5 hours ago, J1mBob said:

Lando... 90

Crew 1: Nien Numb (banks are blues) 6

Crew 2: Perceptive Copilot (two tokens per Focus action) 2? (based on ReccSpec)

Gunner: Bistan (vet turret gunner is 10, Luke is ~30...) 20?

Mod: Engine Upgrade 16? (Double the 1.0 regular cost)

EPT: Lone Wolf (I'm not sure I've seen something better, but it doesn't seem ideal with Lando's ability). 5

 Falcon title 10?

I know most of these are guesses, no idea which ones are the « known values » here.

The Lando Falcon itself could be right. Lost 360, but gained red boost. So 90 would be double of most old iterations. Seems right.

Nien is a bit better than before, bit is 6 confirmed? I would not think the ability is worth 3 old points (well except on Lando)

Copilot over 20 points seems very odd. That would be over 10 old points?!?

Also the Gunners etc. There was no upgrade in the entire 1.0 game that was over 10 (now 20) points except Punishing one... Why would they go over the top on this now?

Falcon title for 10? It’s maybe a bit better but 5 old points?

Engine Upgrade for 8 old points? I mean it actually does less than before, and is only accessible on less ships...

That seems all a bit on the very expensive side.

I would think that they will allow the Falcon with another fully kitted Ace, like you could do it in 1.0.

5 minutes ago, ForceM said:

I would think that they will allow the Falcon with another fully kitted Ace, like you could do it in 1.0.

I agree the main question is will it be Corran/Luke or Wedge because thats a significant difference in capability.

7 minutes ago, ForceM said:

I know most of these are guesses, no idea which ones are the « known values » here.

The Lando Falcon itself could be right. Lost 360, but gained red boost. So 90 would be double of most old iterations. Seems right.

Nien is a bit better than before, bit is 6 confirmed? I would not think the ability is worth 3 old points (well except on Lando)

Copilot over 20 points seems very odd. That would be over 10 old points?!?

Also the Gunners etc. There was no upgrade in the entire 1.0 game that was over 10 (now 20) points except Punishing one... Why would they go over the top on this now?

Falcon title for 10? It’s maybe a bit better but 5 old points?

Engine Upgrade for 8 old points? I mean it actually does less than before, and is only accessible on less ships...

That seems all a bit on the very expensive side.

I would think that they will allow the Falcon with another fully kitted Ace, like you could do it in 1.0.

In my original post I mentioned that I placed a “?” after my guesses and the costs without a “?” are from the Alex Davy information transcribed in the “Changes” google doc. I wouldn’t call those numbers “confirmed” but they are way better than my guesses!

Copilot I listed as 2 points based on 1e ReccSpec being 1 point.

The Changes doc reports Davy as saying Luke/Gunner is about 30 points. I think they’re pricing Luke that high because the card breaks a 2e rule. I think another 2e “rule” is that they’re trying to not have the straight up 1e Gunner double tap without caveats. They’re also seemingly pricing Gunner upgrades at a premium. We’ve been told Luke is about 30 points and also that Vet Turret Gunner is 10 points. Bistan isn’t as game breaking as Luke/Gunner, but it’s closer to the 1e double tap than Vet Turret Gunner. So my wild swag at cost is half way between Luke and VTG. I do agree that 20 is probably too high, but I also think nobody (except maybe @ficklegreendice and a couple others) thought they were going to price Luke/Gunner that high out of the gate.

The Falcon title at 10 points is based on a couple thoughts. One is that 2e Lone Wolf (1 reroll per round if no nearby friendlies) is 5 points, and the Falcon title seems like it’s better than that... Also, these passive mods that require no action seem to be getting premium pricing. Yes, you need to take an Evade action to trigger the title, but then you get possibly multiple rerolls on defense for no further action cost.

I price EU that high because it’s getting put on a fairly high Initiative large base ship. I think FFG is taking lessons learned from 1e and will price EU on Lando (and Han) quite high.

I do appreciate the feedback! Bistan is probably more like 15 points...

1e RecSpec is 3 points...

I'd guess at Bistan being 10 or less, personally. He allows double tapping from the same arc, which is powerful, but only against 2 different ships, and only if you've got a focus token from somewhere, so he doesn't work at all on Leebo, and loses a lot of synergy with the Falcon title on anyone other than Lando.

