1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's where we disagree. IF the saber isn't optimized for a given style, it can hurt the user; not literally injure him, but if the lightsaber isn't designed to work with a given set of talents, that saber can impede the character's use of the weapon. For instance, give a Makashi Duelist a saber optimized for a Shien Expert , and the Makashi Duelist would have a hard time using it effectively. However, give him a saber with a curved hilt, and optimized for Makashi, and he'll be much more likely to blow away any other Makashi Duelist of equal skill and talent.

Nobody’s saying using a saber that doesn’t synergize with your build is not going to be less effective than using one that complements your stats and talents. What I’m saying is that a Force user with a run-of-the-mill saber and a decent build can hold his own, compared to others using high end gear. He won’t be as good as he’d be with an optimal saber, but that wasn’t the argument.

1 minute ago, nameless ronin said:

Nobody’s saying using a saber that doesn’t synergize with your build is not going to be less effective than using one that complements your stats and talents. What I’m saying is that a Force user with a run-of-the-mill saber and a decent build can hold his own, compared to others using high end gear. He won’t be as good as he’d be with an optimal saber, but that wasn’t the argument.

Sure, against someone else with only a "run-of-the-mill" weapon. Put him up against someone with the same skills and talents (or comparable ones), and a weapon optimized for those skills and talents, and the guy with the "run-of-the-mill" weapon will likely lose big time. And I don't just mean lightsabers either. One thing to remember though. An EotE/AoR lightsaber is not a "Basic" lightsaber. It's a fully tricked out weapon with all of its hard points filled, and a fully modded Ilum crystal.

20 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

@Vondy , That too is where we disagree. A number of the saber crystals available, such as Mephite, Kimber Stone, and Krayt Dragon Pearl, start at 8 or 9 Damage. With the "limits" you would impose. That would basically ban people from modding those crystals or taking such attachments as the Superior Hilt Personalization or Extended Hilt, both of which add to the damage dealt per hit.

It does not "basically" ban people from modding their sabers. Firstly, not all mods are damage related and base-damage mods are not necessarily the most effective mods. I'd rather have crit-1 and some extra vicious than a few points of base damage. Secondly, there is still a point or two of base damage modification those blades could take with a cap of 10. Thirdly, what we are disagreeing about is really the style and flow of play we desire. There is no right or wrong in that. Only personal preference. As I result I won't argue with you about it. In fact, I'm not arguing with you. I am presenting a different perspective. You appear to desire a game in which sabers are one-shot one-kill weapons for non saber-wielders and in which duels are decided in one or two passes (based on math). If that's the game you want, more power to you. It is not the game I want and, as such, I will scale my game accordingly.

13 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Sure, against someone else with only a "run-of-the-mill" weapon. Put him up against someone with the same skills and talents (or comparable ones), and a weapon optimized for those skills and talents, and the guy with the "run-of-the-mill" weapon will likely lose big time. And I don't just mean lightsabers either. One thing to remember though. An EotE/AoR lightsaber is not a "Basic" lightsaber. It's a fully tricked out weapon with all of its hard points filled, and a fully modded Ilum crystal.

I guess this is where our experiences differ. Against optimized armor and ranged weapons, a good saber build with a regular saber can hold its own, at least going by the games I’ve been involved in.

6 minutes ago, Vondy said:

It does not "basically" ban people from modding their sabers. Firstly, not all mods are damage related and base-damage mods are not necessarily the most effective mods. I'd rather have crit-1 and some extra vicious than a few points of base damage. Secondly, there is still a point or two of base damage modification those blades could take with a cap of 10. Thirdly, what we are disagreeing about is really the style and flow of play we desire. There is no right or wrong in that. Only personal preference. As I result I won't argue with you about it. In fact, I'm not arguing with you. I am presenting a different perspective. You appear to desire a game in which sabers are one-shot one-kill weapons for non saber-wielders and in which duels are decided in one or two passes (based on math). If that's the game you want, more power to you. It is not the game I want and, as such, I will scale my game accordingly.

Not at all. There are plenty of options for "balancing out" fully modded lightsabers. The biggest one being Cortosis Weave/Beskar. That cancels out Breach and Sunder.

