12 minutes ago, RStan said:

I was thinking about a Lando + Wedge squad recently as well @catachanninja and @Biophysical . Lando giving Wedge essentially adv sensors seems pretty awesome along with the fact that it makes a Death Star II squad. In terms of equipping Lando I've also looked at Trickshot since there really isn't an ept that settles in well so far and obviously Nien Nunb. Beyond that gunner's I've looked at are Bistan, Hotshot Gunner, and Han Solo. Solo is likely the most expensive, but is essentially a better Veteran Turret Gunner. Bistan seems odd for me because he requires keeping a focus after the first attack and I wasn't aware or sure that the YT1300 has 2 crew slots to allow Perceptive Copilot or even other crews. (If someone can confirm that and where that info came from, that'd be appreciated). Now because of that, my Lando I built initially was actually pretty cheap with just Trickshot, Nien Nunb and an undetermined gunner. I wasn't sold on spending on Engine Upgrade and Falcon title just yet because I could potentially fit an A-Wing (maybe Arvel?) which seems cool and potentially gives me a 3rd ship that can take Juke which can synergize well with Hotshot Gunner stripping green tokens from enemy ships via Lando. In this variation, Lando becomes more of a larger support ship for Wedge and either the Green Sq Pilot or Arvel. #MYTHEME!

I'm just guessing on the 2 crew slots, one crew slot certainly changes the calculus.

Han is especially interesting because he's slightly differently worded than other Gunners. Han shoots out of a turret at I7, then you're free to make other attacks not out of that turret arc.

Veteran Turret Gunner triggers after a primary.

Consequently, if someone is in your front arc, you can hit them with Han at I7, then dump a Concussion Missile into them (you're not using the turret at that point). Double tap, baby.

I think it works that way, at least.

25 minutes ago, Arschbombe said:

goes all in on turrets in 2.0.

That might be overstating it a touch.

I don't think you'd ever see the "cannot attack out of the same mobile arc indicator" gunners on the yts. They're far too fiddly to make work on opposite facing mobile arc indicators, and Bistan exists.

Unless ofc Han is super cheap that he justifies limited ordnance double-tap, assuming the yts keep their missiles.

Otherwise, those guys are for Ys/Moldy Hwks/VCXs etc.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I don't think you'd ever see the "cannot attack out of the same mobile arc indicator" gunners on the yts. They're far too fiddly to make work on opposite facing mobile arc indicators, and Bistan exists.

Unless ofc Han is super cheap that he justifies limited ordnance double-tap, assuming the yts keep their missiles.

Otherwise, those guys are for Ys/Moldy Hwks/VCXs etc.

I agree, I was just looking at different interactions.

Speaking for Perceptive Bistan, though, he seems quite alright on Han pilot when you get the re-rolls going. That's a LOT of added reliability, on both gunner shots and potentially even defensive re-rolls (especially if obstructed as you're hanging around obstacles...Trickshot!).

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Lando ... 90

Crew 1: Nien Numb (banks are blues) 6

Crew 2: Perceptive Copilot (two tokens per Focus action) 2? (based on ReccSpec)

Gunner: Bistan (vet turret gunner is 10, Luke is ~30...) 20?

Mod: Engine Upgrade 16? (Double the 1.0 regular cost)

EPT: Lone Wolf (I'm not sure I've seen something better, but it doesn't  seem ideal with Lando's ability). 5

 Falcon title   10?

I added some known costs and some crazy guesses (marked with ?) in order to get a rough picture of how much this build might cost. My current wild guess is 149. Maybe a couple A-Wings would fit, but it seems squeezing in Wedge might require trimming Lando’s upgrades. Wedge naked is probably around 50-some points.

6 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

I added some known costs and some crazy guesses (marked with ?) in order to get a rough picture of how much this build might cost. My current wild guess is 149. Maybe a couple A-Wings would fit, but it seems squeezing in Wedge might require trimming Lando’s upgrades. Wedge naked is probably around 50-some points.

Thanks! Engine is probably a possible upgrade thanks to all of Nien's blue moves. The EPT has a lot of flexibility, too.

9 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

I added some known costs and some crazy guesses (marked with ?) in order to get a rough picture of how much this build might cost. My current wild guess is 149. Maybe a couple A-Wings would fit, but it seems squeezing in Wedge might require trimming Lando’s upgrades. Wedge naked is probably around 50-some points.

Bistan and Falcon title both seem pretty dang high. Guesstimates right now for Dash, Outrider, Luke, Expert Handling/Lone Wolf, and a crew of choice are around 140+. I don't believe Engine Upgrade is necessary for the likely high amount of pts it will be for the YT1300 so that can be trimmed. Lone Wolf as an EPT that can be good on Lando, but if you want to use his ability to help his wingmates more than himself, it's kinda meh although it definitely helps his endgame. Either way points dont matter right now, guesstimating is all we can do to try things.