The Falcon title we don't have any real idea of. It's better than Lone Wolf for defence... except that it requires you to take an evade action every round to get its benefit, and to not have the token stolen, nor to spend it. Token attacks are much, MUCH more common than they were, with Jam being added to the mix, and with Palob's ability getting much longer range, etc. And it doesn't work at all on attack. I'd probably peg it at about the same level as 2e LW.

6 hours ago, J1mBob said:

In my original post I mentioned that I placed a “?” after my guesses and the costs without a “?” are from the Alex Davy information transcribed in the “Changes” google doc. I wouldn’t call those numbers “confirmed” but they are way better than my guesses!

Copilot I listed as 2 points based on 1e ReccSpec being 1 point.

The Changes doc reports Davy as saying Luke/Gunner is about 30 points. I think they’re pricing Luke that high because the card breaks a 2e rule. I think another 2e “rule” is that they’re trying to not have the straight up 1e Gunner double tap without caveats. They’re also seemingly pricing Gunner upgrades at a premium. We’ve been told Luke is about 30 points and also that Vet Turret Gunner is 10 points. Bistan isn’t as game breaking as Luke/Gunner, but it’s closer to the 1e double tap than Vet Turret Gunner. So my wild swag at cost is half way between Luke and VTG. I do agree that 20 is probably too high, but I also think nobody (except maybe @ficklegreendice and a couple others) thought they were going to price Luke/Gunner that high out of the gate.

The Falcon title at 10 points is based on a couple thoughts. One is that 2e Lone Wolf (1 reroll per round if no nearby friendlies) is 5 points, and the Falcon title seems like it’s better than that... Also, these passive mods that require no action seem to be getting premium pricing. Yes, you need to take an Evade action to trigger the title, but then you get possibly multiple rerolls on defense for no further action cost.

I price EU that high because it’s getting put on a fairly high Initiative large base ship. I think FFG is taking lessons learned from 1e and will price EU on Lando (and Han) quite high.

I do appreciate the feedback! Bistan is probably more like 15 points...

1e Recon Spec is 3 points, so tha would be 6 in 2e. Which seems like an okay price to pay. 2 would be autotake every time...

I understand Gunners being expensive, and i think with 15 points for Bistan you’re much closer to reality. People might actually pay the price of more than old Luke for such an effect. If Swarms become a thing especially.

If Luke is 30 points, it’s really that they created him as training wheels. Which i find okay. He won’t ever come anywhere close to a competitive game like this. Unless arc dodging aces get really rampant, so that any cost is justified to blow them up. I just find it sad they had to use Luke for this effect. I would have liked to see him having a playable competitive effect.

The Title is a very conditional reroll on 1 green die. For what that’s worth. I can’t see it being any more expensive than Lone Wolf really. Since that’s once per turn but can be used on offense.

EU is really the question. Lando barely needs it since he wants to do blues anyway, but it does objectively much less than last edition and is accessible only if you already improve on an action you have. I really don’t think that would justify 8 old points (that was the cost of the Emperor after all...)

26 minutes ago, ForceM said:

If Luke is 30 points, it’s really that they created him as training wheels. Which i find okay. He won’t ever come anywhere close to a competitive game like this. Unless arc dodging aces get really rampant, so that any cost is justified to blow them up. I just find it sad they had to use Luke for this effect. I would have liked to see him having a playable competitive effect.

I was thinking the same thing, but then there's Luke Pilot, and it feels a lot better that he's really good.

According to Alex they mostly created Luke for more thematic scenarios/ebvents, so they priced him to be uncompetitive.

And him being training wheels makes sense. It's not like he ever sat in the gunner's chair again after 'great job kid, don't get cocky'...

57 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

According to Alex they mostly created Luke for more thematic scenarios/ebvents, so they priced him to be uncompetitive.

And him being training wheels makes sense. It's not like he ever sat in the gunner's chair again after 'great job kid, don't get cocky'...

This saddens me. I don’t want an iconic character based upgrade that never sees play. We had Leia for all of 1.0.

7 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

This saddens me. I don’t want an iconic character based upgrade that never sees play. We had Leia for all of 1.0.

Fortunately, Luke Pilot is a goddang BEAST.

And way more thematically relevant given that he spends way more time in an x-wing in the movies than manning a gun