Just now, nameless ronin said:

I guess this is where our experiences differ. Against optimized armor and ranged weapons, a good saber build with a regular saber can hold its own, at least going by the games I’ve been involved in.

IF what you mean by a "good" saber build is the EotE/AoR lightsaber, sure, particularly given that, as I have already stated, The EotE/AoR lightsaber is already a fully tricked out weapon with a fully modified crystal . By contrast, a basic lightsaber with an unmodified crystal and no attachments, will lose against optimized weapons and armor of any type.

26 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

IF what you mean by a "good" saber build is the EotE/AoR lightsaber, sure, particularly given that, as I have already stated, The EotE/AoR lightsaber is already a fully tricked out weapon with a fully modified crystal . By contrast, a basic lightsaber with an unmodified crystal and no attachments, will lose against optimized weapons and armor of any type.

No, I mean a good character build. Talents, skills and powers.

Just now, nameless ronin said:

No, I mean a good character build. Talents, skills and powers.

You put someone with a good "character" build but with a sub-par or mediocre weapon, against someone with an optimized weapon, and he'll be slaughtered . Skill and talent alone are not enough, just as a good weapon alone is not enough. You need both a skilled and talented character with a weapon optimized for those skills and talents. You need the full package .

A prime example of this is in the now L egends Young Jedi Knights book Lightsabers . Tenel Ka builds her first lightsaber but with a faulty crystal, assuming it'll be "good enough" since she believed her skill would more than make up for any flaws in the weapon. Her folly cost her her arm .

54 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Not at all. There are plenty of options for "balancing out" fully modded lightsabers. The biggest one being Cortosis Weave/Beskar. That cancels out Breach and Sunder.

I'm going to introduce you to my three pass rule for internet discussions.

If after having stated my preferences and underlying rationale three times my interlocutor insists on banging away hammer and tongs because their own preferences differ I walk.

Why? Because we are talking past one another and wasting precious time and breath. Life is too short.

I impose a 10 damage limit in my games because it suits the play experience and combat flow I and my group prefer.

We are not min-maxers and do not enjoy or see a need for optimization the way you do. As a result, the issues you see as so vital don't exist in our games.

You should enjoy your good-right-fun while we enjoy our good-bad-fun. More power to you. More power to us.

Lastly , I won't even dignify cherry picking a specific case to argue with a general premise about rules balancing. Really? Utter nonsense.

At this point I'm not going to bash away sword and board with you. We've made three passes. We're done.

22 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

A prime example of this is in the now L egends Young  Jedi Knights book Lightsabers . Tenel Ka builds her first lightsaber but with a faulty crystal, assuming it'll be "good enough" since she believed her skill would more than make up for any flaws in the weapon. Her folly cost her her arm .

And that's one of the reasons why even TLJ-Luke was a better teacher than NJO-Luke...

But now you're conflating a critically flawed weapon with a run of the mill weapon. Truth is, in this game system, skill beats gear when it comes to lightsabers. The basic lightsaber is powerful enough to deal with almost anything in the right hands.

Sure, you can get some nifty bonuses by tricking out your glowstick, but nothing as powerful as some good talents and decent skill levels.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There are plenty of options for "balancing out" fully      modded lightsabers. The biggest one being Cortosis Weave/Beskar. That cancels out Breach and Sunder.

Cortosis weapons cancel sunder, but Djem So disarm is better anyway. Cortosis armor cancels breach but can still be sundered as per dev ruling, and damaged armor imposes setback/difficulty dice on things requiring mobility. I'd include melee combat in this.

Cortosis armor helps with damage mitigation but is also a magnet for sunder.

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's where we disagree. IF the saber isn't optimized for a given style, it can hurt the user; not literally injure him, but if the lightsaber isn't designed to work with a given set of talents, that saber can impede the character's use of the weapon. For instance, give a Makashi Duelist a saber optimized for a Shien Expert , and the Makashi Duelist would have a hard time using it effectively. However, give him a saber with a curved hilt, and optimized for Makashi, and he'll be much more likely to blow away any other Makashi Duelist of equal skill and talent.

@EliasWindrider and I have differing views on what would be considered an "efficient" build. He's more of a Min-Maxer whereas I'm more of a generalist.

