Miracle worker. After movement. Gain 1 movement with one click. Sounds good to me.

24 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

Miracle worker. After movement. Gain 1 movement with one click. Sounds good to me.

So you want Engine Techs?

3 minutes ago, geek19 said:

So you want Engine Techs?

Beat me to it, but I was thinking a Minister Tua-like officer, but for a Support Team

Title works just as well, without having to add VSD only to the text.

4 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Title works just as well, without having to add VSD only to the text.

Depends.

officer is so much more a penalty than Title.

I'm not inherently opposed to giving the VSD some love, but a lot of VSD recommendations come down to "spend points and upgrade slots to make it more like an ISD," which quickly gets to the point of "you've spent nearly as many points as an ISD for an ISD that's still lacking in some way and has used up some of its good upgrade slots." I feel like upgrades similar to Disposable Capacitors that help make VSDs their own thing are usually superior. If it's determined that the VSD is lacking in some way*, then it's probably better to just get them new ship cards, Chimaera -style, no?

*People will definitely disagree on the matter, of course, but I wouldn't have a problem with exploring the idea at the very least.

Speaking of ship validity and the Officer slot, does anyone else feel like Strategic Advisor has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works? While the latest wave has been great for putting big ships on the table, I've noticed in a lot of lists it ends up making sense to choose a large ship over a medium, because along with all the other advantages they offer you can simply add a 4 point Strategic Advisor for that always-helpful extra activation.

I could be wrong but in my mind it seems medium ships are in a tough spot due to the return on investment they offer, unless they're doing something really specific like a carrier or Interdoctor. The VSD doesn't have a specific role these days.

Honestly the VSD is the only ship on the imperial side that isn't a purpose built unitasker. T he Assault frigate is still the best jack of all trades.

The VSD is just a bargain ISD, accept that , and it finds its place in your fleet.

4 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I'm not inherently opposed to giving the VSD some love, but a lot of VSD recommendations come down to "spend points and upgrade slots to make it more like an ISD," which quickly gets to the point of "you've spent nearly as many points as an ISD for an ISD that's still lacking in some way and has used up some of its good upgrade slots." I feel like upgrades similar to Disposable Capacitors that help make VSDs their own thing are usually superior. If it's determined that the VSD is lacking in some way*, then it's probably better to just get them new ship cards, Chimaera -style, no?

*People will definitely disagree on the matter, of course, but I wouldn't have a problem with exploring the idea at the very least.

I feel like people need to spend more time with the following:

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 113 total ship cost

Pilot that for a few games any general and if you still feel like VSD needs love then we can talk...

2 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

The VSD is just a bargain ISD, accept that , and it finds its place in your fleet. 

No... not really. It's much more than a thirtyish point difference. Even without upgrades, two die AA with a better speed chart and a larger natural battery are a lot to love when upgrading. Having contain on deck is also nice against any ships that aren't loaded to the gills with APTs. That one shield on the nose also lets the ship hold a little better against XI7 shots.

At speed 3 an ISD can cross the board to make up for a bad deployment. A VSD can't hope to do this.

It's not a bargain ISD because it can't stand in as a replacement for an ISD without significant upgrades. That's why I really want to see some improvements for the VSD that attack issues with the unit directly, not this fringe nonsense of, "Oh, it can turn better with this commander" or "oh, you can remove a damage if you have one of these specific friends." Give it a way to use brace reliably or a one-turn (at least!) temporary speed boost.

41 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 113 total ship cost

Emphasis mine. You need these cards, no matter what configuration, to let the VSD use a brace token and cut down on the big batteries that would otherwise annihilate it. If the VSD had a built-in defensive retrofit slot then we can talk about it being a bargain ISD. Without it, with the need to reach for one unique officer and sacrifice the officer slot (whereas ISD-IIs and ISD-Ks don't have to), the VSD will never be a replacement for the ISD.

There is not a workable strategy for running more than one VSD. Not without building your list knowing you're going to sacrifice your 70-ish points if you run afowl of a large-battery heavy you can't escape from.

Honestly, I just want something imperial that can fight and go speed 3 in the 70 point range. Whether that means a fix or a new ship, I care not. I never play the victory as-is because I think it sucks and don't want to spend even more points to halfass fixing bad ship design. It's allowed to suck if thats what FFG wants. Just give me a different ship that can get the job done.

Speed 3? Can hit hard? Cheapish? Gladiator!

I think the Empire is fine shipwise. Thw VSD is an obsolete design but in the hands of admirals like Jerry they still can sing.

I much prefer a full upgraded victory which has all the upgrade card effects than a naked ISD for the same price or more...

Cmon, if used well, its a good ship, both variant. Currently its in a fair position, against corvettes it suffers much, thats right, but atm they arent a thing now. Aganst big ships it does well. My vic1 was a terror at euros, both against squadrons and ships. Once very mobile lists become a thing again, theyll suffer. But in the meantime are okay.

I ran a 3 VSD list with Thrawn & it didn’t do too badly. Lost the match by a single dice roll.

But it doesn’t forgive errors in movement very well & you need objectives that bring the enemy to you.

And doesn’t every ship come with some limitations/weaknesses? Isn’t that part of the game?

