I guess it comes down to me really hating that feeling of powerlessness when that isd winds up, throws dice, and an accuracy pops up. Just as I start figuring out which shields to nuke with redirect, my opponent gently reminds me he has xi7s. I eat the damage, drawing a critical because the volume is huge and I can't cancel it. Suddenly my VSD has one more attack left to live, and I'm second player, regretting that I put my hopes into the VSD. I might get my one shot back against the ISD, only to watch him brace effortlessly and still have all his hull. I'm still facing him with a huge hole in my shields facing the massive battery and nigh-useless defense tokens. 70 points down the drain without much return.

I might get clever and kit out a vsd-I with eracks to try close-quarters destruction only to run into a cymoon with Vader packing more xi7s, hanging at speed 1. Next game it's ackbar mc75s that deploy after a swarm of roadblock y-wings.

Afterward when I'm armchair analyzing I ask myself why I'd take a VSD to tournament when it's a certainty that it'll be primary target for any large ships wanting to score some big points. Instead I choose less expensive ships, more flexible ships, upgrade to another heavy to equalize the blows, or stick tua on it.

Did I mess up anywhere in this train of thought? Am I the only one with this thought process? Because this is what keeps me from trusting in the best combat medium in the game without seeing tua as an essential upgrade.

12 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

I guess it comes down to me really hating that feeling of powerlessness when that isd winds up, throws dice, and an accuracy pops up. Just as I start figuring out which shields to nuke with redirect, my opponent gently reminds me he has xi7s. I eat the damage, drawing a critical because the volume is huge and I can't cancel it. Suddenly my VSD has one more attack left to live, and I'm second player, regretting that I put my hopes into the VSD. I might get my one shot back against the ISD, only to watch him brace effortlessly and still have all his hull. I'm still facing him with a huge hole in my shields facing the massive battery and nigh-useless defense tokens. 70 points down the drain without much return.

I might get clever and kit out a vsd-I with eracks to try close-quarters destruction only to run into a cymoon with Vader packing more xi7s, hanging at speed 1. Next game it's ackbar mc75s that deploy after a swarm of roadblock y-wings.

Afterward when I'm armchair analyzing I ask myself why I'd take a VSD to tournament when it's a certainty that it'll be primary target for any large ships wanting to score some big points. Instead I choose less expensive ships, more flexible ships, upgrade to another heavy to equalize the blows, or stick tua on it.

Did I mess up anywhere in this train of thought? Am I the only one with this thought process? Because this is what keeps me from trusting in the best combat medium in the game without seeing tua as an essential upgrade.

Wheres the rest of your fleet in this situation?

Wheres sloane and a bunch of ties that wipe out the defense tokens beforehand?

Wheres a interdictor with targeting scramblers?

Wheres the demolisher thats given the ISD a beating already?

Wheres the other VSD thats giving fire support?

Wheres the _______ thats doing____ in your fleet?

I have nothing against what you feel when your ship gets destroyed and its easy to see how this can make you feel like the ships useless.

I like to use this

2x 100pt VSD2s (dcaps, gunnery teams, QBT) (leading shots if you want)

2x gozantis (expanded hanger bay)

Sloane

100 - 120pts of sqds (depending on if you want a bid)(13 sqd of tie fighters and howlrunner = 120pts)

Basic premise, deployment directly across from main force, can be angled to deal with flankers, gozantis wherever needed to push squadrons.

Depending on objectives deployment may change, speed 1 forward.

Fighters:

A) Keep fighters back for 1 or 2 rounds, then jump over enemy fighters and spread out, shooting multiple ships to force losing tokens.

B) attack enemy bombers under friendly AA, then wait for enemy ships to approaxh and strip tokens

C) split forces into 4 groups as seen below

1) 3 ties

2) 3 ties

3) 3 ties

4) 4 ties and howlrunner.

Then keep group 1 and 4 near friendly ships and send 2&3 off to strip tokens.

7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I guess it comes down to me really hating that feeling of powerlessness when that isd winds up, throws dice, and an accuracy pops up. Just as I start figuring out which shields to nuke with redirect, my opponent gently reminds me he has xi7s. I eat the damage, drawing a critical because the volume is huge and I can't cancel it. Suddenly my VSD has one more attack left to live, and I'm second player, regretting that I put my hopes into the VSD. I might get my one shot back against the ISD, only to watch him brace effortlessly and still have all his hull. I'm still facing him with a huge hole in my shields facing the massive battery and nigh-useless defense tokens. 70 points down the drain without much return.

