Player characters in my game are going through a vignette that came about due to a Gellar Breach.

During the course of their investigation into the Daemonic Incursion they stumbled upon the private sanctum of the Legatine Crusader who leads the Sororitas on board the vessel taking them to their current mission destination. This occurred when not one but two players scored an aught seven on their searches of the Chapel and then an aught one was scored to open the door....really they earned discovery of this room....

Now this Legatine Crusader had some very very nice Ascended level gear in her private sanctum. The player characters decided (wisely) to leave her gear behind but they stole a sealed box of Munitorium Ammo of a most rare variety. We are talking about bullets most folks will NEVER see in their lives that cost a LOT of Imperial Gelt. They also took plenty of ammunition for themselves of more normal varieties.

These rounds were her "ace in the hole" for her part in the final battle of the vignette. Aside from now having gimped their NPC assistant (heavy losses to her damage during final battle; of four clips the players have already burnt two clips of this priceless ammunition), what punishment is fitting for the theft of a Legatine Crusader Mother's personal ammo stores?

Alexis

*smiles*

Also note the players have been using these priceless rounds to shoot the equivalent of rats, bugs, or trash.....corrupted servitors.... one shotting them yes...but so far two characters have burnt one clip each on what amounts to trash monsters with no real value.....

Oh I cannot wait til they really need someone with these and all are shot off.

Alexis

*smiles*

An influence penalty seems appropriate, assuming she is aware that the PCs are responsible for the theft if they're of the status of ascended Throne Agents (more severe penalties may be appropriate otherwise). Consider the entry "Borrowing with No Intention to Return" on Page 17 of Ascension.

They are most certainly not Ascended. They are mooks compared to her. They are Rank 3 Acolytes who got REALLY lucky on some rolls and then did not think about their actions ramifications beyond, I can kill things better for 16 shots..(2 characters took 2 clips each)... Even failing to heed their Prime who advised they not steal from their bosses and or their bosses friends.

Alexis

*smiles*

If she's aware of their responsibility? Loss of an arm/hand at the very least unless their superiors see fit to intercede. Normally death would be appropriate, but they are Inquisitorial Acolytes (and PCs).

Well, it depends. If the players a noble, clerics or tech-priests or inquisitors they are not a part of the Adeptus Terra, and has the right to a trial from The Chancellery Court on Solomon. If the Sister knows that the players are a part of the inquisition, they are in a grey zone. Then it's up to the sister whatever is going to happen, most likely she will turn them in to their inquisitor and leave the punishment to him/her. If they are nothing of this, they will be executed for theft of imperial property.

I think an arm is the loss the two who took the ammo might suffer, hand if they can blather/repent/confess/earn brownie points enough to warrant a lesser warning. That seems appropriate and fits the Legatines style. She cannot outright kill them they are too Important to the Inquisitor who sent her to carry them....She will also see them fitted with normal quality replacements (sadly a benefit to one of the thieves) before they reach their destination, so they can finish their job and to not arouse the ire of their Inquisitor; of whom she is a close ally.

However one is a Sister, and therein lies my largest conundrum and hers. Both she as a Legatine and the Inquisitor as her Inquisitor have rights over this woman. The Sister in question was the one who with the Prime's help stopped the players from taking the Legatine's Sanctified Customized Accurate Bolt Pistols with Red Dots, Or her Hexagrammatically Warded PA. But she did not hesitate to crack the sealed Munitorium box and load up on priceless ammo. And proceed to waste it so she could feel tough one shotting servitors.

The ammo in question had to be custom built. Its based off the assassin ammo, but not quite as icky. Its rarity is Near Unique and it is only manufactured in a few places in the Imperium. Replacing this will take the Legatine a decent year or more and getting more is not guaranteed based on current Ordo Malleus orders (would have to roll) that may or may not need to be filled. There is usually a waiting list for this ammuntion, the Legatine was saving it for a seriously rainy day and the only reason she is not loaded up is their ship (medium sized, by no means small) is semi dead in warp and she is separated from her Sanctum. Another reason the Acolytes, so young as they are get a chance to "star" in such a dramatic story. Part of the story is the shoehorning them into areas I want them to go on the ship by restricting power, lifts and doors and forcing them to work their way to the Engineerium and then the Bridge.