Does this mean the Pelta, MC80 Home one and Interdictor get an upgrade too they are all speed 2 max. Both factions have 2 speed 2 ships. Not everything can be fast or powerful or useful. Other wise we would all just be running the same ships.

Well we have an admiral that adds hull... so how about a victory only engine retro fit that gives a different speed /yaw chart but at cost of both points & hull?*

*Be funny if Vader boards the Vic and removes the engine retro fit and increases the hull value :p... ......

1 minute ago, slasher956 said:

Well we have an admiral that adds hull... so how about a victory only engine retro fit that gives a different speed /yaw chart but at cost of both points & hull?*

*Be funny if Vader boards the Vic and removes the engine retro fit and increases the hull value :p... ......

Vader: *deletes engine upgrade*

Damaged VSD: *immediately returns to full health*

Vader:

5 hours ago, bleachorange said:

Honestly, I just want something imperial that can fight and go speed 3 in the 70 point range. Whether that means a fix or a new ship, I care not. I never play the victory as-is because I think it sucks and don't want to spend even more points to halfass fixing bad ship design. It's allowed to suck if thats what FFG wants. Just give me a different ship that can get the job done.

You mean a Glad?

1 hour ago, XR8rGREAT said:

Does this mean the Pelta, MC80 Home one and Interdictor get an upgrade too they are all speed 2 max. Both factions have 2 speed 2 ships. Not everything can be fast or powerful or useful. Other wise we would all just be running the same ships.

All three of those ships can have Engine techs though. I would prefer a Victory title that adds a support slot, so the poor old Vic can speed up a little.

Lol what is up with some guys. The Vic is a absolutely great ship nowadays. If you refuse to use upgrades on it "because it sucks without upgrades" then i assume you dont use Interdictors, Peltas, Nebulon Bs and all the other ships that really want upgrades either? Some ships need upgrades in order to work. Doesnt mean that "they suck" at all.

7 hours ago, bleachorange said:

Honestly, I just want something imperial that can fight and go speed 3 in the 70 point range. Whether that means a fix or a new ship, I care not. I never play the victory as-is because I think it sucks and don't want to spend even more points to halfass fixing bad ship design. It's allowed to suck if thats what FFG wants. Just give me a different ship that can get the job done.

So, I know a ship that hits like a truck and goes Speed 3.

Have you heard of the Gladiator Star Destroyer?

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

You mean a Glad?

... beaten like Tagge at any major event.

7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Emphasis mine. You need these cards, no matter what configuration, to let the VSD use a brace token and cut down on the big batteries that would otherwise annihilate it. If the VSD had a built-in defensive retrofit slot then we can talk about it being a bargain ISD. Without it, with the need to reach for one unique officer and sacrifice the officer slot (whereas ISD-IIs and ISD-Ks don't have to), the VSD will never be a replacement for the ISD.

There is not a workable strategy for running more than one VSD. Not without building your list knowing you're going to sacrifice your 70-ish points if you run afowl of a large-battery heavy you can't escape from.

As the self-proclaimed expert on that Vic build (I've been playing it since wave 6 dropped and created/posted multiple iterations of it), that ship is a bargain ISD. You can do everything an ISD can do, but at a 75% power level for cheaper than a naked ISD.

Why spend all the points on an ISD when you can use a Vic instead? Why use a sledge hammer when you only need mallet? That's what this ship does well. It allows you to exert ISD-like power into the battle. How many times have you used an ISD and dealt way more damage than you needed to? It is inefficient to deal excessive damage when you only have 6 rounds. If you are consistently dealing 2+ excess damage, a Vic is an easy way to bring that down because you have less dice.

Why do you need more than 1 Vic? Do you often run more than 1 ISD? Dual Vics is fun, but the extra Vic is a liability without it's brace. You will be better served running a Glad and a Raider instead.

In the dozens of games I've played with a Tua Vic, I can only remember 3 times that I've lost it. It's come close with many games ending with 1 hull and no shields, but it's still on the table. Repairs keep the Vic alive, and JJ helps it move. Every game, my commands are the same. Nav, Nav, CF, Repair, Repair, Repair. And I have a comms net following throwing repair tokens. I've sent my Vic head on against dual ISDs, dual Libs Ackbar80s, B-Wing balls, glads, Admo, Demo. You name it, I've probably done it. By not splurging the points on an ISD, you can upgrade the rest of your fleet to make them a bigger target. 2 Raiders with OE and ER are a scary when they escort the Vic. Every shot on a Raider is less damage on the Vic. So while an ISD may have 3 extra hull and 2 extra shields, the 20-30 point difference is enough to upgrade a Gozanti to a Raider and now you've made up for the hull/shield difference.

This build is tried and true. You need to play it to understand how strong it is.

You can easily run 3 or 4 Vic 1s with Jerry or Motti and still have success with it. No escaping those black dice.

Fleet: Quad Vics

- Victory 1 + External Racks + Moff Jerjerrod 99 + Tua + ECM 106 pts

- Victory 1 + External Racks 76 pts

- Victory 1 + External Racks 76 pts

- Victory 1 + External Racks 76 pts

- 8x TIE Fighter 64 pts

= 400 pts

Advanced Gunnery

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Enjoy.