 I might get clever and kit out a vsd-I with eracks to try close-quarters destruction only to run into a cymoon with Vader packing more xi7s, hanging at speed 1. Next game it's ackbar mc75s that deploy after a swarm of roadblock y-wings.

 Afterward when I'm armchair analyzing I ask myself why I'd take a VSD to tournament when it's a certainty that it'll be primary target for any large ships wanting to score some big points. Instead I choose less expensive ships, more flexible ships, upgrade to another heavy to equalize the blows, or stick tua on it.

Did I mess up anywhere in this train of thought? Am I the only one with this thought process? Because this is what keeps me from trusting in the best combat medium in the game without seeing tua as an essential upgrade.

This pretty much covers it.

VSD are too cumbersome to get into position, too squishy to take fire, and way too slow to ever disengage.

Wanna pay 100 pt to do the DCaps trick? Sure, 3 red + 3 blue will surely win you the game. And then you close and you realize how weak 3 red + 3 blue is up close. Sad.

Maybe there for a while the VSD-2 was made less bad.

At the same time the VSD-1 was replaced by the Quasar as a carrier. And relying on the VSD to do good work up close... not happening.

Wow so much VSD hate. Lets take a moment and look at a ship it often gets compared unfavourably to.

The ISD, all classes. The ISD has several fundamental problems that wave 7 did not address. The first is cost. If we start from the premise that you want a full squad compliment, your points available for ships is ~250. Subtract the cost of even a single moderately upgraded upgraded ISD and your left with ~110, barely enough for 2 raiders.

The next issue is also related to points, but from a tournament points perspective. The ISD is so expensive that it's unlikely you can secure a high margin victory if it goes down. Your opponent also knows this, so often the game objective becomes irrelevant and it's just about destroying/keeping alive your juicy porkchop. This also plays into disengaging, often the ISD needs to run or you lose, while a Victory can afford to stick around and fight it out.

The large base of the ISD is another liability. Fitting that big base into tight spots isn't easy, even with its better maneuverability, and it's easy to block. It also makes escape difficult, squadrons can easily get to the huge rear end of an ISD to finish it off if it tries to run.

Firepower. A Victory with QBTs has almost the same dice compliment as its big brother. It also has titles not available to an ISD that are often overlooked. A Vic1 with Warlord and QBTs, with some help from Jonus, is putting out more consistent damage than a Cymoon for far less cost and way more damage at close range. Also since the Victory is so much cheaper, you can get a whole other real ship out of it, not get stuck with silly floatillas.

Maneuverability. This is where the ISD appears to have a clear advantage. But, since the Victory is so much cheaper it doesn't need to go fast or run away. It has a big squadron ball to protect its vulnerable sides. This is the key to effectively using Victorys, it needs squadron support. By taking the Victory it became much easier to pay for that squad ball and being maneuverable becomes far less important.

Health. The ISD has 3 more hull, a couple shields and a contain. This is significant. Like the Victory though, it's mostly relying on its 2 redirect tokens and it's brace. If an ISD eats enough damage to kill a Victory it's probably going down anyway in everything but the most marginal circumstances.

I'd go on but that's all the time I have for now, but wanted to give my reasons for letting my ISDs gather dust on my bookcase.

Personally I don't hate the VSD.

Not after all the help it got in wave 6 anyways, after all, during wave 6 the VSD was king of our local meta. I do feel however there has been a shift towards bigger guns since the release of wave 7 and the latest nerf, which makes the VSD a bit of a risk to take. I've made a few VSD lists in an attempt to keep them going locally, and sadly, they just do not have the kind of sustained firepower, maneuverability or defensive capabilities to last in a heavy weight fight. In fact, considering how easily they're disposed of locally, I'd rather take multiple smaller ships in their place to compartmentalize the value invested.

A prime example would be a dual VIC list which absolutely dominated wave 6 (pics of the list in action)...






...versus my dual Kuat fleet with FCTs ACMs and HIEs (pics below).





Keep in mind these pictures are separate matches, not the match I'm describing, but while the VSDs were still hitting hard, the large ships were able to Brace and Redirect the long range shots away, and since the VSD can't really go far or fast, the Kuats were able to close that gap in a turn. Once at close, the VSDs just got ate up, even with motti bringing them to 10 hull, front from the Kuat averages at 7.5 damage with HIEs and ACMs that's basically 13 damage. The side does an average of 3.5 with a 25% chance at a crit (if screed wasn't used for the primary attack that's 4 +2 more for ACMs).