You're character isn't even a good generalist, a jack of all trades is a generalist, a 7 of all trades is not. If that's what you were shooting for you should have dumped all your starting xp into attributes and a lot less total xp into skills for starters. Your attributes are so poor you can't make good use of talents (one of many examples is Korath's 2 cunning and the whole full throttle tree, coupled with a sil 5 ship so you can't punch it, coupled with an entirely unimpressive piloting check so you can't reliably maintain full throttle... that's not a generalist pilot, if you had 4's in agility and cunning and no ranks that would be an effective generalist pilot) with the amount of xp you have you could easily have a 3 as your lowest attribute and 2 4's or a 444332 spread, while having at least as many force dice. Your build tries to specialize in a lot of things before achieving basic proficiency in them. If you'd like me to demonstrate what a generalist Korath would look like I'd be happy to

Wow. I'd really hate to hear what people think of my character.

I suspect he wouldn't hold his own in most people's campaigns.

21 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

That's just showing off a rival killing weapon of DOOM! and not really what most people roll with.

Constructing a saber is part of the original trilogy. It's not until Luke builds his own saber that he can call himself a Jedi. The hand down saber from his dad is nice, but it's not his weapon or his crystal. It's just one that he uses until he can and needs to make his own.

The GM decides what crystals are available, the crystals are hella rare and not something you just pick up in a yard sale. Then the weapon grows with the character and becomes a more integral part of the character. They're not just using a lightsaber, they're using their lightsaber. The one they built themselves with the crystal that they found because it was the right one for them. Setting it up this way also allows for a bit more playing around with the saber, if you get captured then having the saber is pretty bad, but if you can remove the crystal and throw the rest away then you can hide the key component and hope to rebuild your saber. Which makes for a somewhat more interesting story and gives more possibilities.

Context

I got the dragite gem and built my lightsaber (disguised as a glow rod) 2 sessions ago, the gm ruled that if we're modding lightsaber crystals in a jedi temple (kotor era game) the check automatically succeeds but we still have to pay for the mod, before then I was using my father's lightsaber (etaan crystal, one mod for an extra rank of parry). I haven't used my new saber yet, because I was planning on getting captured and brought before the BBEG, he's said he wants to turn me to the darkside and that (stun locking him) was one of the two ways I was planning to defeat him, the other was using the high explosive disguised as my belt buckle to breach a viewport on his ship (a leviathan) and suck us both out into space but I have vacuum seals on my reinforced clothing and was going to get the amphibious mod but unlimited power came out before our last session (this past sunday) so I crafted a protective amulet instead so I hoped to survive that tactic. But... after we snuck on board his ship, 2 of us disguised as Sith Troopers (plus a jedi in a crate who didn't want to part with her jedi battle armor) we narrowly missed a deception check (I made it with threat which triggered a second check to be made by the other jedi in Sith trooper armor failed it), I shot the 2 guards at the checkpoint with raquor venom darts, one went down the other didn't and he ran away and sounded the alarm so we started to fight are way to the prison block where the jedi master that we were trying to rescue was being held, the bbeg came on the view screen to negotiate our surrender, and he pulled the trump card/my emotional weakness my obsession to redeem my fallen former master, who came on the viewscreen to negotiate, end of session with negotiations continuing to happen in email and I've sincerely offered to trade myself for the freedom of my two compatriots and the jedi master (whose suffering allowed the jedi counsel to locate him through the force, which I revealed in negotiations) and I as a sign of good faith revealed the explosive belt buckle last resort plan and sincerely promised to give up all of my other precautions/failsafes (to include the new dragite gem lightsaber disguised as a glow rod) once my friends made the jump to lightspeed. So yeah, I volunteered to give up my massively tricked out lightsaber before even using it and every other hope of defeating the bbeg, and risking my character's own fall to the darkside, because it gets him a face to face with his former master. So despite having a plan for my character (i.e. how to best accomplish my objectives WITHIN the rules) my playstyle is primarily roleplaying/narrative based

