Isn't a Lightsaber good enough?

I like the EotE light saber and I feel like it does the job in every way I want it to without making it the Rod of Lordly Might . I like the idea of some minor customization but not having the lightsaber do things like Stunning opponents or acting as a Lightaber+Flamethrower combo via Burn.

Which version do you prefer in your games?

9 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Isn't a Lightsaber good enough?

I like the EotE light saber and I feel like it does the job in every way I want it to without making it the Rod of Lordly Might . I like the idea of some minor customization but not having the lightsaber do things like Stunning opponents or acting as a Lightaber+Flamethrower combo via Burn.

Which version do you prefer in your games?

I prefer the F&D sabers; particularly, I like the crafting options that Endless Vigil provides. Lightsabers, by their nature are very personal weapons, each custom crafted by their wielders, as such, no two should be alike.

Depends entirely on the tone. If I have a group of Jedi Knights running around in the Old Republic, a lot of them want modification options and the ability to stand out from each other. So it's nice to have dueling sabers, double-bladed sabers, sabers that are built for underwater functionality, sabers that have Burn or Stun qualities.

The EotE saber, on the other hand, is great for capturing that mythic feel that Episode IV had to it. No hard points, no career skill ranks; just this weapon of energy—"Your father's lightsaber."

I didn't consider The Old Republic time frame and I agree that is a different ball of wax

Sometimes less is more.

I generally prefer the EoTE lightsaber, but it is a total beast damage-wise.

A few minor mods or aesthetic flourishes is good, but a million and one crystals and other mods is too fiddly for me.

Too much fiddly modification can draw the focus off the wielder. I don't want that.

Unless I'm running a game where the theme and focus is lightsaber construction and modification, of course.

At that point, bring on the options. I know a lot of gamers love tweaking gear and if that's the game they want so be it.

But, overall, I'm not telling stories about building lightsabers. Just characters wielding them.

At the same time, the notion that a generic lightsaber crystal can be refined by a force wielding is interesting, at least.

Maybe one crystal type with a list of crystal mods and "you can take two" would be a decent compromise point.

But, as it is, I generally run standard EoTE sabers.

5 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Sometimes less is more.

I generally prefer the EoTE lightsaber, but it is a total beast damage-wise.

A few minor mods or aesthetic flourishes is good, but a million and one crystals and other mods is too fiddly for me.

Too much fiddly modification can draw the focus off the wielder. I don't want that.

Unless I'm running a game where the theme and focus is lightsaber construction and modification, of course.

At that point, bring on the options. I know a lot of gamers love tweaking gear and if that's the game they want so be it.

But, overall, I'm not telling stories about building lightsabers. Just characters wielding them.

At the same time, the notion that a generic lightsaber crystal can be refined by a force wielding is interesting, at least.

Maybe one crystal type with a list of crystal mods and "you can take two" would be a decent compromise point.

But, as it is, I generally run standard EoTE sabers.

I'm the complete opposite when it comes to crystals. The more the better. Give me Mephite, give me Solari crystals, give me Kimber Stones, give me Krayt Dragon pearls.

I like the classics, but . . .

I'm running in a group with:

A classic lightsaber

A lightsaber pike

A lightsaber used by a force sensitive sharpshooter as a bayonet

A lightsaber mounted in a cyberarm as a cutting torch.

And I'm the last. Somehow, in a group finding our own way in the force with minimal guidance, the non normal is more fitting. If we'd been brought up Jedi (or Sith), maybe we'd have felt differently. (Oh, all have ilum crystals, though, if that was the thought?)

2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm the complete opposite when it comes to crystals. The more the better. Give me Mephite, give me Solari crystals, give me Kimber Stones, give me Krayt Dragon pearls.

And I say "more power to you!"

Get down with your Age of Aquarius crystal loving self.

For me, I love the iconic appeal of "your father's lightsaber."

1 minute ago, Darzil said:

I like the classics, but . . .

I'm running in a group with:

A classic lightsaber

A lightsaber pike

A lightsaber used by a force sensitive sharpshooter as a bayonet

A lightsaber mounted in a cyberarm as a cutting torch.