My dice seem to roll a little higher than this, on average my kuats do about 10 damage (+5 in crit effects)+ 4 damage (+2 in crit effects). even if braced down twice, that's roughly 14 damage per round. (and don't get me started on if I roll an accuracy, without it's brace the VSD is sunk).

It may be anecdotal, and it's not to say the VSD is BAD, I just don't trust them in this meta. I've seen them get totaled by every large ship on either side at this point.

6 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

9 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Wow so much VSD hate. Lets take a moment and look at a ship it often gets compared unfavourably to.

Hate? no. You can critique a thing intensely because you love it and want to make it better. I do want the VSD to be a discount ISD... I want it as a heavy complement to a flagship ISD or be a points discount/anchor for lists populated with light ships. I want the VSD especially to succeed because it's the best jack-of-all-trades for medium ships- out-powering the Assault Frigate significantly. If the VSD is a dud, every other medium ship has to be because it cannot surpass the ship that's supposed to be the best balanced medium. Success of the VSD means medium ships are actually worth taking. Right now, apart from some specialist fringe cases, there's no reason to. You go big batteries, mass activations, or mass fighters. The VSD has no place in that trifecta.

As far as I know Kristjan you were the only player to bring a VSD to top-standing in a tournament such as this, and it seems to me your list was designed specifically to counter the power list of the day: Raddus MC75 drop bombs. Would your list work just as well against fighter swarms or long-range superlasers? if so, how?

9 hours ago, Kristjan said:

The ISD, all classes. The ISD has several fundamental problems that wave 7 did not address. The first is cost. If we start from the premise that you want a full squad compliment, your points available for ships is ~250. Subtract the cost of even a single moderately upgraded upgraded ISD and your left with ~110, barely enough for 2 raiders.

The next issue is also related to points, but from a tournament points perspective. The ISD is so expensive that it's unlikely you can secure a high margin victory if it goes down. Your opponent also knows this, so often the game objective becomes irrelevant and it's just about destroying/keeping alive your juicy porkchop. This also plays into disengaging, often the ISD needs to run or you lose, while a Victory can afford to stick around and fight it out.

The large base of the ISD is another liability. Fitting that big base into tight spots isn't easy, even with its better maneuverability, and it's easy to block. It also makes escape difficult, squadrons can easily get to the huge rear end of an ISD to finish it off if it tries to run.

I feel what you get with maximum battery, maximum AA with best range, maximum hull... is the tradeoff to all of these points. There is nothing bigger than an ISD, so to compete against other ISDs... you need a heavy of some kind, or the equivalent amount in points of fighters so you can bludgeon it to death with attrition attacks. Few things can compete with the large batteries and delete targets as efficiently as an ISD. Wunderwaffen such as Demolisher and Yavaris... can... which is why we see them so often in so many lists. Wasn't one of the top imperial lists a while ago an ISD, Demolisher, and a ton of aces?

I will agree that a drawback to such a huge ISD is a big gamble, but that's how it goes. ISDs are far better equipped at trashing mediums than the reverse. Mandating Tua to make VSDs survivable/workable means you can't up-gun a VSD to make that shot hurt, like with an Intel officer or putting Grint there for some re-roll assistance. If you do that, you're back to a ship that practically can't spend its defense tokens half the time.

10 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Firepower. A Victory with QBTs has almost the same dice compliment as its big brother. It also has titles not available to an ISD that are often overlooked. A Vic1 with Warlord and QBTs, with some help from Jonus, is putting out more consistent damage than a Cymoon for far less cost and way more damage at close range. Also since the Victory is so much cheaper, you can get a whole other real ship out of it, not get stuck with silly floatillas.

A VSD-II with QBTs, Concentrate fire, shoots out more dice than even a Cymoon at long range if both of them scale up, I'm aware. It's one of the advantages a VSD has over any other ship in the game right now (along with the 8-dice close range combination through Expanded Launchers / Disposable Racks on a VSD-I). But you can't do anything fun with either make as long as you're giving your officer slot over to Tua... unless you accept vulnerability to any XI7-laden heavy hitting you with their own interdiction apparatus (Intel officer on brace, chance or dictated Accuracy) forever making you unable to remove damage via tokens. You'll live only as long as 11 damage points...