Btw I didn't use ANY lightsaber during the last session, I relied on my modded s3 blaster pistol (an artist and added 2 hp and stripped it down to only 1 enc as the only mod, I'm angling toward ascetic), stun grenades, and the move force power (willpower/discipline is my second best skill check so using move to hurl a grenade gives my a better dice pool [2 yellow 2 green] and better range than throwing it or shooting the blaster [3 green]) it's a circa 600 xp consular: niman-disciple/martial artist, with a 3 3 2 3 4 2 attribute spread... but I just got my second dedication after that session which will make it 3 3 2 3 5 2, I have 2 force dice, enhance full set of defense upgrades, move basic/strength/range/hurl, seek basic for force powers, by the end of the approach 1 year old campaign which is winding down I hope to have taken everything I wanted from niman disciple and martial artist, we're talking about another campaign/story arch with the same characters and I'm planning on taking ascetic next). My character is the tank-sneak-monk of the party, definitely not the chief damage dealer, but I'm no slouch offensively with a lightsaber (all I've got going for me offensively with the saber is a good dice pool, mildly tricked out primary saber, sum djem, and precision strike) even though it's NOT my primary focus. The character's theme is shaolin monk meets jedi knight, and the build reflects that narrative theme. He's built intelligently WITHOUT being min maxed, but he is very strong defensively.

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

Wow. I'd really hate to hear what people think of my character.

I suspect he wouldn't hold his own in most people's campaigns.

My critique depends upon the amount of xp, I seriously doubt that you have over 1800 xp. Starting with 3 or 4 3's is not terrible. The thing with @Tramp Graphics build it suffers from "if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything" it has NO focus and is extremely xp inefficient.

7 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That's where we disagree. IF the saber isn't optimized for a given style, it can hurt the user; not literally injure him, but if the lightsaber isn't designed to work with a given set of talents, that saber can impede the character's use of the weapon. For instance, give a Makashi Duelist a saber optimized for a Shien Expert , and the Makashi Duelist would have a hard time using it effectively. However, give him a saber with a curved hilt, and optimized for Makashi, and he'll be much more likely to blow away any other Makashi Duelist of equal skill and talent.

@EliasWindrider and I have differing views on what would be considered an "efficient" build. He's more of a Min-Maxer whereas I'm more of a generalist.

I'm actually a max-meaner (highest average/fewest weaknesses) than a min-maxer (acquiring defects to achieve "perfection" in other areas is not my thing), so yeah I optimize but it's usually to achieve a jack of all trades master (as opposed to grand master) of a few, i.e. like effective generalist characters that also are pretty good at a few things.

8 hours ago, Vondy said:

Wow. I'd really hate to hear what people think of my character.

Normally I'd agree, but I've seen the stats in question.

44 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Normally I'd agree, but I've seen the stats in question.

Where?

2 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Where?

There was a Pbp recruitment thread up recently in this forum. If the campaign has started up, I think it's in the beginner game forum. Jedi Stars or something like that IIRC.

On 6/4/2018 at 4:45 PM, Archlyte said:

Isn't a Lightsaber good enough?

I like the EotE light saber and I feel like it does the job in every way I want it to without making it the Rod of Lordly Might . I like the idea of some minor customization but not having the lightsaber do things like Stunning opponents or acting as a Lightaber+Flamethrower combo via Burn.

Which version do you prefer in your games? 

I prefer the F&D Saber, specifically the rules from Endless Vigil, though I tweaked how modifying Kyber crystals works (more in line with the canon, more about spiritual connection to the crystal than physically modifying it since it's "living Kyber").

I have run 7 sessions of an Old Republic campaign that started in January. The majority of the group are Jedi Initiates that have advanced to the rank of Padawan. Their deciding test was their "gathering" and to keep it simple, they all gained an Ilum crystal when they passed (they were actually on Ilum, so definitely appropriate). I have a player that is heavily into crafting and mods and unfortunately in the timeframe of the game, there hasn't been a good moment for them to begin modify their lightsaber. There should be time for that during the next session though, so that will be good. They need the downtime anyway, since they got into a huge battle with a couple Sith warriors and a couple dozen Sith Troopers (2 PC's lost a limb, a third was blinded, everyone got incapacitated but their NPC allies managed to help them tip the battle in their favor. Now they are just barely conscious, heading into the underground root system of a massive tree to escape being shot to death by starships). Side note, large battles, while actually presenting a challenge to PC's, take a long time to resolve. It was a 4 hr session of just combat.

I enjoy the F&D sabers because variety is nice, the players get to have fun customizing their lightsabers and I can start them off with something a little weaker (Ilum crystal) before they head into late-game laser swords of doom.