And I'm the last. Somehow, in a group finding our own way in the force with minimal guidance, the non normal is more fitting. If we'd been brought up Jedi (or Sith), maybe we'd have felt differently. (Oh, all have ilum crystals, though, if that was the thought?)

By my lights what you are describing is mostly aesthetic differences.

If they all have Illum crystals with similar mechanical properties, then your dealing in style rather than substance.

If the actual properties vary, then that's a substantive difference.

My concern is really just in that I don't want lightsabers to turn into a swiss army knife. I think Lightsabers may be one of the coolest things ever invented so to me they kind of do fine on their own. But because I don't go in for all the extra effects on the lightsabers would you say that the extra effects and what not are needed to make it compete with 600 xp ranged characters with ultra modded rifles?

13 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

My concern is really just in that I don't want lightsabers to turn into a swiss army knife. I think Lightsabers may be one of the coolest things ever invented so to me they kind of do fine on their own. But because I don't go in for all the extra effects on the lightsabers would you say that the extra effects and what not are needed to make it compete with 600 xp ranged characters with ultra modded rifles?

I have a similar concern: excessive modding renders sabers mundane.

Lightsabers are the most awesome things ever.

"Oh My God! Oh My God! Oh My God! Its a lightsaber!"

That should be the reaction. Period.

Not, "Yeah, but its a just stock lightsaber with a pedestrian kyber crystal in a standard hilt... yawn... boooooooring! "

When you hear that ignition sound and thrum-thrum-thrum you should be giddy.

I know tweakers got to tweak, but excessive tweaking kills the inherent mythic romance sabers bring to myimagination.

Make it a beast and say "customize your color and hilt style" and I'm happy.

The gazillion options for lightsabers honestly annoy me. Weapon customization in general actually, but lightsabers take the cake. A little detail or accent here or there is fine, don’t get me wrong, but in the movies and shows almost all of that is purely cosmetic. And these customizations serves barely any real purpose, other than letting you do something with your narrative dice result. For me they don’t make the game better. Some of my players feel differently and that’s ok too, but for me it’s a distraction.

Wait you mean you don't want this???

19 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

My concern is really just in that I don't want lightsabers to turn into a swiss army knife. I think Lightsabers may be one of the coolest things ever invented so to me they kind of do fine on their own. But because I don't go in for all the extra effects on the lightsabers would you say that the extra effects and what not are needed to make it compete with 600 xp ranged characters with ultra modded rifles?

7 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I have a similar concern: excessive modding renders sabers mundane.

Lightsabers are the most awesome things ever.

"Oh My God! Oh My God! Oh My God! Its a lightsaber!"

That should be the reaction. Period.

Not, "Yeah, but its a just stock lightsaber with a pedestrian kyber crystal in a standard hilt... yawn... boooooooring! "

When you hear that ignition sound and thrum-thrum-thrum you should be giddy.

I know tweakers got to tweak, but excessive tweaking kills the inherent mythic romance sabers bring to myimagination.

Make it a beast and say "customize your color and hilt style" and I'm happy.

I would say, with absolute certainty, that yes, the capability to fully customize a lightsaber is necessary when dealing with other heavily modded weapons and armors. They also greatly help differentiate each character’s fighting styles, particularly when the weapon has been optimized for a given form. The lightsaber optimized for a Malachi Duelist should be mechanically different than one built by, and for, a Niman Disciple, Ataru Striker, or Shien Expert.

In terms of game balance from a GM's perspective, I prefer the F&D lightsabers, at least with regards to the Ilum crystal.

The EotE/AoR version was just too potent, even if just using raw ability dice (or attacking with two proficiency dice if you had the Sense upgrade to bolster your combat checks).

In terms of the variety of crystals that the RPG offers, I can see that being a problem, especially for a GM that would prefer to keep their games a little closer to what the non-RPG and non-video game has established about lightsaber crystals; namely, that a lightsaber crystal has the same effects no matter where it's from or how it was created. For the most part, as the GM unless the player expresses an interest in a very specific type of crystal, I tend to go with the basic Ilum crystal as the "default" kyber crystal, though I did make use of the corrupted crystals from Disciples of Harmony in my most recent campaign for kyber crystals that were taken from a defeated Inquisitor's lightsaber; one PC has a high enough Morality that she was able to purify the crystal she's using without a problem while another isn't even close to that point and will probably be facing some issues with avoiding the temptation of extra power the corrupted crystal can provide.