I mean, I suppose you can critique me for not being adventurous and making one of those awesome offensive VSDs without Tua... but I also don't like my choices taken from me when I'm defending. The reason I left X-Wing is because too many triple blanks on green dice when I'm flying TIE Fighters- the game's decided to screw me over arbitrarily. It's not so arbitrary here, and all of my choices to do something about it make it harder to justify taking a VSD! Let alone multiples, which is what I want to do!

Also, Titles. Pray tell which title do you think is a significant advantage? 12-point Dominator that asks for a medium range restriction and 2 shields during one attack (Sorry, no Dcap help here)? Corruptor for TIE Bombers that already go speed 4 (unless you choose to activate your 16 point rogues)? Ah! How about Warlord, dealing 1 damage to every fighter in range for 16 points and locking down your turbolaser slot (the only trick this ship had apart from being a discount carrier)? Meanwhile, Avenger was so great it needed a nerf, and Relentless is so cheap it's an afterthought. I point to thecactusman for how good Devestator is.

Also what ship fits in the 30 point gap between a VSD and an ISD... except the flotillas? Even Raiders are 44, and if you want a common configuration to do something with them, it's more points than that.

10 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Maneuverability. This is where the ISD appears to have a clear advantage. But, since the Victory is so much cheaper it doesn't need to go fast or run away. It has a big squadron ball to protect its vulnerable sides. This is the key to effectively using Victorys, it needs squadron support. By taking the Victory it became much easier to pay for that squad ball and being maneuverable becomes far less important.

Players extol the virtues of Jerjerrod "making the VSDs great again." Somehow I don't think this would be the case if the VSD didn't have a maneuverability problem. It's not an issue if the VSD doesn't have to go anywhere... so if you have second-player exclusive lists, it works (especially in combination with an Interdictor). But ask the VSD to chase anything, or re-position itself from being out-deployed, it has problems. An ISD has the speed and flexibility to cross the board if it got out-deployed or perform long-range flanking maneuvers on a speed-3 rocket. The only way the VSD can do this is if it is in the right place at the right time.

If you use a VSD with fighters, why not go more efficiently with a Quasar Fire and aces to give all your fighters defense tokens and combo off some great upgrade combinations? Red-dice AA with ruthless strategists and Flight Controllers next to boosted comms, can the VSD do this? QFs are also faster, meaning they can out-run their pursuers or chase targets with speed 5 attack craft out of a flank.

The only advantage I can see VSDs having over QFs is, oddly, protection. But a large ship firing XI7s isn't going to make much of a difference between VSDs and QFs. This being the case, do you take a ship designed to enhance the fighter game to its maximum potential or a ship that struggles with positioning issues and doesn't have the officer slot free?

10 hours ago, Kristjan said:

Health. The ISD has 3 more hull, a couple shields and a contain. This is significant. Like the Victory though, it's mostly relying on its 2 redirect tokens and it's brace. If an ISD eats enough damage to kill a Victory it's probably going down anyway in everything but the most marginal circumstances.

ISD-Ks and IIs can utilize their officer slots and an ECM to make damage go away when they need to. You're overlooking this flexibility that a lot of ISD drivers take for granted. It's keenly felt when your VSD is defending, though. If someone can post up some awesome games where Tua-less VSDs survive direct attacks from large ships, I'd love to see it and know how it works. The view from my armchair sees this ending badly when a heavy ship has chosen to make the VSD disappear.

10 hours ago, Kristjan said:

I'd go on but that's all the time I have for now, but wanted to give my reasons for letting my ISDs gather dust on my bookcase. 

I hope the above illustrates my misgivings why I can't see the VSD working, and why I feel I can't take the risk competitively.

The VSD has many virtues- the VSD-II is a great gunship. It has all the upgrade slots and flexibility to make the guns do incredible things. The VSD-I can be a fantastic close-range death machine. I once made a fresh Gladiator disappear in an early tournament with a VSD packing Expanded Launchers, XI7s, and Sensor teams. I'd Love to do that again! Every time since I've had to witness it being out-deployed, or gunned down at long range. I can't see how to make this modern setup work in the face of so many large-battery combinations in existence... unless I take Tua, eliminate officer flexibility, and limit myself to 1 VSD.

If I were more willing to take risks with my list, perhaps they can be made to perform well. But too often I'm faced with futility when I run them that they always, one way or another, disappoint.