In another campaign, the same player mentioned above managed to deal 72 damage in a single combat check with a mostly modified Ilum crystal standard hilt saber, using Saber Swarm and Hawkbat Swoop (18 damage 4 times, on the final enemy of a campaign, due to 10 soak and Cortosis weave, it still came out to 32 damage).

44 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

There was a Pbp recruitment thread up recently in this forum. If the campaign has started up, I think it's in the beginner game forum. Jedi Stars or something like that IIRC.

Ah. I think you probably have me confused with someone else. That wouldn't have been me.

My character is fairly long running, but has more breadth than depth. Arbiter-Niman-Sage. He's not designed to be "lightsaber master," per se. He is an very well-rounded and quintessential Consular. That said, Niman is designed to synergize with force powers and once you hit 4+ force dice its deceptively dangerous. If you go deep in Seek, for instance, you can tag an opponent as combat opens and have automatic triumps against them for the whole fight. That means every hit can be a crit and due to Force Assault every miss allows you to make a force move maneuver. Every single time. If your lightsaber skill is high enough you often get crits through your pool, allowing that triumph to do something else. Also, the Seek ability doesn't require you to commit force dice so you can drop one into Sense to make yourself even harder to hit. Having done that, you can just keep adding your remaining dice to your lightsaber attack pool via Draw Nearer. All of this is, of course, terribly inefficient compared to people who get their oomf from talents alone. He works with another Jedi is who is a focused saber jockey: Makashi-Seer-Shii-Cho. She has (significantly) less invested in her force rating or powers, but she is a total beast in a saber duel. I would not want to fight her.

6 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Ah. I think you probably have me confused with someone else. That wouldn't have been me.

My character is fairly long running, but has more breadth than depth. Arbiter-Niman-Sage. He's not designed to be "lightsaber master," per se. He is an very well-rounded and quintessential Consular. That said, Niman is designed to synergize with force powers and once you hit 4+ force dice its deceptively dangerous. If you go deep in Seek, for instance, you can tag an opponent as combat opens and have automatic triumps against them for the whole fight. That means every hit can be a crit and due to Force Assault every miss allows you to make a force move maneuver. Every single time. If your lightsaber skill is high enough you often get crits through your pool, allowing that triumph to do something else. Also, the Seek ability doesn't require you to commit force dice so you can drop one into Sense to make yourself even harder to hit. Having done that, you can just keep adding your remaining dice to your lightsaber attack pool via Draw Nearer. All of this is, of course, terribly inefficient compared to people who get their oomf from talents alone. He works with another Jedi is who is a focused saber jockey: Makashi-Seer-Shii-Cho. She has (significantly) less invested in her force rating or powers, but she is a total beast in a saber duel. I would not want to fight her.

Sorry if I was unclear. My response to you referred to EliasWindrider calling out TrampGraphics character as, how should one put it... poorly built. Normally, I'd say that isn't something you should do, but since TG has talked about his character on these forums, as well as posted the stats, I must concur with EW that the stats do not seem to match the vision TG has for his character.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with someone having a character that isn't optimized, but if you've set out to make an experienced badass veteran jedi master but your stats don't back that up, you need to either adjust your expectations, adjust your stats, or prepare to be disappointed when the stats fail to match up to your perceived skills.

15 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

You put someone with a good "character" build but with a sub-par or mediocre weapon, against someone with an optimized weapon, and he'll be slaughtered . Skill and talent alone are not enough, just as a good weapon alone is not enough. You need both a skilled and talented character with a weapon optimized for those skills and talents. You need the full package .

A prime example of this is in the now L egends Young Jedi Knights book Lightsabers . Tenel Ka builds her first lightsaber but with a faulty crystal, assuming it'll be "good enough" since she believed her skill would more than make up for any flaws in the weapon. Her folly cost her her arm .

How is a novel unrelated to this RPG other than through the SW brand a prime example of game (im)balance? This is entirely irrelevant.

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

Sorry if I was unclear. My response to you referred to EliasWindrider calling out TrampGraphics character as, how should one put it... poorly built. Normally, I'd say that isn't something you should do, but since TG has talked about his character on these forums, as well as posted the stats, I must concur with EW that the stats do not seem to match the vision TG has for his character.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with someone having a character that isn't optimized, but if you've set out to make an experienced badass veteran jedi master but your stats don't back that up, you need to either adjust your expectations, adjust your stats, or prepare to be disappointed when the stats fail to match up to your perceived skills.