With regards to the Ilum crystal, what's nice about that is it still starts off with a kick (Breach 1 is nothing to sneeze at), but it's also a weapon that can grow and develop along with the PC, and that while getting it to the level of the EotE/AoR lightsaber can take some doing for most builds, it's still a nice feeling of accomplishment when you get the crystal that much closer to it's 'perfected' state.

25 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I would say, with absolute certainty, that yes, the capability to fully customize a lightsaber is necessary when dealing with other heavily modded weapons and armors. They also greatly help differentiate each character’s fighting styles, particularly when the weapon has been optimized for a given form. The lightsaber optimized for a Malachi Duelist should be mechanically different than one built by, and for, a Niman Disciple, Ataru Striker, or Shien Expert.

From a mechanical and optimization tweaker standpoint that is a fair point. If that is the norm for a group or a given table, then it would be essential.

My players, however, aren't optimizers. They don't do much in terms of modding anything so its never cropped up as an issue in our games.

They love the narrative dice system but really don't like digging into the crunchy mechanical details. That's stuff they expect me to deal with.

I can do that digging (I can optimize with the best of them), but don't love it. I'm more story, character, and trope focused.

It could be, fantastic books and delightful dice system aside, this isn't the game for us. FFG has all but fetishized the options/optimization/variables crunch.

As a result, my relationship to the system is love/hate. A good deal more love than hate, but if we're being honest, our style is less crunchy.

29 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

The EotE/AoR version was just too potent, even if just using raw ability dice (or attacking with two proficiency dice if you had the Sense upgrade to bolster your combat checks).

In terms of the variety of crystals that the RPG offers, I can see that being a problem, especially for a GM that would prefer to keep their games a little closer to what the non-RPG and non-video game has established about lightsaber crystals; namely, that a lightsaber crystal has the same effects no matter where it's from or how it was created. For the most part, as the GM unless the player expresses an interest in a very specific type of crystal, I tend to go with the basic Ilum crystal as the "default" kyber crystal, though I did make use of the corrupted crystals from

With regards to the Ilum crystal, what's nice about that is it still starts off with a kick (Breach 1 is nothing to sneeze at), but it's also a weapon that can grow and develop along with the PC, and that while getting it to the level of the EotE/AoR lightsaber can take some doing for most builds, it's still a nice feeling of accomplishment when you get the crystal that much closer to it's 'perfected' state.

I agree the EoTE sabers are nuclear murder sticks.

I think having all saber crystals be Illum crystals unless a special exception is made would be an excellent compromise.

But, for me, exotic crystals should remain exotic. This is for the reason you state: I want crystals to more closely model non-gaming crystals.

The gazillion and one crystals and gazillion and one mods is unique to tweaky gamer culture.

4 minutes ago, Vondy said:

From a mechanical and optimization tweaker standpoint that is a fair point. If that is the norm for a group or a given table, then it would be essential.

My players, however, aren't optimizers. They don't do much in terms of modding anything so its never cropped up as an issue in our games.

They love the narrative dice system but really don't like digging into the crunchy mechanical details. That's stuff they expect me to deal with.

I can do that digging (I can optimize with the best of them), but don't love it. I'm more story, character, and trope focused.

It could be, fantastic books and delightful dice system aside, this isn't the game for us. FFG has all but fetishized the options/optimization/variables crunch.

As a result, my relationship to the system is love/hate. A good deal more love than hate, but if we're being honest, our style is less crunchy.

For me it’s more than simply being from an “optimizer’s perspective. It’s also a matter of the narrative aspects of these different options, particularly the crystals as provided by the different sources in the lore. As for Ilum crystals, those are perhaps my least favorite type of lightsaber crystal. I find them boring and “generic”, not just mechanically, but also narratively.

I much prefer customization because it differentitates my characters in FAD, Depending on the Jedi/Sith behind it the stlye of the saber can very much be a story telling tool.

Palpatine's sabers are ornate and beautiful to look at but terribly small and hard to wield perfect for Palpatine who thought he was better than the Jedi and didn't need to use the Saber but when he did he wanted it to be eye catching.