2 tappable 7th fleet titles (so 3 or more total across the fleet) along with some clever flying goes a long way to making it more survivable without Tua

I was thinking about Brunsen on a second VSD (tua goes on the first). In terms of damage elimination she has Needa's advantage of making a die go away like an evade but without sacrificing one of the redirects. It would have been better if she wasn't an exhaust, or if there was another mechanism to un-exhaust her other than the Interdictor title. But in terms of what you can do defensively, Tua-Brusen with 7th fleet titles on both might be worth experimenting with... though you are limited to flying them close together. Brunsen has to go presumably inside the turn to hook around dense asteroids while Tua is riding a D-Cap destroyer for flanking.

6 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

I was thinking about Brunsen on a second VSD (tua goes on the first). In terms of damage elimination she has Needa's advantage of making a die go away like an evade but without sacrificing one of the redirects. It would have been better if she wasn't an exhaust, or if there was another mechanism to un-exhaust her other than the Interdictor title. But in terms of what you can do defensively, Tua-Brusen with 7th fleet titles on both might be worth experimenting with... though you are limited to flying them close together. Brunsen has to go presumably inside the turn to hook around dense asteroids while Tua is riding a D-Cap destroyer for flanking.

Brunson is great on a vic as you can cancel doubles or hit/crits that people were relying on for crit effects

Hey @Norsehound I'll try to answer your points as concisely as I can.

First big ships. Big ships are really the least of a Victory classes worries and are I believe their best matchup. Big ships give the Vic something to point at and focus on. The Victory can throw just as many dice as an ISD and in many cases more. In a face to face standoff at close range it will come down to who has ECM and better fighter support. ISD2 and Cymoons are in a lot of trouble against a Vic 1 at close range, especially if they took early warning system.

Officers. Yes the Victory is pretty restricted to Tua or maybe Brunson, but the other options aren't really that appealing anyway. I would think that Tua was designed for the Victory specifically, so why not use her? Intel officer would be nice sometimes, but it's expensive, not all that appropriate for the Vic's dice compliment, and does nothing defensively.

The Quasar. I was planning on mentioning this ship in my original post. This ship is basically a niche for specific squad builds. It's a very expensive platform for pushing squadrons, but it does do that job well. It drawback is it's less than 20 points cheaper than a Vic1 and contributes only marginally more anti-ship dice than a gozanti. If this thing had more than one anti-squad dice, I would see more of a role for it in a greater variety of fleets. With only one AA dice, your opponent should be easily able to ensure it never gets unobstructed shots.

Warlord title is not for squadrons, though it significantly ups the Victorys single anti squad die. Warlord with Jonus is like a TRC that doesn't exhaust or use your turbo laser slot. The amount of damage this can add is easy to over look, especially on ships with redundant defence tokens. The other titles aren't amazing, but can have a place in certain builds.

I didn't bring a Victory to Worlds as some sort of Raddus counter. Raddus did factor into my decision to bring a Victory, but only in the sense that bringing an ISD just gives the Raddus player a juicy target to drop on. My Worlds list was what I thought gave me the best chance against Yavaris Ace balls with an Imperial list, or a really rude surprise for any Sloane players. Low and behold look what was on most of the top tables, unfortunately I got stuck fighting Raddus players most of the day.

My main issue with the victory is that it is incapable of adjusting when out deployed, and cannot run. It also is much worse at killing power and points fortressing than an ISD. Don't talk to me about gladiators, there is only one and its name is Demolisher. But that is a well that is tapped out. In the new Radius world, Demo is vastly more vulnerable. It remains good, but its just one ship that can die to a radius bomb easily. The victory's deployment issues are even worse than before in the world of raddus. Now, back to my main point - I am looking for a speed 3 medium ship because I would like to not include an ISD in every imperial fleet because imperial small ships are close range, the medium ships are speed 2, there is only a freaking ISD in the large bases. I want more fleet variety for Empire. And the best way to do that is to offer an alternative to the lynchpin ship that doesn't SUCK. You can tell me all day how with this specific combo, you can manage to squeeze blood from a stone - I'm not buying what you're selling. Ive run many fleets with vics, and they're bad because if you had picked almost any other fleet, you would have better results. The Vic requires so many aftermarket fixes, from JJ to Tua, etc, that I cannot understand how you guys fail to see this ship as bad from the opportunity costs it imposes on your fleet. Maybe you derive a weird pleasure from trying to win with a poorly designed ship that came with the core set. I don't. I want more legitimate choices of ships for the Empire, and I am not afraid to say it and say it loudly. Now, if you want to keep the Vic speed 2 or otherwise defend it, I do not care. Go ahead. I want a speed 3 medium fighting ship for the empire sub-90 points and it can be a new ship. Or they can fix the travesty they call the Victory, which usually translates to a Loss.