They will meet her later. If the ammo is spent she will not know immediately. If the ammo is not spent she will recognize it when they use it or load their second clip in her sight if they do.

They have however left a trail of enough evidence to point to them for the theft. She will "likely" find out, though bad rolls on her end could still lead to her not finding out.

I believe the Sister will confess. Not sure about the Tech Priest. Or how he will handle it.

Boy are they enjoying popping off those rounds. Looking forward to next game.

Alexis

*smiles*

The Sister would probably incur a severe beating/lashing, one that's enough to potentially, and permanently cost her a small amount of Toughness (1d5) and/or incur temporary Toughness Damage (2d10 - Toughness Bonus) and Insanity Points (2d5 - Willpower Bonus), assuming she is not outright dismissed from the Adepta Sororitas. Should she confess, and her role in preventing greater theft come to light, I'd say only the former (loss of Toughness, and accumulation of Toughness Damage and Insanity) would apply.

Well, she'll charge the loss back to their Inquisitor, depending on his personality will probably be either end up compensating her out of his own wallet to maintain some influence with the sisters, because they're not exactly people you want to annoy, or in some kind of favour that he's probably not going to really want to have hanging over his head. Either way, if he was my inquisitor, he'd be really deeply ashamed more than anything and its a bit hard not to take that personally. On a snap decision, he'd probably offhandedly freem one of them real toasty with an inferno pistol (at random a completely random lucky dice roll by the PCs) as a learning experience to the others, but if he had a bit of time to think about it, the punishment would be much more terrible.

They like ammo huh? Give them a job to run some supplies for the departmento munitorium on Tranch and be sure to look out for heresy, it'll get jacked one way or another, things will go downhill from that point on. Its that kind of **** hole, getting home could be interesting. Maybe they get adopted by a kindly Colonel Kurtz out the back of nowhere fighting a forgotten guerilla war against the mutants with some tribal ferals, who doesn't want them to leave because the nice people bought him some ammo... course he worships Khorne (probably unknowingly) and feel free to hand out all sorts of insanity points from the sheer amount of blood, savagery and a bit of warp tainted corruption from hanging out with people that like to make a point of murdering horribly anyone who isn't 'with them'

Either that or death by Snoo Snoo

Well the charge back is going to be a matter of course. The Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lenora Vestrelli will herself have to help replace said ammuntion. And is of course going to be VERY embarrassed to have put thieves on board the vessel of her dear friend the Legatine. She will give the Legatine rights to deal punishment as she sees fit, up to and including the death of her Acolytes. She will however remind the Legatine that her current mission is of the utmost import and should be taken into account.

The Prime is my last query on how to deal with.

The Legatine is not aware of who the "Prime" is, but the Prime is the type of guy to stand up and take responsibility for not stopping his subordinates. He will not be "found out" as he will step up and implicate himself freely, I know the player. So she will know of the Prime, of his failure to stop the others and of his honor in standing up for his part in the wrong doing.

Would he share in the arm punishment? The beating? Both? Neither and only reported to the Inquisitor since he did not himself slight the Legatine with anything more than a failure to stop his subordinates? Worse for the same reason?

The Inquisitor cannot afford to ship them off, especially the Prime, as he is one of her most trusted servants. So she will hope her relation with the Legatine leaves her with said servants after punishment is said and done. Else she will have find more people for this very delicate operation.

The vignette was not planned and was due to a really poor Navi roll, followed by a pair of 00s on my own personal Warp happenstance charts. So the characters are needed beyond this so I do not really want to kill them outright, especially if they manage to stop the Daemonic presence on board.

Alexis

*smiles*

I'd say the Prime would certainly share in the blame if he is responsible for the actions of his underlings as he failed to stop their transgressions. His own punishment should be at least as severe as either of them, and perhaps he may be subject to both. Alternatively, as a small mercy and reward for his honesty and candour, you can allow him to choose between the two consequences. He must be shown that failure cannot be tolerated, including in the execution of his leadership.

Lasers said:

I concur. The Prime should have known better, why else was he given the post? He should receive extra punishment for incompetence. You either are the cell leader with responsibility or you are not. Simple as that.