I'd actually expect bistan and vet gunner to be the same cost

They do roughly the same thing, only Vet gunner sucks on yts and Bistan needs a focus instead of managing arcs

Plus you still gotta spring for perceptive

Ezra would be more between Luke and gunner

3 minutes ago, RStan said:

Bistan and Falcon title both seem pretty dang high. Guesstimates right now for Dash, Outrider, Luke, Expert Handling/Lone Wolf, and a crew of choice are around 140+. I don't believe Engine Upgrade is necessary for the likely high amount of pts it will be for the YT1300 so that can be trimmed. Lone Wolf as an EPT that can be good on Lando, but if you want to use his ability to help his wingmates more than himself, it's kinda meh although it definitely helps his endgame. Either way points dont matter right now, guesstimating is all we can do to try things.

If Lone Wolf costs 5 with its once-per-round limitation, it seems the Falcon title with rerolls for all your defensive rolls (if you have evade) seems better...?

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

I'd actually expect bistan and vet gunner to be the same cost

They do roughly the same thing, only Vet gunner sucks on yts and Bistan needs a focus instead of managing arcs

Plus you still gotta spring for perceptive

Bistan is unique and the pattern *seems* to be that uniques cost more and are more powerful than their “generic equivalent.” Also it seems much more likely you’ll get two shots using Bistan than you will with other gunners. Yes Perceptive helps but saying you “gotta spring” for it seems to overstate.

What would you suggest MF title and Bistan are worth?

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I don't know about that. He doesn't always have to mitigate damage. Get him in close for a Lock + Focus to thump things early.

I'm thinking end game, if Lando is facing one ship, running away and resetting when there are clearly no shots happening.

Yeah, focus + TL is also solid sometimes. I played the same action economy game with Asajj when flying Parattanni. Sometimes you go full turtle and sometimes you go full offense, it all depends on what the opponent leaves open for you.

59 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

How about not taking Engine Upgrade, and take gunner ezra/perceptive co pilot/nien nunb instead? So you can do a red boost, acces to force tokens, and ezras ability? You want to fly blues anyway

Good call. Saves the mod slot for something else. I forget offhand, what's Ezra's ability let you do? reroll one die when attacking if stressed?

55 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm just guessing on the 2 crew slots, one crew slot certainly changes the calculus.

Yeah it changes quite a bit if it's just one gunner + one crew. I thought I heard someone say the devs said this is likely, but I have no real citation. We'll find out eventually.

21 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

If Lone Wolf costs 5 with its once-per-round limitation, it seems the Falcon title with rerolls for all your defensive rolls (if you have evade) seems better...?

Bistan is unique and the pattern *seems* to be that uniques cost more and are more powerful than their “generic equivalent.” Also it seems much more likely you’ll get two shots using Bistan than you will with other gunners. Yes Perceptive helps but saying you “gotta spring” for it seems to overstate.

What would you suggest MF title and Bistan are worth?

Bistan doesn't have a "generic equivalent"

Vet Turret Gunner is an equivalent of Ezra gunner

14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Bistan doesn't have a "generic equivalent"

Vet Turret Gunner is an equivalent of Ezra gunner

Yep it doesn’t. But my first thought is that if it’s unique, it is probably more expensive than the generics. And I still would suggest Bistan double taps will be able to be pulled off more regularly than other double tap gunners... which is probably why they made it unique.

On the yt, you will almost never pull off a gunner double tap

In a Y/hwk/vcx? Probably far more gunner doubletaps than Bistan as no action required, might even be able to hit the same target

Hey friends,

Do we know that the Falcon will be able to take engine upgrade? I thought that they were looking to limit its use... ?

43 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

Bistan is unique and the pattern *seems* to be that uniques cost more and are more powerful than their “generic equivalent.” Also it seems much more likely you’ll get two shots using Bistan than you will with other gunners. Yes Perceptive helps but saying you “gotta spring” for it seems to overstate.

What would you suggest MF title and Bistan are worth?

Yes Bistan is more likely to get 2 actually shots from the gunner crew selections than the other since it can be the same arc instead of 2 separate arcs, BUT unless you do take the Perceptive Copilot tax on it most likely the first attack will have no mods for it unless you have force tokens from some source, a second action/previously taken target lock, or a source to passive rerolls like Han, but that's an entire reroll. You're also needing to focus to allow him to even work and if you need to turn your arc at any point, he's not being used unless you can get a focus from another source via token passing or extra actions. Comparing that to Luke at 30 that allows full knowledge and a force token per turn when not needing to use his ability then Bistan probably sits somewhere around 10+?

For the Falcon title....5-7ish? That one I feel less sure about because it works insanely well with Han and it needs to be balanced with his ability. Unless it just costs more on him than other Falcon pilots.

