong on some chassis, of course - white tallon/sloop/K is strong, but on a shuttle type dial? That should be fine.

White stop, red stop, green 1-straight. Doesn't really seem all that broken. I might make it a large ship only modification instead though, just so that you can take advantage of it on ships like the Hound's Tooth, Upsilon and a few others rather than making it an exclusive (and weak) pilot ability.

9 hours ago, Polaritie said:

Suggested pilot ability:

3 energy, regenerates. When you reveal your dial, you may spend 3 energy to reduce the difficulty of the chosen maneuver.

Could be too strong on some chassis, of course - white tallon/sloop/K is strong, but on a shuttle type dial? That should be fine.

That'd be a really fun pilot ability. And honestly, I don't think it'd be broken on any chassis I've seen. On a TIE Defender? More flexible but not necessarily more powerful than Countess Ryad. Pulling a white hard 1 would be nice, as would a blue/green hard 3. TIE/SF? Still fine, I think. Even something like a Starviper or X-Wing. I'd probably want it on a lower PS or Initiative ship, but lots of ships have had a conditional ability clear stress from moves, and while it's frequently been pretty good, it's seldom been completely game-breaking. Adrenaline Rush has never been close to broken. With this pilot ability being mostly a (sometimes) reusable Adrenaline Rush, I think it'd be fine. The fact that it requires a hefty charge build-up goes a long way. Depending on playtesting, I could see if it needed to be four charges, but still. I think that'd probably be a fair pilot ability on almost any ship (but I don't want it crew...).

White S-Loop on the Jumpmaster was bad because: [1] they were under-priced [2] Torpedos [3] many builds were designed to get focus tokens while stressed. Attanni Mindlink and Manaroo (both pre-nerfs) would make it so that a ship could easily pull a S-Loop while stressed and still gain focus tokens (as well as R4 Agromech Target Locks). The outer edges of stress mechanics in 1E are kinda silly. Something like Stress Ezra or OG Dengaroo were broken AF, since stress is only an issue on ships which are kitted out to work without stress. Anyhow, that's one issue where the designers kinda dropped the ball in 1E, IMHO. With the Jumpmaster specifically, I bet FFG figured "well, this ship is a turret, the S-Loop won't matter since it can shoot any direction anyhow" and that's partly true, but Dengar had an arced ability, and torpedos vastly increased the offense of the ships. The totally of it was the problem, not a specific maneuver. TIE Defenders with their white 4-K weren't really a problem, because they were kinda over-costed. Pre-nerf TIE/x7 title was a bit strong, but the ship is fair.

As a happy (killing machine) TIE Bomber Pilot in online XvT many moons ago, I have to say that a stationary Y wing or Gunboat was always my feared enemy! They could take my hits and turn and paralyse me for an easy kill. I coudn´ t commit shots against a competent pilot for more than a couple of seconds before having to turn away.. (to leave him as an easy kill for someone else)

I was always surprised that some ships don´ t get a stationary turn, personally, let alone the stop order.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

That'd be a really fun pilot ability. And honestly, I don't think it'd be broken on any chassis I've seen. On a TIE Defender? More flexible but not necessarily more powerful than Countess Ryad. Pulling a white hard 1 would be nice, as would a blue/green hard 3. TIE/SF? Still fine, I think. Even something like a Starviper or X-Wing. I'd probably want it on a lower PS or Initiative ship, but lots of ships have had a conditional ability clear stress from moves, and while it's frequently been pretty good, it's seldom been completely game-breaking. Adrenaline Rush has never been close to broken. With this pilot ability being mostly a (sometimes) reusable Adrenaline Rush, I think it'd be fine. The fact that it requires a hefty charge build-up goes a long way. Depending on playtesting, I could see if it needed to be four charges, but still. I think that'd probably be a fair pilot ability on almost any ship (but I don't want it crew...).

White S-Loop on the Jumpmaster was bad because: [1] they were under-priced [2] Torpedos [3] many builds were designed to get focus tokens while stressed. Attanni Mindlink and Manaroo (both pre-nerfs) would make it so that a ship could easily pull a S-Loop while stressed and still gain focus tokens (as well as R4 Agromech Target Locks). The outer edges of stress mechanics in 1E are kinda silly. Something like Stress Ezra or OG Dengaroo were broken AF, since stress is only an issue on ships which are kitted out to work without stress. Anyhow, that's one issue where the designers kinda dropped the ball in 1E, IMHO. With the Jumpmaster specifically, I bet FFG figured "well, this ship is a turret, the S-Loop won't matter since it can shoot any direction anyhow" and that's partly true, but Dengar had an arced ability, and torpedos vastly increased the offense of the ships. The totally of it was the problem, not a specific maneuver. TIE Defenders with their white 4-K weren't really a problem, because they were kinda over-costed. Pre-nerf TIE/x7 title was a bit strong, but the ship is fair.

Yeah, I was worried about what would happen on something really agile, or with lots of turnaround maneuvers, but it's probably fine even then. Or just make that how Adrenaline Rush works.

On 6/9/2018 at 7:58 AM, mazz0 said:

tl;dw. Is there a written version?

tl:dr 10 minuets is not a long time. I'm not wasting my time just so you can make some 3 second dismissal because you can't figure out how to use the close captioning transcript.

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

tl:dr 10 minuets is not a long time. I'm not wasting my time just so you can make some 3 second dismissal because you can't figure out how to use the close captioning transcript.

There’s a transcript? Seems like you could have been helpful and said how to access it instead of criticising me for not knowing and everyone would have been happy.

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

There’s a transcript? Seems like you could have been helpful and said how to access it instead of criticising me for not knowing and everyone would have been happy.

I was mostly criticizing your clever use of the Too Long; Don't Read tag.

Anyways back on topic. More stop maneuvers is good for many support ships that don't have reversal options or only red hard turns. But again it does run the risk of fortressing becoming a meta. Wasn't there one final round for swiss and the top cut resulted in one player fortressing and another player realizing that he had more red dice. It would be better for him just to draw it out to final volley.

I think the devs just got more cautious about ship design in 2.0. This translates into more stops as it's just safer to avoid bumping.

10 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I was mostly criticizing your clever use of the Too Long; Don't Read tag.

Anyways back on topic. More stop maneuvers is good for many support ships that don't have reversal options or only red hard turns. But again it does run the risk of fortressing becoming a meta. Wasn't there one final round for swiss and the top cut resulted in one player fortressing and another player realizing that he had more red dice. It would be better for him just to draw it out to final volley.

I always though it was "Too Long; Didn't Read". Don't Read makes it seem quite unpleasant.