If the players are "mooks" compared to the powerlevel of the npc, what would they do to mooks who stole from them? usually kill them and spout some kind of "you seal from me, you steal from the Emperor" kind of rubbish as way of excuse for their actions.

I say kill the players to show them that they're mooks in your eyes and in the npc's eyes.

*shrug*

Velvetears said:

By mooks I meant in relative power level not in "how I see them". They are the Heroes To Be in my mind. Unforged untested younglings just coming into the Acolyte "own" as it were.

That their growth will come through hardship and sacrifice, is without saying. Such is it for all the Emperor's Children. They were chosen for their unique skillsets and unique abilities to be utilized in a mission of the utmost import to Ordo Malleus. Referring to them as mooks in relative power level is no way a sign of disdain held by me for their characters its just a fact of the relativity. At Rank 3 you are very little compared to a Rank 14 character.

However said Rank 14 character is separated from the area this is transpiring in, and so our less than likely heroes, plucked from near anonomity must rise to the challenge. Their theft was a simple lack of foresight on their part. Their minds were in the right place, partially at least. "This will help us kill the Daemonic Presence better, let's take them!"

I believe that the general feeling I have towards their punishment is that the Sister will be beaten as per the earlier suggestion. The Tech Priest unless he gets political with things will suffer a limb removal and not have it replaced til just prior to arrival to teach him a lesson. The Prime will be allowed to choose between the two punishments due to stepping up and taking/owning his responsibility but will have the Inquisitor to face for his failure as a leader later.

But as I said they are not disposable, The Inquisitor would be greatly set back to lose them, but the relation she has with the Legatine is alot more valuable than up and coming Acolytes. So she will leave it to the Legatine who will act as I have now decided.

Thank you all for the input, looking forward to the next session, my players all seemed to have truly enjoyed themselves.

Alexis

*smiles*

No complaints so far from the groups i run and play in, we all know the setting for what it is, we've been gaming and wargaming together since (original) Rogue Trader and 1st ed WHF, so no players run away as yet

WH (F or 40k) in all its formats has always been "Do Before You Get Done" and thats how the group play it; cautiously with death around every corner if they say the wrong thing or look at someone the wrong way.

Velvetears said:

Inquisitors that last any decent amount of time in the 41st millenium aren't that wasteful. Executing everything which displeases them is a surefire way to lose any form of Influence from everyone with whom you share resources or political clout. Suddenly the Ad Mech doesn't want to sent you their most successful students anymore, and suddenly that noble house whos son (heir to the throne) you executed is plotting with some of their shadier contacts to have you delivered personally to The Emperor for such a long and rewarding life.

Unless they truly are worthless and without ties (like a nameless guardsman, adept, or scum - and even then I'd be hesitant because you said your inquisitor likes them and considers them useful), it'd be best just to teach them a lasting impression. Losing hands is a pretty standard one for thieves. Perhaps you could even do something which wouldn't have as much of a "mechanical" penalty, but would surely mess with your characters. Having their interrogator chastising them for "following their nose" while surgically removing their sense of smell would be pretty harsh.

The best one I've heard of is a trigger-happy Metallican Gunslinger losing his trigger fingers. He ended up getting over it and modifying his pistols to fire with the next finger down, but **** if the whole thing wasn't a cool story.

I think death would be the most likely sentence, but since you don't really want to make your PCs start over from scratch, you can have them beaten within an inch of their lives - the sort of thing that should have killed them - and make them each burn a Fate Point to miraculously survive. Have the Legatine say the Emperor must have forgiven them if they could live through the beatings, and have that be the end of it.

Ophilia Midkiff said:

I like this idea, but perhaps make this some sort of "Trial of Faith" instead. I like the fate point burning idea but I think it would be better if the players were told that their faith was being put on the line, rather than just have their executions fail. Perhaps have them walk through some sort of melta-enhanced flames, or have them injected with a virulent virus or toxin and see if the Emperor spares them. Something a little more ritualized than a bullet to the head but no less deadly.

Trusted agents or not, it sounds like that ammunition had a value similar to or in excess of the Acolytes themselves. Now, if they had simply kept the ammunition then perhaps they would just get a slap on the wrist. However, they squandered it. Squandering such valuable ammo in itself would merit a severe penalty for wasting the Emperor's provisions, in my book. However, this was ammunition meant for a greater purpose. Many may die for their theft if the Legatine can't make the shot because of two bit thieves that call themselves Acolytes.