3 minutes ago, palim17 said:

Hey friends,

Do we know that the Falcon will be able to take engine upgrade? I thought that they were looking to limit its use... ?

It is still limited as the YT-1300 is likely the only large ship that will have the option to use it. Since it adds a white boost to a ship that already has a red boost, it's not the worst possibility but I can understand being frustrated that it can take it at all. That said, the limitations on being able to take additional actions is considerable, and there aren't a bunch of upgrades that give the benefit of actions without taking actions (like Glitterstim) so that makes EU on the ship less of an issue.

1 minute ago, Ixidor said:

It is still limited as the YT-1300 is likely the only large ship that will have the option to use it. Since it adds a white boost to a ship that already has a red boost, it's not the worst possibility but I can understand being frustrated that it can take it at all. That said, the limitations on being able to take additional actions is considerable, and there aren't a bunch of upgrades that give the benefit of actions without taking actions (like Glitterstim) so that makes EU on the ship less of an issue.

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm curious to see how the Falcon will play out, and whether it will be a ship that gets a quick points adjustment should it be too dominant.

Just now, palim17 said:

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm curious to see how the Falcon will play out, and whether it will be a ship that gets a quick points adjustment should it be too dominant.

I'm still curious how they'll get feedback on what should change, how often they'll adjust on a maintenance basis, and whether they'll do quick changes if something is really toxic. I doubt we'll get changes quite as common as some video games could maintain but once a month / once a season seem relatively reasonable (preferably on a schedule that is announced well ahead of the changes being implemented).

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Don't know if I'd bother with preceptive bistan, as 1 agi is very inefficient with defensive focus and splitting fire isn't great and you may need action to boost

Okay you keep saying this and you're 100% wrong

Splitting fire with a bonus attack is always going to be better than no bonus attack, especially since you have a mod for each.

Splitting fire is also fine if it's the difference between putting 5 damage on 2 ships vs. 2 damage on one ship.

In an ideal world, you can focus down each enemy ship one by one. That rarely happens, because your opponent gets to play, too. If I can force my opponent's regen tank to bail so that I have 80-100 points vs. 55 points for 2+ rounds, I'm generally taking it, even if I don't secure the kill.

38 minutes ago, RStan said:

Yes Bistan is more likely to get 2 actually shots from the gunner crew selections than the other since it can be the same arc instead of 2 separate arcs, BUT unless you do take the Perceptive Copilot tax on it most likely the first attack will have no mods for it unless you have force tokens from some source, a second action/previously taken target lock, or a source to passive rerolls like Han, but that's an entire reroll. You're also needing to focus to allow him to even work and if you need to turn your arc at any point, he's not being used unless you can get a focus from another source via token passing or extra actions. Comparing that to Luke at 30 that allows full knowledge and a force token per turn when not needing to use his ability then Bistan probably sits somewhere around 10+?

For the Falcon title....5-7ish? That one I feel less sure about because it works insanely well with Han and it needs to be balanced with his ability. Unless it just costs more on him than other Falcon pilots.

I understand that with Han the MF title allows two rerolls, but doesn’t diminishing returns kick in? If you get an evade result with the original roll, or with the second roll, then the third roll isn’t needed. Wouldn’t the title me MORE valuable on Lando than Han?

16 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Okay you keep saying this and you're 100% wrong

Splitting fire with a bonus attack is always going to be better than no bonus attack, especially since you have a mod for each.

False.

This is true only in a vacuum, when you're not considering the investments you have to make in order to get that spread damage off.

You would need a very moderate asking price to make investing in inefficient attacks worth more than investing in more modified attacks from your squad in general.

I liked your post because you explained what all the cards do instead of expecting us to look them up

5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

False.

This is true only in a vacuum, when you're not considering the investments you have to make in order to get that spread damage off.

You would need a very moderate asking price to make investing in inefficient attacks worth more than investing in more modified attacks from your squad in general.

Well yeah, if you can get another X-Wing for the points than of course you get the additional ship. If it costs 18 points (1.0 Gunner + Hotcop), then I'm taking that over 3/4 of a Z-95.

Depending on whether the YT1300 gets 1 or 2 crew, how low you can keep the cost on Lando while staying efficient overall, and creating a solid loadout for Wedge, making space for an AWing with Proton Rockets does actually sound pretty great. It's something scary enough that you're opponent has to respect along with both Lando and Wedge. I'd love it even more if Arvel fits with Proton Rockets, but that likely means a very slim Lando with likely only Nien, a cheaper Gunner, and Trick Shot, but that's still likely very tight. Ideally the Wedge I'd like is pretty loaded out with Outmaneuver, S-Foils, Afterburners, and I've looked at the R5 astromechs & R5-D8 (damage card regen) because those only cost actions which allows Wedge to still shoot and Lando can even give him that action too. The astromech is likely the next thing on Wedge that can be taken down a notch.