Understood! And I agree, btw. There is a certain amount of "relativity" based on how the table / group functions to consider, however. In a game with hard-core optimizers and a game-master who maxes out the opposition the level of niche efficiency required to be "a badass" is higher. In a more relaxed game you can get away with more "inneficiency" in character designs and still be effective. Also, combat efficiency is one narrow slice of play. If that's what the group is focused on you had better be optimized for it, but you might end up being a one-trick pony. In a game / group that is heavier on narrative and roleplay, however, you will have to design for breadth rather than niche depth. As a result, I find comparisons of characters who "exist" in different campaigns to be apples to oranges rather than apples to apples. Context matters.

1 hour ago, nameless ronin said:

How is a novel unrelated to this RPG other than through the SW brand a prime example of game (im)balance? This is entirely irrelevant.

Oh. You must be new here. I see you've met Mr Graphics.

4 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

How is a novel unrelated to this RPG other than through the SW brand a prime example of game (im)balance? This is entirely irrelevant.

The novel shows an example of what can happen when someone neglects his or her weapon assuming that his or her skill will make up for it. That is what makes it relevant.

18 hours ago, penpenpen said:

And that's one of the reasons why even TLJ-Luke was a better teacher than NJO-Luke...

But now you're conflating a critically flawed weapon with a run of the mill weapon. Truth is, in this game system, skill beats gear when it comes to lightsabers. The basic lightsaber is powerful enough to deal with almost anything in the right hands.

Not at all. That's simply an example of a worst case scenario. However, high skill and talents alone are not enough, no matter what, just as optimized gear alone is not enough. You need both High skill and talent combined with gear optimized to make full use of that skill and talent.

18 hours ago, penpenpen said:

Sure, you can get some nifty bonuses by tricking out your glowstick, but nothing as powerful as some good talents and decent skill levels.

Cortosis weapons cancel sunder, but Djem So disarm is better anyway. Cortosis armor cancels breach but can still be sundered as per dev ruling, and damaged armor imposes setback/difficulty dice on things requiring mobility. I'd include melee combat in this.

Cortosis armor helps with damage mitigation but is also a magnet for sunder.

And without the "properly" tricked out gear, those talents and skills are not being used to their fullest, and this can have serious ramifications, particularly if you end up going against someone equally skilled and talented that did optimize his weapons and armor to suit him.

20 hours ago, penpenpen said:

Cortosis weapons cancel sunder, but Djem So disarm is better anyway. Cortosis armor cancels breach but can still be sundered as per dev ruling, and damaged armor imposes setback/difficulty dice on things requiring mobility. I'd include melee combat in this.

Cortosis armor helps with damage mitigation but is also a magnet for sunder.

Do you mean this Developer Answered Question?

Question Asked by Jegergryte :

I have a question concerning the Cortosis quality in the Star Wars RPG line. It states that weapons become immune to Sunder whereas armour becomes immune to Pierce and Breach. So, can you still Sunder an armour with the Cortosis quality?

Answered by Sam Stewart :

Rules as written, that is correct. You can Sunder the armor with Cortosis.

This is one of the rare occasions where the devs answer does not make any sense, IMO. The hole wording of sunder does imply, that it is meant to be used against weapons and equipment. Also the following chapter about weapon maintenance and repairing gear is only written with weapons or tools in mind. The "penalties for use" make no sense for armor. That is why I am quite sure, that the cortosis quality does not state that armor becomes immune to Sunder, because the Sunder weapon quality was never ment to effect armor anyway. We have Pierce and Breach for that.

Just because something does not explicitly say that you cannot do it, does not mean you can. Otherwise you open the door for countless loopholes.

And I guess the PCs that spent a lot of credits, XP and weeks of ingame time to craft their personal armor will be very unhappy, if 4 advantages are all it needs to destroy their armor.

I am curious, how many GMs here let sunder effect armor in their game and why?

Concerning weapon qualities: As long as we have Auto-Fire, do we really need to put so much thought into lightsabers being overpowered? ;-)