I had a simular case, have the Prime cut off the offenders hands....or execute him...

I just spent an hour looking for my Primer, without success. (Since i'm no guardman you can't shoot me for loosing it ^^ )

But if memory serves, the penalty for a guardsmen for stealing is public flogging and beating.

In game terms that would result in some lost Wounds, some Toughness damage and even some small permanent Toughness damage. Plus a few Insanity points. The severety of the crime should fit the punishment, and stealing from such a high ranked persona should result in at least 50 lashes.

Why no hand-choping? Getting even a crude biotic replacement installed would take days, lashing wounds don't keep the soldier from fighting any day.

Death or acroflagellation if they get got and no higher up wants to burn favors to save them (Fate Point burning could arrange that). This is 40K. This is what happens when you steal from powerful people and get caught.

If this were strict, "canon only": summary execution, or any number of mutilations

What I'd suggest doing: Sending the acolytes on a mission to repay the debt in a karmic sense, have their name tarnished and be offered a chance to do something to clear their reputation later, have them need to accrue some money to pay the NPC back and give them the oppurtunity to take a job(s) to get the cash, etc. Just do SOMEthing that adds to the story; offing a character with the only justification being "well it's what would really happen" is a lame cop-out that doesn't require any imagination.

I'd ask your players why they felt the need to search the room in the first place and start pissing away this ammo, too. Are they happy with the direction the story is taking? Are they happy being at the power level they're at? Do they feel marginalized compared to the NPCs? Consult with your players.

No the players are having a blast with the game, NPCs are seen and are not "with them" on missions, not used in "their" adventures. A sight of their future as it were. They actualy are all looking forward to their punishment and have given some decidedly evil suggestions themselves. They suggested I come here to see what other fans could concoct. So worry not on the air of the game. My players wanted to know what you all thought.

At the end of the day. The servitors they killed were tainted by the warp Daemon on board. And are now dead, even though they will wish they had conserved more ammo when they face the Daemon. The Acolytes may even manage to stop the damned thing before it makes it to the Engineerium, but thats really going to depend on how they handle some areas on the ship. Even if they do not it will be they who after some things I dare not state here (lest they seeses its!!!), who will likely stop the beast. They are the heroes.

They searched the room cause they are following a Daemonic entity who made it on board the ship and scored well in this section of the ship (the Chapel administered by the Ecclisiarchy and the Sisters) and so uncovered the rooms entrance off the room they were in at the time. The players played their characters to a tee, some wanting to use her stuff, others not really caring, one just taking ocular catchecizer (sp?) images of her gear in awe (Adept lore hound).

In the end the Prime and the Sister made certain no one touched her blessed or sactified gear, though the Tech Priest came close to taking her Bolters off the wall. The sister pointed to the ammo stores and told them they could go through that and to ammo up, the Prime did not object. Searching the crates they found the sealed box, and then with a summary opposite of the respect they should other elite things they cracked the seal and took the ammo and split the four clips two to the Tech Priest and two to the Sister.

Of course the ammo was not on a custom wall mount hehe....

Alexis

*smiles*

According to the Adeptus Arbites 'Book of Judgement':

Burglary (including forced entry) - 5 to 15 years in prison, or conscription into a penal legion

Robbery or Theft - 5 to 10 years in prison

Petty Theft - A beating or public pelting

Of course, the above are mainly used when dealing with normal citizens. When dealing with military, from The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer:

Disrespect towards an officer (in word or action) - Shot

Wasting ammunition* - Sent to a penal legion

Crimes of fraud against the Imperium - Any soldier caught stealing or misappropriating supplies frtom Imperial Guard stores, including ordnance, arms, equipment, ammunition, clothing, subsistence supplies and attempting to profit from passing such items on will be shot, after rigorous interrogation to bring accomplices to the light of the Immortal Emperor's justice.

* Even Space Marines are subject to similar punishment (Assault cannon terminator was ordered to endure several months of penance for firing 'long past the time [the Tyranids] were dead.)

And the retinue may avoid the full-scale of the fraud against the Imperium charge, as they have not attempted to profit from it, per se.