So, I noticed that Arviss played an eClawdite at Worlds, byt a rClawdite at Europeans. Any insight into this? Was it mere a question of getting those 2 points for something else - or do you generally find the rClawdite gets more value for it's points? Or did it fill a completely different role in the build (which is similar to the Worlds build though). Just curious, since, at first I was super underwhelmed with the eClawdite (I often rolled 0-1 surge on turn 1 Senator). Then I used rClawdite a bit, and was generally happier with it but it just really filled the role as turn 1 buffer and then runner.

After seeing Arviss' Worlds list, I decided to give the eClawdite a go again, and has been pretty happy with it. Would you ever consider deploying it, as a Sniper rather than Senator turn 1?

I've been running a rClawdite the last week or so, and super happy with it so far. Gonna test the elite next game I play. I don't think turn 1 sniper is good tho. Why not run eQuays instead? I do often swap to sniper turn 2 though.

Definitely not all maps, but I'm thinking that some maps with a focus on the clawdite you could long-range snipe a good support figure such as Gideon/Hera even while blocked by others. I'd run eWeequays too, but they can't shoot through people.

With one more yellow die, the elite Shapeshifter Senator is far more likely to bring the needed surges for conspire. I've seen the regular Shapeshifter Senator roll no surge at all more than once.

The Streetrat as well as the Scout both are not very effective for their points. They are just OK to be used, when the Senator has done his job and you still need a Spy in your list.

I average about .5 surges with the elite clawdites' conspire. Neither of these figures are cost effective. Compare their surge abilities, damage oitput, health, etc with elite Weequay, elite jet troopers or even elite riot troopers (not considered good)

Clawdites are the most glaring figures (regular or elite ) that do not hold up to current skirmish standards. All of HotE falls short of Jabba's Realm standard. I'd rather take a set of hired guns.

With red/green/yellow/yellow, you'll have a 95.37% of rolling at least 1 surge; 75.93% of at least 2; 43.29% of at least 3. Personally I have rolled 0 surges more than 0.5% of the time. Math is dumb.

With red/green/yellow, the odds are reduced to 86.11% of rolling at least 1 surge; 48.61% of rolling at least 2; 13.89% of rolling at least 3.

I think if Senator form guaranteed at least 1 SURGE no matter the roll results, rClawdite would be too strong. Iggy gets a token! Focus/Hidden eWeequays get a token! Great weeping and gnashing of teeth over Scum Hunters!

But I also think that eClawdites should distribute at least 1 Token at the cost of a special action. Even for a hybrid support -- where the support abilities granted should be limited compared to full support figures and non-combatants -- a figure with the deployment cost of eClawdites should factor into some sort of static benefit.

Expecting the dice to roll perfectly as the odds predict is a fallacy in itself.

As you say, a guaranteed token would probably be too strong.

There needs to be some risk of failure in the actions, or why play at all?

If they had a guarantee to pass out 1, the ability would probably have to be capped at 2 to keep it balanced.

The yellow dice adds some real value to the eClaw, but the 4 points for the rClaw is just easier to fit in some lists. If that two points represents black market and devious scheme, I’d probably go for the rClaw

at the cost of an action, I need to at least get something out of it. the fact that I've got 1 surge out of the last 7 conspire tries, makes it hard to justify taking any clawdite. Their health/cost ratio is not super favorable, they don't really perform any of their "roles" reliably and compared to every other "type" of figure they fall short. Why can't Mercs have support ?

Why isn't there a dedicated token support figure ? Why can't we have support for figures without a gimmick? (looking at 0-poor support outside of 3PO and Gideon)

3 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

at the cost of an action, I need to at least get something out of it. the fact that I've got 1 surge out of the last 7 conspire tries, makes it hard to justify taking any clawdite. Their health/cost ratio is not super favorable, they don't really perform any of their "roles" reliably and compared to every other "type" of figure they fall short. Why can't Mercs have support ?