6 minutes ago, bleachorange said:

Don't talk to me about gladiators, there is only one and its name is Demolisher.

I found non-demo glads really fine. I used demo to put pressure and the other like a super space mine. Do you want to avoid being double tapped? There is a glad waiting for you to fire you.

Of course it needs activations like every close-range-focused ship.

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I found non-demo glads really fine. I used demo to put pressure and the other like a super space mine. Do you want to avoid being double tapped? There is a glad waiting for you to fire you.

Of course it needs activations like every close-range-focused ship.

Nah, only small base close range ships need activations. Wave 7 fixed that for medium and large. Our local meta is currently being run by 2-3 activation lists that crush the older 5 activation ones, so it doesn't matter much to me anyways.

On 6/8/2018 at 5:10 PM, Ginkapo said:

@Ginkapo, I just noticed this reply, there's no text?

7 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Its not speed 3 and doesn't 1 tick at speed 2, pass.

4 minutes ago, bleachorange said:

Its not speed 3 and doesn't 1 tick at speed 2, pass.

But it can take engine techs and ECMs at the cost of gunnery teams.

8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

But it can take engine techs and ECMs at the cost of gunnery teams.

Engine techs - pass. I don't actually fall into the category of people who think the Vic needs a defensive retrofit. Sure, it would be useful. But now I am paying 82 points for a ship that can't hop a medium base if it needs to and I have to use a specific command to proc that speed every turn. Don't get me wrong, I like this better than the existing. But I solidly want a real speed 3 medium ship. Drop the Vic armament and hull down slightly, give it the ISD maneuver chart, and I could be happy. I am NOT asking for a OP killing machine, I am asking for a medium ship (so it can take some hits) and speed 3 (so it can engage or run).

1 hour ago, bleachorange said:

Engine techs - pass. I don't actually fall into the category of people who think the Vic needs a defensive retrofit. Sure, it would be useful. But now I am paying 82 points for a ship that can't hop a medium base if it needs to and I have to use a specific command to proc that speed every turn. Don't get me wrong, I like this better than the existing. But I solidly want a real speed 3 medium ship. Drop the Vic armament and hull down slightly, give it the ISD maneuver chart, and I could be happy. I am NOT asking for a OP killing machine, I am asking for a medium ship (so it can take some hits) and speed 3 (so it can engage or run).

Medium ship at speed 3? I believe it's called the Quasar. Apparently con fires real nice with Thrawn.

8 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Medium ship at speed 3? I believe it's called the Quasar. Apparently con fires real nice with Thrawn.

Season with dcaps

18 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Medium ship at speed 3? I believe it's called the Quasar. Apparently con fires real nice with Thrawn.

It just doesn't like being shot at, by anything. Unlike flotillas it doesn't have a scatter to make all that damage just go away. Also? The front arc might as well be a neon archery target for every elven Archer in the rebellion.

This is why, in comparison to the VSD when defending, the VSD is supposed to be more attractive. It's not much, but it's still a plus.

32 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Medium ship at speed 3? I believe it's called the Quasar. Apparently con fires real nice with Thrawn.

Oh, you mean the carrier ship. Yeah, don't hold your breath. It dies to everything. Its not meant to fight other ships. I have actually tried it in the role you suggest, and it blows. Did it with motti and also concentrate fires/repairs and it still dies and doesn't kill anything. Let's not kid ourselves here - it's a carrier with chip damage and no tokens or shields.

Its interesting to me how I am advocating for something here and keep getting recommended something I have tried and passed over. I am not saying you can't advocate the use of something else, but the implication of 'oh, you mean the gladiator' or 'oh, you mean the quasar' as if it was what I was asking for is frankly quite condescending. Go ahead and say you don't see the issue, but I am confident that the gladiator, the quasar, the arquitens, the victory, and the Interdictor are NOT what I am looking for and I don't need them recommended to me as if they were.

1 hour ago, bleachorange said:

Oh, you mean the carrier ship. Yeah, don't hold your breath. It dies to everything. Its not meant to fight other ships. I have actually tried it in the role you suggest, and it blows.

I use this gif on these forums way more than you'd think I would need to.

9 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I use this gif on these forums way more than you'd think I would need to.

Im of the opinion it isnt used enough some days...