Vader's Saber is functional and large enough to be wielded in two hands, perfectly balanced so a fighter could easily wield it. It had many advanced attachments one such was the ability to change the length of the blade at will so he could throw off his opponents and go in for the kill.

Your saber tells the story of your Jedi or Sith in every way you tweak it.

11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

For me it’s more than simply being from an “optimizer’s perspective. It’s also a matter of the narrative aspects of these different options, particularly the crystals as provided by the different sources in the lore. As for Ilum crystals, those are perhaps my least favorite type of lightsaber crystal. I find them boring and “generic”, not just mechanically, but also narratively.

An Illum crystal wouldn't be my go-to crystal, either. Because EoTE sabers are such beasts we did ultimately use a F&D sabers instead. All three Jedi in our group (actual Jedi survivors) have now-modded Etaan Crystals. I guess that makes the Etaan crystal our "baseline crystal." The characters all have different specs, skill focuses, stories, styles, and personalities so having the (mostly) same crystal hasn't proven problematic.

13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

For me it’s more than simply being from an “optimizer’s perspective. It’s also a matter of the narrative aspects of these different options, particularly the crystals as provided by the different sources in the lore. As for Ilum crystals, those are perhaps my least favorite type of lightsaber crystal. I find them boring and “generic”, not just mechanically, but also narratively.

I agree Ilum Crystals are boring, my Favorites are the Mephite Crystal because it's able to hit really hard being modded to 11 damage at max and the Sapith Gem so I can have Breach 2 and ignore all the Armors!

I hope the Warrior book adds the most powerful of the Adegan Crsytals the Pontite crystal Currently the Mephite crystal another type of Adegan Crystal is in game.

22 minutes ago, Vondy said:

An Illum crystal wouldn't be my go-to crystal, either. Because EoTE sabers are such beasts we did ultimately use a F&D sabers instead. All three Jedi in our group (actual Jedi survivors) have now-modded Etaan Crystals. I guess that makes the Etaan crystal our "baseline crystal." The characters all have different specs, skill focuses, stories, styles, and personalities so having the (mostly) same crystal hasn't proven problematic.

Yeah, personally, I also find Ilum crystals too weak , not too strong, particularly at the start.

14 minutes ago, Shlambate said:

I agree Ilum Crystals are boring, my Favorites are the Mephite Crystal because it's able to hit really hard being modded to 11 damage at max and the Sapith Gem so I can have Breach 2 and ignore all the Armors!

I hope the Warrior book adds the most powerful of the Adegan Crsytals the Pontite crystal Currently the Mephite crystal another type of Adegan Crystal is in game.

Yep. Mephite is my favorite, hands down, with Solari coming a close second. FYI, if you throw in an extended hilt and a Superior Hilt, you can boost that damage up to thirteen. You can do the same with a Kimber Stone too for stun damage. As for Pontite, the Greek Wood lightsaber in Nexus of Power has a Pontite crystal, though whether it’s a fully modded one or unmodded is unknown. It should be noted that Pontite is almost purely a defensive crystal, not offensive.

41 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah, personally, I also find Ilum crystals too weak , not too strong, particularly at the start.

Yep. Mephite is my favorite, hands down, with Solari coming a close second. FYI, if you throw in an extended hilt and a Superior Hilt, you can boost that damage up to thirteen. You can do the same with a Kimber Stone too for stun damage. As for Pontite, the Greek Wood lightsaber in Nexus of Power has a Pontite crystal, though whether it’s a fully modded one or unmodded is unknown. It should be noted that Pontite is almost purely a defensive crystal, not offensive.

Once people start talking about boosting lightsaber damage to 11+ I stop worrying about EoTE sabers being total beasts.... ?

3 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Once people start talking about boosting lightsaber damage to 11+ I stop worrying about EoTE sabers being total beasts.... ?

My lightsaber does a Base thirteen damage using a fully modded Mephite crystal and fully modded Kimber Stone plus the other two attachments I mentioned above. Both crystals start at a base of nine damage, be that wounds and strain respectively.

4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

My lightsaber does a Base thirteen damage using a fully modded Mephite crystal and fully modded Kimber Stone plus the other two attachments I mentioned above. Both crystals start at a base of nine damage, be that wounds and strain respectively.

I'm not even playing in your league.