Why isn't there a dedicated token support figure ? Why can't we have support for figures without a gimmick? (looking at 0-poor support outside of 3PO and Gideon)

But I mean, you know that's not normal, right? If you're saying that you only rolled a single surge in seven tries, the odds of that happening with an rClawdite are 1 in almost 3000. If you're saying that you never rolled more than one surge in 7 tries, the odds of that happening with the rClawdite are still less than 1/100. eClawdite odds would be much longer still. I'm not saying that it didn't happen like you've described it, but I am saying that it's weird to declare a figure as bad based on such a spectacular run of bad luck.

Clawdites can't perform any of their roles as well as a dedicated figure in that role, but what you're paying for is the versatility. If you're leaving them in senator form the whole game then you're better off with the RCP (but let's face it you were probably bringing them anyway), and if you're using them as a cheap sniper the whole game you're probably better of bringing in Mak or something. The beauty of the clawdite is that they can be a senator AND a sniper AND a quick melee figure, depending on what the situation calls for.

As for support, IMO Jabba's actually a pretty good merc support figure that does a lot of really helpful things. His only real problem is that he's not as good as the Gideon/3P0 combo, and it's hard to have 12+ points of support in a successful list.

20 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

at the cost of an action, I need to at least get something out of it. the fact that I've got 1 surge out of the last 7 conspire tries, makes it hard to justify taking any clawdite. Their health/cost ratio is not super favorable, they don't really perform any of their "roles" reliably and compared to every other "type" of figure they fall short. Why can't Mercs have support ?

Why isn't there a dedicated token support figure ? Why can't we have support for figures without a gimmick? (looking at 0-poor support outside of 3PO and Gideon)

Mercs have Jabba. He is basically all supprt.

This is a little more deep seeded for me.

Focus is a little too good, Gideon and C3po are really cheap and easy focus generators. My complaint is that Murne, Blaise, even Ko-tun and some of the others are poor substitutes. The Clawdites don't supply tokens reliably. I know I'm in a rut with my clawdites rolling surges, but overall, why is there not another support character? Why can't we get a figures that helps Hide other figures without some gimmick (like Murne and Blaise) why did Hide get pushed to the sideline as an ability? They've released the power tokens in HotE and again in Tyrants (we don't know everything about Tyrants yet) but again, so far, there is no figure that reliably passes out a token that is well-costed (ko-tun is the closest and he pays a steep, steep price for his cancel Dodge ability)

I'd be allright with an Imperial counter to 3PO, a figure that maybe can't attack but can pass out power tokens, etc would be a welcome addition.

Jabba is good, but rarely played due to Gideon + whoever always trumping him.

I think the issue with Jabba vs. the RCP is that Jabba is only one activation. With having the last activation so critical against Han, Vader, or IG, it's difficult to bring Jabba and have 8-9 quality activations.

34 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I'd be allright with an Imperial counter to 3PO, a figure that maybe can't attack but can pass out power tokens, etc would be a welcome addition.

Didn't somebody come up with a custom Gonk droid figure that did that? I'm too lazy to search, but I'm not too lazy to make Gonk noises.

GONK.

GONK.

GONK.

Ah, so the issue here is that Merc don't have a super-duper support figure that can be used instead of Gideon/3P0/Hera

If any faction should be annoyed by this it should be Imperials, who have Imperial Officers and that's basically it?

No access to Focus or Hide really. Barely any access to Power Tokens.

But no. Clawdites are the issue because they're not as strong as (arguably) the easiest 6 points Mercs or Rebels will ever build around?

Maybe the issue isn't the Clawdites (or your apparently dreadful luck with the dice), but the fact that Temporary Alliance is still even a thing.

It was a fix to limitations in the core box. Those limitations don't exist anymore, so just ban the thing and be done with it.

Isn't the primary reason to run clawdites the access they give you to Strategic Shift and Intelligence Leak? A lot of lists were adding random cheap spies like Mak to be able to utilize those incredibly potent cards in a meta where command cards are so powerful and so plentiful. So if you're mostly running them for the command cards, I would think the rClawdite makes more sense.

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:53 PM, ManateeX said:

it's hard to have 12+ points of support in a successful list.

All good Rebels AND Merc lists on the European Championships had Hera, Gideon, R2 and 3PO. Including the needed Temp Alliance this is 13 points, including the necessary Jawa even 16 points.

The clawdite is a very unreliable support figure though. If he doesn't pan out or deliver, there is rarely a second opportunity later in the game when he will be the senator again and be adjacent to those that need his tokens. It's like the developers have still not learned their leason from Blaise, Somos, officers, advanced comms, etc

14 hours ago, buckero0 said:

The clawdite is a very unreliable support figure though. If he doesn't pan out or deliver, there is rarely a second opportunity later in the game when he will be the senator again and be adjacent to those that need his tokens. It's like the developers have still not learned their leason from Blaise, Somos, officers, advanced comms, etc

It all depends on who you're giving tokens to. Someone already mentioned giving vinto surges. Giving IG evades is also worthwhile. I agree if the clawdite is just handing out single damage tokens then he isn't good value. The clawdite's player needs to have a plan for how to distribute the tokens as part of their opening.

1 hour ago, Averagejo3gam3r said:

It all depends on who you're giving tokens to. Someone already mentioned giving vinto surges. Giving IG evades is also worthwhile. I agree if the clawdite is just handing out single damage tokens then he isn't good value. The clawdite's player needs to have a plan for how to distribute the tokens as part of their opening.

Absolutely. I've been considering some sort of Creature list. If the Clawdite can give a Nexu x2 Evade tokens, and then jump the Nexu into their midst to block of one side of the map while you advance behind it. Than insures at least 1 Block & 1 Evade against the first two attacks. This weekend I used an Imperial Hunter list, and while it didn't do too too good, giving the Inquisitor a Surge token was instrumental to his value, ensuring that Cleave 3.

10 minutes ago, aermet69 said:

Absolutely. I've been considering some sort of Creature list. If the Clawdite can give a Nexu x2 Evade tokens, and then jump the Nexu into their midst to block of one side of the map while you advance behind it. Than insures at least 1 Block & 1 Evade against the first two attacks. This weekend I used an Imperial Hunter list, and while it didn't do too too good, giving the Inquisitor a Surge token was instrumental to his value, ensuring that Cleave 3.

Hmmm...nexu is interesting. I've been experimenting with trying to fit Jyn in a merc list and it just messes up the other support figures.

Jyn is pretty interesting too!

he can only give 1 token to a figure. He can do that 3 times but only one per figure as I read it. I used to load up Vinto as well. My gripe is that the Senator cannot shoot without dying ( guaranteed 2 accuracy is the worst there is outside of hired guns) so he needs to be more reliable in his support. Line of Sight or a figure within 3 spaces, etc would be much better if we still have to be stuck with random surge generation just to make the figure flexible.

Hm. I wouldn't say it's obvious from the wording, if you can give one or more to the same figure.

I like the sniper form a lot to pick off enemy support and when the fighting get's thick and/or you need to dash to an objective, the street rat is solid. A good finisher, especially with a Surge token to guarentee that knife attack. I would have loved a point reduction or a few more HP or defensive bonus but with the Hunter trait he can still do stuff and on top, he allows you to run spy cards.

3 minutes ago, aermet69 said:

Hm. I wouldn't say it's obvious from the wording, if you can give one or more to the same figure.

Sure you can give more than one to a figure. Conspire (translated to a more verbose form): For a maximum of 3 times, for each surge result perform: you choose yourself or an adjacent friendly figure, and that figure gains a power token of your choice.

Each figure can have maximum of 2 power tokens at a time though. If more are gained, any excess must be discarded.